Attempting to identify device that looks like bridge rectifier

[Sam Goldwasser]

Someone asked me about the following. It looks to me like a bridge
rectifier but either it is something else or died in a really strange way:

"I'm repairing a desktop centrifuge (Eppendorf 5417).
There is a component on it which is completely unfamiliar to me.
Web searching and manufacturers' searching has turned up nothing.

The device is marked as though it were a diode bridge, but it doesn't test
out like it is composed of diodes. Here it is:

0.8"
|---------------|
| JEL |
| JC201SC | 0.6"
| 1.5A250VAC H4 |
| ~ + - |
|---------------|
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |

Physically, the package is a "box" .6" h, .8" w, .3" thickness. It is a
SIP type mounting, with all 4 pins at the bottom.

But it doesn't test like a bridge either based on a DMM or AC input."

Any information on what it might be if not a regular bridge would be
appreciated. I don't need to know how to test it.

Thanks.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
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[that parrot chap]

Someone asked me about the following. It looks to me like a bridge
rectifier but either it is something else or died in a really strange way:

"I'm repairing a desktop centrifuge (Eppendorf 5417).
There is a component on it which is completely unfamiliar to me.
Web searching and manufacturers' searching has turned up nothing.

The device is marked as though it were a diode bridge, but it doesn't test
out like it is composed of diodes. Here it is:

0.8"
|---------------|
| JEL |
| JC201SC | 0.6"
| 1.5A250VAC H4 |
| ~ + - |
|---------------|
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |

Physically, the package is a "box" .6" h, .8" w, .3" thickness. It is a
SIP type mounting, with all 4 pins at the bottom.

But it doesn't test like a bridge either based on a DMM or AC input."

Any information on what it might be if not a regular bridge would be
appreciated. I don't need to know how to test it.

Thanks.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header is ignored.
To contact me, please use the feedback form on the S.E.R FAQ Web sites.

sam,
I am as sure as hell its just a bridge, hows it configured in the cct?
could be that its F****d giving the odd readings!

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

sam,
I am as sure as hell its just a bridge, hows it configured in the cct?
could be that its F****d giving the odd readings!

Yes, I know, it looks like a bridge, talks like bridge, walks like a bridge,
quacks like a bridge. I can't get any more info out of the guy on how it's
hooked up other than that the input is 60 VAC and the output on DC looks
like a couple hundred mV and on AC, a messed up 30 V p-p sinewave.

Quite possible it's just blown in a strange way.

Thanks.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header is ignored.
To contact me, please use the feedback form on the S.E.R FAQ Web sites.

 

[that parrot chap]

Yes, I know, it looks like a bridge, talks like bridge, walks like a bridge,
quacks like a bridge. I can't get any more info out of the guy on how it's
hooked up other than that the input is 60 VAC and the output on DC looks
like a couple hundred mV and on AC, a messed up 30 V p-p sinewave.

Quite possible it's just blown in a strange way.

Thanks.

i guess its a bridge then, i have seen them that shape here, i guess
its screwed up in a resistive way.....unless them evil aliens have
created something to confuse us all

 

[Franc Zabkar]

Someone asked me about the following. It looks to me like a bridge
rectifier but either it is something else or died in a really strange way:

"I'm repairing a desktop centrifuge (Eppendorf 5417).
There is a component on it which is completely unfamiliar to me.
Web searching and manufacturers' searching has turned up nothing.

The device is marked as though it were a diode bridge, but it doesn't test
out like it is composed of diodes. Here it is:

0.8"
|---------------|
| JEL |
| JC201SC | 0.6"
| 1.5A250VAC H4 |
| ~ + - |
|---------------|
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |

It looks like a solid state relay.

See http://www.jelsystem.co.jp/english/products/ssr_1.html

This part looks similar, but is rated at 16A:
http://www.jelsystem.co.jp/english/pdf2/JC216.pdf


- Franc Zabkar

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

That's got to be it! Thanks so much.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header is ignored.
To contact me, please use the feedback form on the S.E.R FAQ Web sites.

 

[Bill Jeffrey]

Yes, I know, it looks like a bridge, talks like bridge, walks like a bridge,
quacks like a bridge. I can't get any more info out of the guy on how it's
hooked up other than that the input is 60 VAC and the output on DC looks
like a couple hundred mV and on AC, a messed up 30 V p-p sinewave.

Quite possible it's just blown in a strange way.

Thanks.

-------------------------------------------
Sam -

The fact that there is next-to-no DC component on the output, but there
is a substantial AC component, suggests that one or more bridge diodes
have shorted. One thing you need to know is whether he measured the
output with any kind of load applied, or with nothing but a meter or
scope applied (ie, open-circuit). As you know, a hi-Z meter or scope
can indicate all sorts of strange things when measuring a line-powered
circuit without a load. Adding, say, a 1K resistor between the output
terminals can really settle things down, measurement-wise.

Bill Jeffrey

 

[Bill Jeffrey]

Sam Goldwasser wrote:


Sam - I'm having trouble with the idea of a solid state relay. Now
first I will grant you that if it has failed, it is hard to know what
you are looking for and how to interpret what you see. But if it is an
SSR rather than a bridge, the input/output relationships are reversed.
In a bridge, the ~ terminals are the input, and the +/- terminals are
the output. If it is an SSR, the +/- terminals are the input, and the ~
terminals are the (switched) output. This changes your interpretation of
what you see when you try to trouble-shoot it.

If this thing IS an SSR, the stuff he is seeing implies some very
unlikely things. For example, if he puts 60 VAC across the ~ terminals,
and gets 30 VAC across the +/- terminals, then it means that the
physical isolation between input and output has broken down and shorted
over. That seems very unlikely to me - the gap is a physical break,
insulated with glass, and rated for several thousand volts flashover
voltage. Beyond that, the continued presence of AC on the +/-
terminals implies that not only has it flashed over, but that some
electrically-conductive material has taken residence in the glass gap
between input and output. Hmmmm, no matter what happened, I'm not
seeing it failing this way.

If it is an SSR, and if it failed, then most likely it failed from
overcurrent on the output (SCR/triac) side. [I know, not necessarily,
please hold the pointless flames!] In this case, the input (+/-) side
should still look like a diode or diode/resistor. Does he see this
characteristic on the +/- terminals? Didn't sound like it - or maybe he
didn't look for it.

On the other hand, if he did fry the LED on the input side, then the +/-
terminals should look like a complete open circuit. Furthermore, he
should be able to put AC on the ~ terminals, and see NOTHING on the +/-
terminals.

Without more info, you can't be sure, but I'm still betting on a fried
4-diode bridge.

Please let us know what the final answer is.

Bill J

 

[Michael Black]

Sam Goldwasser wrote:


Sam - I'm having trouble with the idea of a solid state relay. Now
first I will grant you that if it has failed, it is hard to know what
you are looking for and how to interpret what you see. But if it is an
SSR rather than a bridge, the input/output relationships are reversed.
In a bridge, the ~ terminals are the input, and the +/- terminals are
the output. If it is an SSR, the +/- terminals are the input, and the ~
terminals are the (switched) output. This changes your interpretation of
what you see when you try to trouble-shoot it.

If this thing IS an SSR, the stuff he is seeing implies some very
unlikely things. For example, if he puts 60 VAC across the ~ terminals,
and gets 30 VAC across the +/- terminals, then it means that the
physical isolation between input and output has broken down and shorted
over. That seems very unlikely to me - the gap is a physical break,
insulated with glass, and rated for several thousand volts flashover
voltage. Beyond that, the continued presence of AC on the +/-
terminals implies that not only has it flashed over, but that some
electrically-conductive material has taken residence in the glass gap
between input and output. Hmmmm, no matter what happened, I'm not
seeing it failing this way.

If it is an SSR, and if it failed, then most likely it failed from
overcurrent on the output (SCR/triac) side. [I know, not necessarily,
please hold the pointless flames!] In this case, the input (+/-) side
should still look like a diode or diode/resistor. Does he see this
characteristic on the +/- terminals? Didn't sound like it - or maybe he
didn't look for it.

On the other hand, if he did fry the LED on the input side, then the +/-
terminals should look like a complete open circuit. Furthermore, he
should be able to put AC on the ~ terminals, and see NOTHING on the +/-
terminals.

Without more info, you can't be sure, but I'm still betting on a fried
4-diode bridge.

If it's come out of a piece of equipment, then surely context can help
determine what it is.

Obviously if it's a bridge (and as part of a power supply) there's going
to be a nice filter capacitor on the output (and AC on the input, for that
matter). Even knowing what it comes out is bound to give some sort of
indication; there's no reason for it to be a solid state relay if
the piece of equipment has no reason for such a thing.

Michael

 

[Sam Goldwasser]

Sam Goldwasser wrote:

0.8"
|---------------|
| JEL |
| JC201SC | 0.6"
| 1.5A250VAC H4 |
| ~ + - |
|---------------|
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |

It looks like a solid state relay.

Sam - I'm having trouble with the idea of a solid state relay. Now
first I will grant you that if it has failed, it is hard to know what
you are looking for and how to interpret what you see. But if it is an
SSR rather than a bridge, the input/output relationships are reversed.
In a bridge, the ~ terminals are the input, and the +/- terminals are
the output. If it is an SSR, the +/- terminals are the input, and the ~
terminals are the (switched) output. This changes your interpretation of
what you see when you try to trouble-shoot it.

If this thing IS an SSR, the stuff he is seeing implies some very
unlikely things. For example, if he puts 60 VAC across the ~ terminals,
and gets 30 VAC across the +/- terminals, then it means that the
physical isolation between input and output has broken down and shorted
over. That seems very unlikely to me - the gap is a physical break,
insulated with glass, and rated for several thousand volts flashover
voltage. Beyond that, the continued presence of AC on the +/-
terminals implies that not only has it flashed over, but that some
electrically-conductive material has taken residence in the glass gap
between input and output. Hmmmm, no matter what happened, I'm not
seeing it failing this way.

If it is an SSR, and if it failed, then most likely it failed from
overcurrent on the output (SCR/triac) side. [I know, not necessarily,
please hold the pointless flames!] In this case, the input (+/-) side
should still look like a diode or diode/resistor. Does he see this
characteristic on the +/- terminals? Didn't sound like it - or maybe he
didn't look for it.

On the other hand, if he did fry the LED on the input side, then the +/-
terminals should look like a complete open circuit. Furthermore, he
should be able to put AC on the ~ terminals, and see NOTHING on the +/-
terminals.

Without more info, you can't be sure, but I'm still betting on a fried
4-diode bridge.

If it's come out of a piece of equipment, then surely context can help
determine what it is.

Obviously if it's a bridge (and as part of a power supply) there's going
to be a nice filter capacitor on the output (and AC on the input, for that
matter). Even knowing what it comes out is bound to give some sort of
indication; there's no reason for it to be a solid state relay if
the piece of equipment has no reason for such a thing.

It wasn't removed, it's still in place, thus some of the confusion.
FWIW, it's a tabletop centrifuge and the relay or whatever is probably
part of the braking circuit.

The measurements were in-circuit with the centrifuge running, I think.

In addition, it could be good. Not being able to identify it means not
being able to really test it.

The part numbers via that link match too closely to be a coincidence!

Thanks for everyone's comments. I'll let you guys know if the thing
survives.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header is ignored.
To contact me, please use the feedback form on the S.E.R FAQ Web sites.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

Sam Goldwasser wrote:


0.8"
|---------------|
| JEL |
| JC201SC | 0.6"
| 1.5A250VAC H4 |
| ~ + - |
|---------------|
| | | |
| | | |
| | | |

It looks like a solid state relay.

Sam - I'm having trouble with the idea of a solid state relay. Now
first I will grant you that if it has failed, it is hard to know what
you are looking for and how to interpret what you see. But if it is an
SSR rather than a bridge, the input/output relationships are reversed.
In a bridge, the ~ terminals are the input, and the +/- terminals are
the output. If it is an SSR, the +/- terminals are the input, and the ~
terminals are the (switched) output. This changes your interpretation of
what you see when you try to trouble-shoot it.

If this thing IS an SSR, the stuff he is seeing implies some very
unlikely things. For example, if he puts 60 VAC across the ~ terminals,
and gets 30 VAC across the +/- terminals, then it means that the
physical isolation between input and output has broken down and shorted
over. That seems very unlikely to me - the gap is a physical break,
insulated with glass, and rated for several thousand volts flashover
voltage. Beyond that, the continued presence of AC on the +/-
terminals implies that not only has it flashed over, but that some
electrically-conductive material has taken residence in the glass gap
between input and output. Hmmmm, no matter what happened, I'm not
seeing it failing this way.

If it is an SSR, and if it failed, then most likely it failed from
overcurrent on the output (SCR/triac) side. [I know, not necessarily,
please hold the pointless flames!] In this case, the input (+/-) side
should still look like a diode or diode/resistor. Does he see this
characteristic on the +/- terminals? Didn't sound like it - or maybe he
didn't look for it.

On the other hand, if he did fry the LED on the input side, then the +/-
terminals should look like a complete open circuit. Furthermore, he
should be able to put AC on the ~ terminals, and see NOTHING on the +/-
terminals.

Without more info, you can't be sure, but I'm still betting on a fried
4-diode bridge.

If it's come out of a piece of equipment, then surely context can help
determine what it is.

Obviously if it's a bridge (and as part of a power supply) there's going
to be a nice filter capacitor on the output (and AC on the input, for that
matter). Even knowing what it comes out is bound to give some sort of
indication; there's no reason for it to be a solid state relay if
the piece of equipment has no reason for such a thing.

It wasn't removed, it's still in place, thus some of the confusion.
FWIW, it's a tabletop centrifuge and the relay or whatever is probably
part of the braking circuit.

The measurements were in-circuit with the centrifuge running, I think.

In addition, it could be good. Not being able to identify it means not
being able to really test it.

The part numbers via that link match too closely to be a coincidence!

The part appears to be a Triac with an optically coupled gate. It may
be used for motor speed control rather than merely as an on/off
switch.


- Franc Zabkar