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Audio controlled power supply

Discussion in 'Power Electronics' started by Dr. Jenkins, Sep 26, 2011.

  1. Dr. Jenkins

    Dr. Jenkins

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    Sep 26, 2011
    Hello, I am just fledging in the world of electronics and been in need of a decent lab power supply. As I have just recently come across about 6 or so computer power supplies, my thoughts turned to those. Modding one for a simple DC output is simple enough, however, I would like to be able to generate AC, even if it is just chopped up DC. I was thinking about connecting a led controlling audio circuit between the green wire and ground. (Green is power controll. If current runs through it, then all the other wires put out their respected currents.) It would be simple enough, and I could modulate the DC output to match whatever I generate in an audio tone generator on my computer. Problem is though, I am lead to believe that the supply would take damage because of the chopping and it is designed to generate a steady current so I would not get the desired result.
    I would like to use the actual outputs and just modulate those, but all wires together produce a rather high amperage and I only am familiar with basic, low energy circuits.
    I am unsure how to approach this, so if I could recieve any help, I would greatly appreciate it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2011
  2. jackorocko

    jackorocko

    1,284
    1
    Apr 4, 2010
    well that is a very interesting idea, but wouldn't it be a lot easier to use a simple 555 timer to generate a square wave as the input to the control.

    Then maybe you could then use some form of filter to turn the resulting output wave into a sine wave. http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/showthread.php?t=12405

    Others with more experience might be able to provide more detail
     
  3. Dr. Jenkins

    Dr. Jenkins

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    0
    Sep 26, 2011
    I suppose that would work for some things, but I am needing a high amperage power supply for spliting water into 2H and O for a Science fair project. I am testing a hypothesis involving various frequencies having an effect on the rate of gas production. Being able to control exactly how many cycles a second using the audio system from my computer would be ideal as I could do a full range sweep of frequencies. But just while the subject is up, do you have any suggested high amperage 555 circuits? (By the way, one of the reasons that I chose a computer power supply is because it has quite a few built in failsafes. Makes it less likely something disasterous will happen when I make a mistake.)
     
  4. jackorocko

    jackorocko

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    1
    Apr 4, 2010
    Why would you need a high amperage 555 circuit? I was suggesting use that to control whether the PSU is on or off, then that would generate a square wave on the output of the PSU which you could filter into a sine. Do you even need a sine wave?

    edit: http://talkingelectronics.com/html/SquareWaveOsc.html But if you want to use your computer then be my guess. I am also not sure how much range you will get frequency wise using audio, as the range of audible noise is what 20hz to 20khz, can the equipment even produce frequencies outside of that range?
     
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2011
  5. barathbushan

    barathbushan

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    Sep 26, 2009
    I think all the wires tied together will not result in an increased amperage of current , at any given point of time the maximum current can be obtained at any one terminal only
    (5v or 12v) , depending on the maximum power rating of the smps
     
  6. jackorocko

    jackorocko

    1,284
    1
    Apr 4, 2010
    In a computer power supply every wire is capable of handling only so much current, add all those wires together and you get increased max current, up to the max rating on the label.

    Have you never seen the youtube videos on these things. Some will output 12V at 50A
     
  7. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

    25,191
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    Jan 21, 2010
    The problem is when you parallel multiple power supplies together.

    Switchmode power supplies may behave a little strangely if you do this.

    If it's for a science fair project, I wouldn't worry about maximum current, I would be concentrating on a known current and being able to fully describe the waveform.

    You need to be able to compare the input power to the volume of gas produced (more precisely the number of moles -- but under conditions of the same temperature and pressure, volume will work.

    Perhaps you can measure the time taken to fill an inverted (initially water filled) container of a known size?

    In any case, larger and larger currents don't sound like a factor since you state that you want to determine if frequency (not current density) has an effect.

    I would go a 555 possibly connected to one or more gate drivers, driving high current/low Rds mosfets. I would have a scope to visualise the waveform and 2 very good meters capable of measuring true RMS current and voltage.

    my 2c
     
  8. Dr. Jenkins

    Dr. Jenkins

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    0
    Sep 26, 2011
    Sorry Jackorocko, I meant to say high 555 circuit that controls high amperage, sorry. But yes, I see what you mean setting it up to control green wire power control on the PC power supply.

    And (*Steve*), that is a pretty good idea, but the project is slightly more extensive. I don’t want to go into detail, but it involves modifying a car fuel system, so I need a good volume of mass. But what you suggest would be a good proof of concept.
     
  9. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

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    Jan 21, 2010
    You should probably look at this then. If you're going to modify a car fuel system then it is pretty much established that you'll have to modify the power supplies to deal with the modial interaction of magneto reluctance and capacitive duractance.

    Keep up the good work Doctor Jenkins, and remember that though many may scoff, such companies as Rockwell and Chrysler have done a lot of work on this (and then they mysteriously stopped), and it was briefly reviewed in Time magazine before they too covered it up. It's pretty clear there's a conspiracy to make this seem like some sort of joke, which is what happens when things the Government and oil companies want kept secret actually get out.
     
  10. Digital_Angel_316

    Digital_Angel_316

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    Oct 1, 2011
    USP # 4,936,961
    Method for the Production of a Fuel Gas

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG]

    Process Steps:

    The sequence of the relative state of the water molecule and/or hydrogen/oxygen/other atoms:
    A. (ambient state) random
    B. Alignment of polar fields
    C. Polarization of molecule
    D. Molecular elongation
    E. Atom liberation by breakdown of covalent bond
    F. Release of gases

    In the process, the point of optimum gas release is reached at a circuit resonance. Water in the fuel cell is subjected to a pulsating, polar electric field produced by the electrical circuit whereby the water molecules are distended by reason of their subjection to electrical polar forces of the capacitor plates.

    Description of the Preferred Embodiment: In brief, the invention is a method of obtaining the release of a gas mixture including hydrogen on oxygen and other dissolved gases formerly entrapped in water, from water consisting of:

    (A) providing a capacitor, in which the water is included as a dielectric liquid between capacitor plates, in a resonant charging choke circuit that includes an inductance in series with the capacitor;

    (B) subjecting the capacitor to a pulsating, unipolar electric voltage field in which the polarity does not pass beyond an arbitrary ground, whereby the water molecules within the capacitor are subjected to a charge of the same polarity and the water molecules are distended by their subjection to electrical polar forces;

    (C) further subjecting in said capacitor to said pulsating electric field to achieve a pulse frequency such that the pulsating electric field induces a resonance within the water molecule;

    (D) continuing the application of the pulsating frequency to the capacitor cell after resonance occurs so that the energy level within the molecule is increased in cascading incremental steps in proportion to the number of pulses;

    (E) maintaining the charge of said capacitor during the application of the pulsing field, whereby the co-valent electrical bonding of the hydrogen and oxygen atoms within said molecules is destabilized such that the force of the electrical field applied, as the force is effective within the molecule, exceeds the bonding force of the molecule, and hydrogen and oxygen atoms are liberated from the molecule as elemental gases; and

    (F) collecting said hydrogen and oxygen gases, and any other gases that were formerly dissolved within the water, and discharging the collected gases as a fuel gas mixture.

    http://www.rexresearch.com/meyerhy/4936961.htm
     
  11. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

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    Jan 21, 2010
    Yeah, check this out.

    He covers capacitive duractance early on, but glosses over the magneto reluctance issue.

    Remember that you need to get your voltage converted to amperage.
     
  12. Digital_Angel_316

    Digital_Angel_316

    41
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    Oct 1, 2011

    Interesting video (and related ones) - thanks for the post. Interesting story of the
    person (Meyers) and the background of the design concept in related videos.

    Note that 'water' is not always 'pure' H2O, in fact, salt (NaCl) is often added in as an
    electrolyte and will create Chlorine Gas in hydrolysis.

    Sodium chloride (NaCl - aka - salt) dissolved in water is called brine. Electrolysis of
    brine gives hydrogen at the cathode and chlorine at the anode. You must know how to
    test for hydrogen and chlorine gas. Sodium hydroxide remains dissolved in the
    solution. This is an important industrial process.

    [​IMG]
    The reactions at each electrode are called half equations. The half equations are
    written so that the same number of electrons occur in each equation
    2H+ + 2e- [​IMG] H2 (hydrogen gas at the (-)cathode).

    2Cl- - 2e- [​IMG] Cl2 (chlorine gas at the (+)anode).​

    Hydrogen ions gain electrons (reduction) to form hydrogen atoms. The hydrogen atoms
    combine to form molecules of hydrogen gas. Chloride ions lose electrons (oxidation) to
    form chlorine atoms. The chlorine atoms combine to form molecules of chlorine gas.

    [​IMG][​IMG][​IMG][SIZE=-1]
    Salt dissolved in water is called BRINE.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=-1]When concentrated brine is electrolysed there are three useful products:[/SIZE]

    • [SIZE=-1]Hydrogen gas is given off at the cathode.[/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=-1]Chlorine gas is given off at the anode.[/SIZE]
    • [SIZE=-1]Sodium hydroxide is left in solution[/SIZE]
     
  13. Dr. Jenkins

    Dr. Jenkins

    4
    0
    Sep 26, 2011
    Referring to the first video, that made no sense whatsoever... Half of those words used do not even exist in my word processor’s dictionary. I would like to believe my functional knowledge of science is relatively decent, (I will always listen to evidence to the contrary though) but either he is abstracting something lightyears beyond me or it is fake. I am strongly leaning towards the latter. But still, it was pretty funny.

    But when people scoff at me and my farfetched ideas, I like to smile and thank them for what they say. People who think differently have always been scoffed, so it is a complement to me when I am.

    I never held conspiracy theories in much belief until recently when I started talking to a friend mine about this project. He is quite respectable and his fuel cell design are what inspired me to work on this particular project. A friend of his was working on something very similar to what I am thinking about. Supposedly he had managed to get a functional setup that ran a regular car solely off of hydrogen produced by several car batteries. When he was in the patent process, he was fined a massive sum of money and I believe he was incarcerated for a month or two for making illegal modifications to the ‘hazardous gas emissions system’. He was then told not to make his project public, otherwise he would face years in prison. Take this story however strongly you wish because, frankly, forums have a terrible knack for attracting nuts with impossible stories. But for me, since this comes from a respectable, quasi first person source, it is very believable.

    It is sad there are so many shams on the internet, it is even sadder that so many people believe them.
     
  14. (*steve*)

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

    25,191
    2,693
    Jan 21, 2010
    The problem I have is that as soon as someone refers to a device used to electrolyse water as a fuel cell, I presume they've gone all Stanley Meyer on me.

    And I presume that because redefining words with scientific meanings to mean other things (that are already perfectly described using other words) is a hallmark of pseudo-science.

    A problem with conspiracy theories is that some of them are probably true. (But even those get over-inflated). The rest just sound good enough for people to believe. And even if you have to be totally gullible to believe them, you belief gets strengthened by people arguing either in favour or against them. They become self perpetuating.

    And such is the myth of perpetual motion (often renamed using the new-age term "over-unity") that although there has never been a single perpetual motion machine demonstrated, people keep trying. They are convinced that, not only it is possible, but that they are repeating the success of others. Some, perhaps realising their folly, yet too proud to admit it, will effectively scam a future generation. Such is the case of Stanley Meyer.

    And such is the reason for my sig.
     
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