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Art of Electronics Rave - NON Politix! :-)

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Rich Grise, Jan 13, 2005.

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  1. Richard H.

    Richard H. Guest

    Look into Delphi from Borland - a Pascal VB-style platform. GUI
    controls are drag & drop, enter/exit of event routines are automatically
    generated - you only have to write the "meat" of your code, using Pascal.
     
  2. Nico Coesel

    Nico Coesel Guest

    Dual monitor makes live a lot easier indeed.
    Be sure to check the Eizo flatpanels too! Eizo is Rolls Royce when it
    comes to monitors. They design their monitors to give an optimal
    image.
     
  3. I've got it somewhere. 39k or something insanely small like that! It
    was fast on a 4.77 MHz 8088, let alone a 3GHz P4. But I don't use
    Pascal enough these days to find it really fast to use.


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  4. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith Guest

    If you were designing a relatively big object-oriented program, or if you
    wanted an elegantly designed language in the C++/Java tradition,[/QUOTE]

    I would not call C++ or Java "elegantly designed"

    C++ is mostly C with the object-oriented stuff added on. As a result it
    is a bit of a kludge and had to retain a lot of the things that are
    troublesome in C.

    Both C++ and Java can't pass a complex[1] type by value they always have
    to pass them by reference. This means that a function that increments one
    of its passed parameters may or may not effect the caller's value
    depending on the type of the variable.

    [1] Complex as in things like structures not simple things like "int".
    I agree that Basic is easier to learn peicemeal than C++ and Java. Any
    basic that plays with objects tends to end up complicated. Things like
    Visual Basic are about as hard to learn as C++ if you want to do anything
    complex with them.
     
  5. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith Guest

    I've got Borland Pascal 7 and fear the day that Microsoft finally makes a
    version of Windows it won't run under. I have a huge collection of
    routines that I've written in it. One nice thing is that most of them
    will compile to run natively on Linux.
     
  6. mc

    mc Guest

    Nor would I! C# is C++ redone... C++ gone sane...
     
  7. Joel Kolstad

    Joel Kolstad Guest

    I'm not sure if this is a proper characterization either. Yes, C++ adds on
    OO stuff, but there's are very few things that I can think of that isn't
    elegant about how the additions were done. It is true that some people
    claming to be performing 'object oriented programming' end up with a a
    horrible mismash or OO stuff and 'regular' C, but this has more to do with
    the programmer's knowledge and desires than the language itself.

    You could convince me that some of the more adavanced template stuff and
    RTTI in C++ gets a little messy. :)

    Before there was C++, there were several 'C like' object oriented languages
    as well, but breaking compatibility with traditional C seemed to be far too
    high of a price to pay to get any widespread adoption.
    This is not true, C++ can certainly pass complex types by value. I don't
    know about Java.
    Well, in any language that supports both 'call by reference' and 'call by
    value,' this statement is true. However, the declaration of the function
    makes it clear not only whether or not the data going into it is call by
    value or call by reference, but also explitctly what the called routine can
    do with that data (using the 'const' construct.)
    Visual BASIC is noticeably limited compared to something like C++ when it
    comes to objects, but it's still a marked improvement over 'old school'
    BASIC with no objects at all. There are some other BASICs out there that
    are arguably more sophisticated than Visual BASIC, but given the later's
    prevalence, it's a very good platform for anybody to use.
    Mmm... perhaps so, but I'd have to say that 'advanced Visual BASIC' is
    usually all about 'how do I hack the language to make it do something it
    really wasn't intended to do?' whereas 'advanced C++' is more about 'what's
    a clever way to make use of the more advanced _language_ constructs that's
    often non-obvious to beginners?' A quick check on the table of contents of
    books on, e.g., Amazon bears this out!

    I really do believe that most people, as they become more advanced in Visual
    BASIC, tend to start seeing limitations in what they can 'easily' do,
    whereas with C++ they tend to start seeing new ways to make old things even
    easier (if more abstract). I know several programmers who like to do their
    GUIs in VB because it is very fast and easy to get the job done, but leave
    the 'data processing' to C++.

    ---Joel Kolstad
     
  8. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    [snip]

    IIRC, VB requires "libraries" to be available to run executables.
    Does PowerBasic, or can it create "stand-alone" executables?

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  9. Guy Macon

    Guy Macon Guest

    PowerBASIC requires no run-time libraries. I would need to check
    the docs, but I think that there is a way to make it do things that
    way if you really want it to, but that certainly isn't the normal
    way of using it. Normally you generate insanely small and blazingly
    fast stanalone *.exe files.
     
  10. I'll bet you have a version of VB already on your machine. Look in any of
    the MS office applications and you'll find a somewhat stripped down version.

    Charles
     
  11. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    The question is: Does PowerBasic require "libraries", or can it create
    "stand-alone" executables?

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  12. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest


    Nope. It either runs in the development environment (F9), or it
    compiles to a single standalone .exe file. On a modern PC, all that
    happens before you can take your finger off the mouse.

    You can, if you want, link in other stuff, call external routines in
    other languages, include inline assembly, do direct i/o (if Windows
    lets you), locate the *address* of all your variables or code. PB
    tries to let you do anything, as opposed to Windows apps that try to
    stop you.

    I wrote one little app that locates an SBS PCI-VME interface card,
    initializes it, and drags it down into the real addressing space, so
    that I can directly access all the VME registers as an array. You can
    dimension an array *at* a physical address. It's great for debugging
    PCI interfaces.


    I just wrote and compiled the "hello, world" program. Took way less
    than a minute, and compiled to just under 15K.

    Type

    pb hello to enter the PB editor

    PRINT "HELLO, WORLD" ' that's the whole program

    click <compile> <dest:exe> <compile>

    click <file> <exit>

    and HELLO.EXE is there.


    Really, try it. It's fabulous for engineering math. I'd never consider
    using a programmable calculator again.


    John
     
  13. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 13:38:18 -0800, John Larkin

    [snip]
    That's what I'm after. Also I'd like to develop a "smart" automatic
    text editor that opens a file and changes syntax from HSpice to PSpice
    ;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  14. Pig Bladder

    Pig Bladder Guest

    Once again, a victim of your own plonk-happiness - you missed a perfectly
    valid answer from Guy Macon.

    Cheers!
     
  15. Nico Coesel

    Nico Coesel Guest

    It seems you are a long time user of Powerbasic. I have used it in the
    past but other languages pushed it to the background due to the lack
    of support of Windows. I know it is bloody fast though. How is the
    current version? Did you ever try to write a Windows GUI based
    application with it?
     
  16. Nico Coesel

    Nico Coesel Guest

    Whatever you do, don't use Delphi (Pascal). You're walking into a dead
    end street with Delhpi. Pascal and C are quite similar when it comes
    to the structure of the language, but C is more complete and elegant
    as a language. Borland / Inprise turned Delphi in some sort of a C
    clone anyway so why settle for less if you can use the real thing: C
     
  17. Nico Coesel

    Nico Coesel Guest

    Hmm, those copyright laws are very strict. Over here everyone is
    allowed to make copies of anything which was published for personal
    use (FYI: this includes music and films). Every library has at least
    one copying machine.
     
  18. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest


    I've written a few programs that allow me to program various uPs using
    DEC syntax but actually run a gross 6805 or 68K assembler. One program
    converts my beautiful source into something the dumb assembler can
    process, and another takes the .LUG (ugly listing) file and makes a
    beautiful listing with table of contents and page titles and all that
    stuff. I've also hacked a number of script interpreters to make it
    easy to program our VME modules without having to work at register
    level.

    Buy it, get unhappy and confused for a day or two, and then you'll
    love it. As I get older I seem to have to force myself to do new
    stuff, especially learn new software tools, but the pain is usually
    brief. Except for Word, of course, where the pain is ongoing.

    John
     
  19. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest


    NO! I mostly use the 16-bit DOS version, or the 32-bit Console
    Compiler if I need huge arrays or have to do TCP/IP or whatever. There
    is a third version, the Windows version, but I haven't tried it. It
    allows one to write true Win apps, and DLLs too, if you care for that
    sort of thing.

    John
     
  20. Nico Coesel

    Nico Coesel Guest

    I always write the low level stuff in C. If I need something GUI, I
    use VB which I'm not totally happy with. I think I'll try to download
    the PB for windows and see what it does.
     
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