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Any way to make LEDs mimic analog seconds movement on a clock?

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Largo, May 19, 2005.

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  1. Largo

    Largo Guest

    I wish to take digital clock seconds "00 to 59" and translate the
    segments into 0 to 60 incrementing LED'S. IOW the digital display
    converted to "analog" ring of LED's around the clock face. Thus my
    digital clock display's "hh:mm" and a ring of LED's (60 for each
    second). They must start at the 12 O-Clock position when seconds
    makes 00.

    Looking at the MAX 7219 to drive the individule LEDs. How can I
    decode this?

    Largo
     
  2. Luhan Monat

    Luhan Monat Guest

    If I understand what you need to do, drive 60 individual LEDs, the
    minimum drive line count is 16 (8 x 8 matrix). PIC16F870 has enough
    lines plus some for I/O. Matrix LED anodes on Port-B, cathodes on
    Port-C. Drive 1 line high, and one low from each port. Float the rest.
    Then move on to the next line for a count of 60.

    The PIC's all have 25ma current limit so resistors are not needed. This
    is a 'one chip' solution.
     
  3. 9 port lines are enough to directly drive 60 LEDs.
    I think I'd like to see 9 current limiting resistors in there. The
    maximum current is not well defined.

    But converting the drive from two digits of an existing digital clock
    into unary sounds pretty unpleasant.


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  4. Tim Wescott

    Tim Wescott Guest

    Spehro Pefhany wrote:
    snip
    It's probably easier to make a whole clock with a PIC than to decode the
    digits...
     
  5. Luhan Monat

    Luhan Monat Guest

    Spehro Pefhany wrote:

    How do you do 60 LEDs with 9 lines?
     
  6. Connect two antiparallel LEDs betwen each unique pair of lines (series
    resistor on each line assumed). The maximum number of LEDs with n
    lines is thus n*(n-1) for n>=2. To drive a single LED you tristate all
    but two lines, on those two you make one high and the other low. The
    antiparallel LED is turned on by reversing the polarity, of course.
    Only one LED can be on at once, but that's okay for this application
    (and multiplexing can increase the number that visually appear to be
    lit, within reason).


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  7. Donald

    Donald Guest

    antiparallel ???


    Could you please post a simple schematic.

    I don't get it.
     
  8. Okay, sounds like dinner's almost ready, let's see if I can get it
    done and scanned.. ah, in the nick of time:

    http://www.speff.com/12_from_4.jpg

    This is an example of driving 12 LEDs from 4 port lines.


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  9. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    I pondered this myself for use with a WWVB clock.

    Reset a 60-long shift-register at 00, then clock it at one second
    intervals.

    MAYBE smaller, use counters and decoding logic.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  10. Google for charlieplexing.
     
  11. Ken Smith

    Ken Smith Guest


    To make the design easier you can:

    Do it in two steps. The first could be a PROM look up table with 128
    elements, 10 of which will ever be addressed. From there it is a simple
    decode.


    Since this is only got to work at 1Hz like time frames: you could just
    make a table of LED states and search down the list for one that matches
    the clock's output. There could be a second table that gives the port
    state for the LED drive.
     
  12. On Fri, 20 May 2005 13:55:10 +0000 (UTC), the renowned
    And, on the input end, de-multiplexing the digit data (most likely)
    and level-shifting the LED drive (assuming it's an LED clock)- maybe a
    bunch of comparators.

    I did something like this ages ago using a few 4051s to mux static
    3-1/2 digit LED drive into a single comparator. Plus some magic to
    synchronize with updates. Unpleasant.


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  13. MSC

    MSC Guest

    Several electronics stores (in Europe at least) sell kits made by a
    company called Velleman. One of their kits is a roulette wheel, which
    uses a PIC to drive 36 LEDs. The circuit for it is here:

    http://www.velleman.be/Downloads/0/Manual_MK119.pdf

    It's the same principle as Spehro's, just taken a few stages further
    (and so far as I can see, still a fair bit of room for expansion).
    Very cunning!

    Mike
     
  14. Luhan Monat

    Luhan Monat Guest

    You are most exactly correct on this. I'll keep it in mind next time I
    need to run a shitload of LED's from just a few line.
     
  15. I think the Velleman design is a sub-optimal variation that, in
    return, for the extra port lines, allows an inexpensive single-sided
    PCB layout


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
     
  16. Anno Siegel

    Anno Siegel Guest

    Nice drawing :)

    It could also be arranged in a matrix with diodes across each crossing
    except the main diagonal, all the same orientation. The port lines
    are connected to both the rows and the columns of the matrix. That are
    n^2 - n = n*(n - 1) diodes. To light the diode at i,k (i != k), make
    line i high, line k low, and make all other lines hi-z.

    Anno
     
  17. Fred Bloggs

    Fred Bloggs Guest

    I would forget the 7219 and use two M74HC42 available from Mouser. The
    74HC42 are BCD to decimal decoders which means you input a 4-bit BCD
    code in the range 0-9 and it activates 1 of 10 outputs low. So you
    arrange the 60 LEDs into 6 groups of 10, use the MSD of the clock
    seconds for input to one 74HC42 to select one group of 10 LEDs, and then
    the clock LSD inputs to the second HC42 to select the 1 of 10 LEDs in
    the group. This requires 2x 16-pin 74HC42, one current limiting
    resistor, and six cheap transistor+ base resistor like so- how you
    extract the seconds MSD and LSD depends on what's in the clock:

    View in a fixed-width font such as Courier.
     
  18. Largo

    Largo Guest

    This sounds very helpful. I wish i could just recode the PIC based
    digital clock since all the PIC code is offered from this site:
    http://hobby_elec.piclist.com/e_pic6_76.htm

    The circuit already uses a BCD decoder for driving six 7-segment LED
    displays. There a link to the circuit I refer which I purchased most
    of the parts. It uses a PIC and also a CPLD for 3 to 8 decoder, some
    divider for time accuracy and debounce logic. I use a 10Mhz metal-can
    oscillator for the time keeping input. I cannot find the oscillator
    used in the original description. Perhaps the circuit shown to the
    group can loosen a few extra suggestions. Thanks for your
    suggestions.

    This circuit can be found on this link:
    http://hobby_elec.piclist.com/e_pic6_71.htm

    Largo
     
  19. Fred Bloggs

    Fred Bloggs Guest

    It looks like the simplest add-on that does not require a programmable
    part would be some simple logic to detect 00 written to DSP5,6 digits-
    this then resets two BCD counters like the 74HC162 or 74HC192- these
    counters then increment with each TR6 strobe (assuming the update is 1
    sec)- the BCD counters are used to drive the MSD, LSD of the 74HC42 circuit.
     
  20. Fred Bloggs

    Fred Bloggs Guest

    Looks like the DSP6 strobe is going to be several KHz- so scratch that
    idea. Why don't you learn how to re-program the PIC- or ask the kit
    maker to do it, so that RC0-RC6 output a 4-bit BCD instead of 7-segment
    when addressing DSP5,6- then 2x 4-bit latches capture the data and drive
    the 74HC42 circuit.
     
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