AP placement

[D Yuniskis]

Hi,

I'm on a crusade to hide the various bits of electronic
kit that would (currently) otherwise be visible.

AP is something that *rarely* needs to be touched.
I'll PoE power it so I can control that aspect
remotely.

I would *like* to tuck it up into the ceiling
(no attic, here... so "ceiling" is just the
"height" of the ceiling joists). But, I need to
be able to access it *if* something goes south...

Most of the convenient places to hide it (which
would be somewhat accessible afterwards) are
proximate to the HVAC ductwork.

This can't be A Good Thing for RF. :< Any suggestions
on criteria for *best* placement so I don't have to try
it out in N different locations? (e.g., I assume I
would NOT want the ductwork in the expected signal path)

Or, should I just look for an alternative location?

Thx,
--don

 

[Adrian C]

Hi,

I'm on a crusade to hide the various bits of electronic
kit that would (currently) otherwise be visible.

AP is something that *rarely* needs to be touched.
I'll PoE power it so I can control that aspect
remotely.

I would *like* to tuck it up into the ceiling
(no attic, here... so "ceiling" is just the
"height" of the ceiling joists). But, I need to
be able to access it *if* something goes south...

Most of the convenient places to hide it (which
would be somewhat accessible afterwards) are
proximate to the HVAC ductwork.

Don't think that will be a problem - it might even help. Radio signals
at that frequency will bounce of hard surfaces and 'ping-pong' to other
places. Think of the ways that light distributes.

However, if your wireless kit is generally the other side of the
metalwork and away from the Access Point, than that might be an
shielding issue.

Easy thing to experiment with though.

Failing that, why not disguise it as a pot plant?

 

[PeterD]

WTF is AP?

Access Point.

 

[Joerg]

If you want to hide something, get a politician to do that for you and
lie about it at the same time.

Better yet, get a banker to do that and turn the AP into a derivative to
make it go away. Well, at least for a few years ...

 

[Joerg]

Hi,

I'm on a crusade to hide the various bits of electronic
kit that would (currently) otherwise be visible.

AP is something that *rarely* needs to be touched.
I'll PoE power it so I can control that aspect
remotely.

I would *like* to tuck it up into the ceiling
(no attic, here... so "ceiling" is just the
"height" of the ceiling joists). But, I need to
be able to access it *if* something goes south...

Most of the convenient places to hide it (which
would be somewhat accessible afterwards) are
proximate to the HVAC ductwork.

This can't be A Good Thing for RF. :< Any suggestions
on criteria for *best* placement so I don't have to try
it out in N different locations? (e.g., I assume I
would NOT want the ductwork in the expected signal path)

Or, should I just look for an alternative location?

Mind the heat. It's amazing how much can build up in an enclosed space.
Why not put it up on a cabinet where nobody can see?

 

[Joerg]

That's very true, especially as SOHO networking stuff is built cheap and
runs hot. During 5 years, I lost two modems, three routers and AP
apparently because of overheating.

I was more fortunate. The old DSL modem is over 10 years old, the router
as well and the WLAN router is maybe 6 years or so. All running nicely.

Of course, there are certain stores I'll never buy from.

 

[Martin Brown]

They tend to assume free airflow and don't like being in the sun.

That's very true, especially as SOHO networking stuff is built cheap and
runs hot. During 5 years, I lost two modems, three routers and AP
apparently because of overheating.

What do you do to them?

Place on a S facing windowsill with a glass box over them or something?

My oldest cable modem managed to gradually cook its power supply to the
point where the paper label was a worryingly dark shade of charred
brown. But I only noticed this when we moved out of the property.

Apart from that one mine run fairly cool ~40C at a steady 10-12W even
sat over a radiator. I wish it would drop to lower power when no WiFi
connections are active. But I leave it on continuously. Placement is
more determined by coverage and some very thick internal stone walls.

The only modem I ever lost died from a nearby lightning strike that also
destroyed the phone. Boca 9k6 modem and it was amazingly repairable.

Regards,
Martin Brown

 

[Joerg]

Nothing special. Just regular use.

Speadstream 5360: gradually died
Dlink DI604: started glitching
Dlink DI614: started glitching
Belkin 6130: ethernet phy gradually died
2Wire 2700: modem killed by lightning
Netgear DGN2000: all phy channels gradually died one after another

Where did you buy these?

 

[D Yuniskis]

Don't think that will be a problem - it might even help. Radio signals
at that frequency will bounce of hard surfaces and 'ping-pong' to other
places. Think of the ways that light distributes.

However, if your wireless kit is generally the other side of the
metalwork and away from the Access Point, than that might be an
shielding issue.

Exactly. So, half the house is in shadow. Unless I can mount
a second antenna on the "other" side of the ductwork... (?)

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Vladimir,

Put AP under your desk and forget about it.

My "desk" is a U-shaped tabletop of ~45sq ft. I kid
you not when I say there is *no* space under it! :<
The undersides of the worksurface have power strips,
USB hubs, speakers, etc.

And, it's located too far to the front of the house;
the AP should be either central or towards the rear
(for coverage of the back yard)

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Joerg,

Mind the heat. It's amazing how much can build up in an enclosed space.

The devices I am evaluating are intended for use in 50C
and 70C ambient.

Why not put it up on a cabinet where nobody can see?

No "cabinets" (aside from in the garage -- and those are
metal). Closets tend to be full of "other" stuff -- things
that I *need* to be able to access. AP is not one of those
things (sort of like hot water heater -- you need access
to it only when things go wrong)

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Vladimir,

That's very true, especially as SOHO networking stuff is built cheap and
runs hot. During 5 years, I lost two modems, three routers and AP
apparently because of overheating.

I'm looking at a Cisco AP for "industrial" use (warehouse, etc).
And a Ubiquity AP intended for outdoor use. Designed for higher
temps -- 50C and 70C, respectively.

I (personally) haven't seen outdoor temps above 45-47C.
But, stuffing something in the ceiling would no doubt beat
that handily! I.e., the Cisco would probably have to go
in a *wall* instead of ceiling...

 

[Joerg]

Hi Joerg,


The devices I am evaluating are intended for use in 50C
and 70C ambient.

You'd be surprised how fast you'll blow past 70C in summer when the AP
is in an almost non-vented small space with insulation on 4-5 side. It's
a perfect recipe to shorten the life of all electrolytics in there.

No "cabinets" (aside from in the garage -- and those are
metal). Closets tend to be full of "other" stuff -- things
that I *need* to be able to access. AP is not one of those
things (sort of like hot water heater -- you need access
to it only when things go wrong)

The AP would be on top of the cabinet, you can still access everything
inside the cabinets.

 

[Joerg]

Hi Vladimir,



My "desk" is a U-shaped tabletop of ~45sq ft. I kid
you not when I say there is *no* space under it! :<
The undersides of the worksurface have power strips,
USB hubs, speakers, etc.

Time to clean up? Mine has channels built in and for the lab benches I
built some recently, mostly to be able to have dog pillows underneath
and so you can vacuum. No cables or other stuff on the ground.

And, it's located too far to the front of the house;
the AP should be either central or towards the rear
(for coverage of the back yard)

Or hang reflectors behind. Central would be better though. How about on
a small shelf mounted above a doorway?

 

[Joerg]

Local stores. Some at Staples, others at BestBuy.

Ok, those are reputable stores. That's strange. My stuff is Westell, SMC
and Linksys. No problems. <knocking on wood>

 

[Charlie E.]

Time to clean up? Mine has channels built in and for the lab benches I
built some recently, mostly to be able to have dog pillows underneath
and so you can vacuum. No cables or other stuff on the ground.




Or hang reflectors behind. Central would be better though. How about on
a small shelf mounted above a doorway?

A small, wall mounted (or in-wall, even better!) cabinet, in a linen
closet or coat closet is usually best. Keeps it in the controlled
environment of the house. They make several types of plasitc
cabinets, even medicine type cabinets, that are good for this!

Charlie

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Joerg,

Time to clean up? Mine has channels built in and for the lab benches I
built some recently, mostly to be able to have dog pillows underneath
and so you can vacuum. No cables or other stuff on the ground.

I keep most of my machines (this is office space, not lab space)
under the tabletops. Currently, two dual Xeon 1.4G servers (W2Ks
and NetBSD), a 3G dual-core workstation (XP), a Tatung SB-1000
(Solaris) and a dinkly little 1G Piii that serves as my bastion
host. Plus, a duplexed LJ4M+ and a color Phaser 560, 16 port
switch, two DLT8000 10x libraries, two UPS's and a subwoofer.

Power cords "hang" from the underside of the tables (6 x 6 outlet
strips). But, some cord ends up lying on the floor as well.
And, all the network cabling (there are 12 drops in that area
alone) and SCSI cables (4 scanners, disk arrays, tape transports
and libraries) as well as USB cables (printers, video and audio
accessories, etc.), serial cables, etc.

"Clean up" would be ineffective unless I could *toss* a fair
amount of this stuff... :-(

[and that doesn't count what's "off-line"]

Or hang reflectors behind. Central would be better though. How about on
a small shelf mounted above a doorway?

I suggested that for the doorway in the laundry room. My
suggestion was met with a "Frown of Displeasure" :-/

 

[D Yuniskis]

Your doorbell annunciator is in a central location; a
WiFi AP can go there and get good broadcast coverage.

"I'm on a crusade to hide the various bits of electronic
kit that would (currently) otherwise be visible."

The doorbell and thermostat were the first "offenders"
to go! :>

The wall space inside a closet over
the closet door is rarely scrutinized.

We have no closets in the center of the house. Everything is
"open" living area. I am contemplating the *floor* under the
bottom shelf in one of the pantries as a possible location
for some of the kit that I *can't* "hide". I don't think that
would be a good location for an AP, though.

Windows with drapes have a bit of wall space behind the folds that is
likewise out of sight.

I see you live alone?? ;-)

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Joerg,

You'd be surprised how fast you'll blow past 70C in summer when the AP
is in an almost non-vented small space with insulation on 4-5 side. It's
a perfect recipe to shorten the life of all electrolytics in there.

Highest temperature I've measured in this space was 141F (~60C)
on a 110F Summer day. I figure a device *intended* for use
in direct sunlight would probably be OK in such a place.

The AP would be on top of the cabinet, you can still access everything
inside the cabinets.

If I were to put it in the garage, I could just fasten it to
the ceiling (still an eyesore). But, not an ideal location
there. Best spot would be in an interior wall. But, walls are
hard to gain access to "discretely". An access panel would
be just as much of an eyesore as the device itself. :<

Maybe I can tinker with one of the skylights and hide it
in the space "beside" same.

 

[D Yuniskis]

Hi Charlie,

A small, wall mounted (or in-wall, even better!) cabinet, in a linen
closet or coat closet is usually best. Keeps it in the controlled
environment of the house. They make several types of plasitc
cabinets, even medicine type cabinets, that are good for this!

That just changes the problem to "hiding a cabinet" instead
of "hiding an AP". :<

*Behind* a medicine cabinet might be a good option (since access
would be hidden yet still available). But, then you're dealing
with a (metal) medicine cabinet instead of HVAC ducts. :-/

Maybe use a picostation hidden behind an "old works" Jbox.
A bit of a nuisance to access but do-able. Trick would be
figuring out how to locate it high enough in the wall...