Any knowledge / insight / info on DMP panels?

[motley me]

I'm glad they went back to the traditional manual format instead of that
"kludge" of a fold out monstrosity some idiot dreamed up when they first
released it...

AMEN!

 

[Eric B.]

You won't get DMP that cheap I don't think, and YOU will not be able to
flash anything only a dealer can.

Gimme the model numbers of all parts spec'd and I'll tell you if you're
getting a fair price.

I don't have model numbers of any parts quoted, but he did send me this:
DMP XP50 - $240
LCD Keypad - $130
double tech motion detector 75$
wireless smoke detector 135$
double tech motion detector 75$

wireless double tech motion detector in the hallway on the room level floor
115$

wireless smoke detector 135$

wireless glassbreak detector in the Den in front of the patio doors 120$

carbon monoxide detector 115$ Add (1) power supply unit 1 Amp.105$

wireless smoke detector in the hallway on the room level 135$





I've already gone through all the trouble of home wiring all the locations
for smoke/motion/glassbreak detectors, so have no desire to go wireless for
any of them. But I don't know if that affects the pricing at all (ie: if
wired is cheaper or not).



I don't know if the prices listed are expensive or not - open to any second
opinions...



Thanks!



Eric

 

[Eric B.]

I'm curious Eric, what is his asking price for the install & equipment???
Also, is he a Smith & Wesson (Their dealers install DMP) Dealer???

Total install price is about 1500$ for parts and programming, but without
any wiring (i've done it all already). It seems a little steep to me to be
honest, but his quote includes a whole bunch of wireless sensors that I
don't need as I've already wired everything up.

Just the DMP CP (XT50) and the LCD keypad, he is asking 400$. Of course,
then I still need to include labour/programming since it is something that
apparently I will be unable to do myself.

Thanks,

Eric

 

[Eric B.]

FYI - I did call DMP this morning to try to get more information about the
dealers in my area and to find out if the dealer is truly exclusive in
this
market or not. At first, they transferred me to the wrong rep - that rep
hasn't handled my territory in over 3 months. When I did finally get
transferred to the right rep, I got voicemail and am still waiting for a
call back. I'm hoping they'll call me back Monday without me needing to
call in a third time. I was hoping to find a list of dealers on their
website, but they don't have any listed there either.

Amazingly, it has been almost a week and I have yet to hear back from DMP.
Not too impressed, to be honest. I was expecting a call back already
telling me where I would be able to buy a system...

Eric

 

[Eric B.]

That is my next step. I am having someone else come in today to give me
another opinion, and will be curious to see what he has to say. I really
don't know what he sells anymore. I know he used to sell Napco a lot, but
that was 15 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if he still does the same.

So I finally got feedback from another vendor today. Interestingly enough,
he dropped Napco a few years back as well, due to supply problems.
Apparently, he told me, Napco decided to stop supplying my local area at the
time; that they wanted to concentrate their sales efforts elsewhere. I did
call Napco and found out that there is a local distributor here now (Triad),
however I don't know how long they have been with the product. One thing is
certain, it is no longer ADI. I don't know if that switch-over is what
caused both companies to migrate away from them.

This other installer suggested Paradox; that is his CP of choice. Do any of
you have experience with Paradox and/or feedback about it? A friend of mine
has it, and my first gut instinct was that I didn't like it. I didn't like
the look of the keypad, the way it functions, etc. However, I haven't
really used it, and I know his installer screwed up the installation process
a little. So I'm a little biased. I don't know much else about the units
however. Are they a "worthy" consideration? Easy to maintain/administer?
Or is that a DMP concept again- where only certain dealers are able to
service/program/maintain them, etc?

In the meantime, I've also had a suggestion to look at the Elk M1. I took a
quick look at the specs on it, and off the cuff, it looks extremely
interesting. However, the cost also looks at least triple the price of a
Napco/Ademco/etc unit. I've also never previously heard of Elk; is Elk a
known/trusted name in the security industry, or are they more
home-automation that has branched themselves into security? Is it difficult
finding monitoring companies to support Elk (whether by dialup, cell or IP)?
Or should a monitoring company be able to handle any make/model - just a
question of programming the unit to dial the appropriate number?

Thanks so much for any information. I would never have expected this
decision to be so challenging.

Eric

 

[tourman]

So I finally got feedback from another vendor today.  Interestingly enough,
he dropped Napco a few years back as well, due to supply problems.
Apparently, he told me, Napco decided to stop supplying my local area at the
time; that they wanted to concentrate their sales efforts elsewhere.  Idid
call Napco and found out that there is a local distributor here now (Triad),
however I don't know how long they have been with the product.  One thing is
certain, it is no longer ADI.  I don't know if that switch-over is what
caused both companies to migrate away from them.

This other installer suggested Paradox; that is his CP of choice.  Do any of
you have experience with Paradox and/or feedback about it?  A friend ofmine
has it, and my first gut instinct was that I didn't like it.  I didn't like
the look of the keypad, the way it functions, etc.  However, I haven't
really used it, and I know his installer screwed up the installation process
a little.  So I'm a little biased.  I don't know much else about the units
however.  Are they a "worthy" consideration?  Easy to maintain/administer?
Or is that a DMP concept again- where only certain dealers are able to
service/program/maintain them, etc?

In the meantime, I've also had a suggestion to look at the Elk M1.  I took a
quick look at the specs on it, and off the cuff, it looks extremely
interesting.  However, the cost also looks at least triple the price ofa
Napco/Ademco/etc unit.  I've also never previously heard of Elk; is Elka
known/trusted name in the security industry, or are they more
home-automation that has branched themselves into security?  Is it difficult
finding monitoring companies to support Elk (whether by dialup, cell or IP)?
Or should a monitoring company be able to handle any make/model - just a
question of programming the unit to dial the appropriate number?

Thanks so much for any information.  I would never have expected this
decision to be so challenging.

Eric

RHC: Eric, I have had 15 years of experience with Paradox and have
about 700 of their panels in service. Overall, they make a fine panel
although like all manufacturers they have made their share of stupid
mistakes. However, anytime they have, they've always "stepped up to
the plate" and made it right. They are a young and progressive
company, constantly bringing out the latest modifications to their
panels. The downside to this of course is the constant learning curve
that goes along with it. They are right in the middle with backward
compatibility, with some of their newer panels not able to use the
older keypads, resulting in the need to stock spare parts more than
normal.

They sell all around the world, and have not concentrated much on the
saturated US market. I could be wrong, but I have heard it said they
are the biggest supplier of alarm panels in Brazil. They have a new
"Stay D" function which hasn't caught on here in North America, but
seems to be accepted in Europe and elsewhere.

Their tech support is VERY good. Their wireless is also very good,
although they have had one small unit that was not so good. They have
a range of panels from small to huge, with the largest are only
applicable to large commercial customers. Overall, their product line
is superior to DSC, another Canadian supplier, although programming is
quite unique to their company. They don't seem to need as much service
as the DSC line, and have none of DSC's propensity to have weird
firmware problems solved only by "power down and power up and problem
is solved..??"

They are not like DMP. Any dealer can take on their product.

 

[Crash Gordon]

That's *ridiculously* cheap for DMP XT50 & LCD Keypad (you don't say which
panel configuration though but its still too cheap)

--
**Crash Gordon**

 

[Crash Gordon]

He won't be in biz long at those prices.

As good as wireless is these days, if the house is wired PROPERLY, there's
no reason to go wireless. Wired devices are cheaper if the wiring is in the
right place (plus other considerations regarding wiring)

What part of the world are you in...is this in USD?

.....

I once knew an alarm guy, that thought selling equipment at a profit was
unethical immoral, he sold stuff at what he paid for it and just charged
for labor (of course his wife and kids had to help install it)....needless
to say he is/was an idiot.



--
**Crash Gordon**

 

[Eric B.]

He won't be in biz long at those prices.

*laugh* The ironic thing is that this is a company that has been in
business for over 20yrs already. I dont know how much of their business
model is based on profit on hardware vs profit on labour & support. They
are a large monitoring company, so it is very possible that they decided to
make HW cheap in order to entice more clientelle. And if they are truly
exclusive for DMP in the area, then once I have a DMP system installed in my
house, I'm pretty much stuck to use them for monitoring...

As good as wireless is these days, if the house is wired PROPERLY, there's
no reason to go wireless. Wired devices are cheaper if the wiring is in
the right place (plus other considerations regarding wiring)

Forgive my ignorance, but what is your definition of wired properly? What
other considerations are their to wiring apart from making sure that the
wiring is in the correct locations?

What part of the world are you in...is this in USD?

Actually, its in CDN. I'm in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. And with the Cdn
dollar taking a beating these last couple of weeks, it would translate to
even cheaper in USD.


Thanks,

Eric

 

[Eric B.]

They sell all around the world, and have not concentrated much on the
saturated US market. I could be wrong, but I have heard it said they
are the biggest supplier of alarm panels in Brazil. They have a new
"Stay D" function which hasn't caught on here in North America, but
seems to be accepted in Europe and elsewhere.

I read what little I could about the "Stay D" function on their website, and
am extremely confused by it. I figure I must be misunderstanding something.
From my understanding, it seems like everytime someone opens a window, or a
door, or ..., you need to disarm the system (or that zone in question).
Which would imply needing either to run around to the keypad everytime I
decide to crack open a window, or carry a wireless remote with me everywhere
I go in the house.

Am I misreading this? It just doesn't sound very practical at all...

Their tech support is VERY good.

Will they support end users as well, or only dealers?

Overall, their product line
is superior to DSC, another Canadian supplier, although programming is
quite unique to their company. They don't seem to need as much service
as the DSC line, and have none of DSC's propensity to have weird
firmware problems solved only by "power down and power up and problem
is solved..??"

How would you rate / compare them to Ademco?

Thanks so much for the info!

Eric

 

[Eric B.]

That's *ridiculously* cheap for DMP XT50 & LCD Keypad (you don't say which
panel configuration though but its still too cheap)

Are there multiple configurations for the same box? Would it make more
sense if he quoted me the wrong unit and was quoting me for the XT30
instead, or still be too cheap?

Tx,

Eric

 

[tourman]

I read what little I could about the "Stay D" function on their website, and
am extremely confused by it.  I figure I must be misunderstanding something.
From my understanding, it seems like everytime someone opens a window, ora
door, or ..., you need to disarm the system (or that zone in question).
Which would imply needing either to run around to the keypad everytime I
decide to crack open a window, or carry a wireless remote with me everywhere
I go in the house.

RHC: Dont feel bad; I have taken their course for dealers and am still
confused about it. As close as I can see, it is like every zone on 24
hr, with the ability to bypass automatically zones as required. In
dangerous environments, it might serve a purpose, but for the average
residential user in Canada, it is needlessly complex.

Am I misreading this?  It just doesn't sound very practical at all...


Will they support end users as well, or only dealers?

RHC: They only support dealers as far as I know. Very few alarm
manufacturers (if any) will support end users directly. Their
customers are dealers, not end users. End users are either the
customers of dealers, or very much "on their own".

How would you rate / compare them to Ademco?

RHC: I don't use Ademco, so my comments must be taken in that vein. As
far as I know (my impressions only), Ademco is solid but a bit old
fashioned, and as a company doesn't move very quickly in the
marketplace, while Paradox probably moves the quickest that I know. I
would suspect that Paradox is far more modern equipment than Ademco.
But is this really a good thing ? People want only trouble free alarms
that do what they are supposed to do. All the whizbang stuff in my
experience goes largely ignored and ends up being turned of by most
installing companies. However, it's there if the end user needs it.
The Stay D function is an option, and can be turned off as well.

Thanks so much for the info!

RHC; Eric, I don't know much about DMP, but if you are in Canada, it
would probably be wise to consider a Canadian company, for ease of
supply and pricing. That pretty much limits you to Ademco, DSC,
Paradox and Caddyx....R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com

 

[Crash Gordon]

inline...

--
**Crash Gordon**

*laugh* The ironic thing is that this is a company that has been in
business for over 20yrs already. I dont know how much of their business
model is based on profit on hardware vs profit on labour & support. They
are a large monitoring company, so it is very possible that they decided
to make HW cheap in order to entice more clientelle. And if they are
truly exclusive for DMP in the area, then once I have a DMP system
installed in my house, I'm pretty much stuck to use them for monitoring...

Why do you day that? DMP can transmit in other formats, you can be monitored
anywhere.

They must be REALLY big because those prices are very very low.

Forgive my ignorance, but what is your definition of wired properly? What
other considerations are their to wiring apart from making sure that the
wiring is in the correct locations?

Type of wire, how it is run (away from sources of induced current), motion
detector & glassbreak detector placement, placement of switches (are there
service loops?)....are important.

I HATE when a house is prewired and the installer used a 3/8" drill bit for
everything...and no service loops...so if you have to repair a window switch
you're working with tweezers and a magnifying glass.

Actually, its in CDN. I'm in Montreal, Quebec, Canada. And with the Cdn
dollar taking a beating these last couple of weeks, it would translate to
even cheaper in USD.

They're being REALLY nice to you.

 

[Crash Gordon]

Yes, different configurations.
It can transmit by Telco/Network/Cellular so the panel comes in a couple
(maybe 3, I forget) combinations.

I haven't installed an XT yet (they're relatively new) so I'd have to look
it up. As soon as I get some time I'm going to order one to play with.

Even if it's the 30 it's still pretty cheap if its Dialer/Network/Cellular
panel.

If it's the 30 with just dialer/network and no can + lcd keypad - its STILL
a "fair" price.



--
**Crash Gordon**

 

[tourman]

RHC: Dont feel bad; I have taken their course for dealers and am still
confused about it. As close as I can see, it is like every zone on 24
hr, with the ability to bypass automatically zones as required. In
dangerous environments, it might serve a purpose, but for the average
residential user in Canada, it is needlessly complex.





RHC: They only support dealers as far as I know. Very few alarm
manufacturers (if any) will support end users directly. Their
customers are dealers, not end users. End users are either the
customers of dealers, or very much "on their own".





RHC: I don't use Ademco, so my comments must be taken in that vein. As
far as I know (my impressions only), Ademco is solid but a bit old
fashioned, and as a company doesn't move very quickly in the
marketplace, while Paradox  probably moves the quickest that I know. I
would suspect that Paradox is far more modern equipment than Ademco.
But is this really a good thing ? People want only trouble free alarms
that do what they are supposed to do. All the whizbang stuff in my
experience goes largely ignored and ends up being turned of by most
installing companies. However, it's there if the end user needs it.
The Stay D function is an option, and can be turned off as well.




RHC; Eric, I don't know much about DMP, but if you are in Canada, it
would probably be wise to consider a Canadian company, for ease of
supply and pricing. That pretty much limits you to Ademco, DSC,
Paradox and Caddyx....

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canadawww.homemetal.com

RHC: Correction....Ademco and Caddyx are American companies. What I
meant to say was that these panel lines are common here in Canada, at
least in our area. Sorry....

 

[Bob]

RHC: Correction....Ademco and Caddyx are American companies. What I
meant to say was that these panel lines are common here in Canada, at
least in our area. Sorry....

r u guys still getting caddx panels? they've been GE for a year or 3 in the
US. ps Canada is in N America.

 

[tourman]

RHC: Correction....Ademco and Caddyx are American companies. What I
meant to say was that these panel lines are common here in Canada, at
least in our area. Sorry....

r u guys still getting caddx panels?  they've been GE for a year or 3 in the
US.  ps Canada is in N America.

RHC: Could be....I don't follow all the takeover news in the security
business. I just know that those four makes are available through a
number of dealers hereabouts. ADT use Ademco locally as do Protectron.
Caddyx is no where near as common but available. It seems DSC is most
common followed by Paradox in Eastern Canada. Just about every other
make doesn't even show up at all.....

 

[Eric B.]

RHC: Dont feel bad; I have taken their course for dealers and am still
confused about it. As close as I can see, it is like every zone on 24
hr, with the ability to bypass automatically zones as required. In
dangerous environments, it might serve a purpose, but for the average
residential user in Canada, it is needlessly complex.

Overall I liked the concept, but I just had a lot of difficulty
understanding how it works out for the average user. End result - I don't
htink I would end up going with StayD.

RHC; Eric, I don't know much about DMP, but if you are in Canada, it
would probably be wise to consider a Canadian company, for ease of
supply and pricing. That pretty much limits you to Ademco, DSC,
Paradox and Caddyx....

Thanks for the feedback. I'm very much leaning away from DMP and towards
Ademco or DSC, but like I said, the pricing for DMP is so cheap, it is hard
not to give it fair consideration. Also, someone has now thrown the Elk M1
into the mix of things to consider, so I'm looking at that as well.
However, I don't know how easy it is to find supply for Elk in Canada, or
how good their wireless is (not that I currently need wireless, but just
nice to know that I have that backup option). Plus a lot of people seem to
have issues with DSC, so I wouldn't want to find myself shopping for
problems either...

Do you have any knowledge about Elk?

Thanks,

Eric

 

[Eric B.]

Yes, different configurations.
It can transmit by Telco/Network/Cellular so the panel comes in a couple
(maybe 3, I forget) combinations.

I haven't installed an XT yet (they're relatively new) so I'd have to look
it up. As soon as I get some time I'm going to order one to play with.

Even if it's the 30 it's still pretty cheap if its Dialer/Network/Cellular
panel.

If it's the 30 with just dialer/network and no can + lcd keypad - its
STILL a "fair" price.

Got the updated list from the dealer today:
1 DMP XT50 and reprogram the system and test all of the zones with central
$240
1 DMP Aqualite LCD keypad 7060 130$
1 double tech Bosch- ISM-BLD1-PF1 motion detector 75$
1 smoke detector Sentrol 541NCSXTE 95$
1 double tech motion detector 75$
1 double tech Bosch- ISM-BLD1-PF1 motion detector in the hallway on the room
level floor 75$
1 smoke detector Sentrol 541NCSXTE 95$
1 glassbreak detector in the Den in front of the patio doors 120$
1 carbon monoxide detector Sentrol 541NCSXTE 95$
1 power supply unit 1 Amp.105$
1 smoke detector Sentrol 541NCSXTE in the hallway on the room level 95$



From your previous post, sounds like the XT50 and the keypad is an
unbelievable bargain. What about the other components? How do they rate?

Thanks,

Eric

 

[Eric B.]

Why would DMP talk to you? You're a homeowner, not a big commercial
account... Most of the DMP dealers out here install mostly commercial,
they leave the residential jobs to all of the ADT dealers.......... You
know, FREE, FREE, FREE, FREE, FREE everything...

Because I'm calling them up trying to find out through whom I can buy their
product. I'm not asking them for tech information - just the name and
number of a local dealer... Napco called me back very quickly. As did
Ademco/Honeywell.