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Any knowledge / insight / info on DMP panels?

B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash Gordon said:
Are you speaking about the purchase of the DMP bible to become a dealer? I
wasn't real happy with that either if that's what you're talking about. My
dealer ship had lapsed for a year due to illness and I had to re-up, kinda
as a newbie so buying the bible (which I could have written having been a
dealer for 15 years) was kinda dumb...but hey whaddya gonna do.

Actually I did not order the DMP bible, and I was never told I had to. I
was only signing on as a servicing not installing dealer, and I already had
a complete set of manuals from two other sources. I was told I could
download all of the manuals I needed in the future. I had gone through
several rounds where I had been told I was setup, and then I would call to
order something only to be told I couldn't. Ultimately I got Dave on the
phone and he told me I needed to order something on a credit card before
they could do the final step to get me setup. I let him talk me into buying
a Prox Demo keypad. I didn't want it or need it, but it was the easiest way
to get going. I never used it for anything, and I think it was one of the
things I threw away when I moved the office into the new warehouse by my
house. We never talked about several hundred dollars for manuals I already
had. I did not order them, and we never even talked about them. When I
called him back he said he would pick them up at my office and credit me the
charge. That never happened. That was also the last time I heard from Dave
Sharp. He was always too busy and never returned my calls after that. I
was busy and I let it go too long to take it to my credit card company. I
have never purchased so much as a switch from them since. If I can't
justify changing out a DMP product, I go underground to get my parts. I am
afraid to give DMP my credit card number after that, and I long since
canceled that card.
Hows the new house and office doing? I gotta stop by one of these days.

The new house is great. Someday when I'm to crippled to fish all day in
tournaments I may get some landscaping done. The office warehouse is still
in a major state of flux. Between work, family, and fishing The office part
is still only half done. My office and the file room and that's it, and
really only the file room is 100% complete.

Yes, you need to get out this way sometime. We can pretend to go fishing
and spend the day talking about all the headaches of running an alarm
company. LOL. Actually when I have had some time. I have been teaching
myself to MIG weld aluminum. Right now about I'm halfway through repairing
a wrecked aluminum bass boat. It looks like crap, but it will be tough as
an aluminum boat can be when I am done. Actually, I plan to put a jet
outboard on it and use it for my backwater brush buster and shallow water
runner so its looks aren't all that important. Just how well it will hold
up when I find a rock in the middle of some overgrown backwater channel.
Wanna go for a boat ride...... Bwahahahahahaha!

Bob
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well if it goes fast enough you don't have to worry about any holes in it
right?

Yah know...I've never really gone fishing for bass, or much of anything else
out here in AZ.



--
**Crash Gordon**
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Well if it goes fast enough you don't have to worry about any holes in it
right?

Yah know...I've never really gone fishing for bass, or much of anything else
out here in AZ.
That' s because you can only catch lizards in dry stream beds and
fishing during a flash flood is too dangerous.
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Crash Gordon said:
Well if it goes fast enough you don't have to worry about any holes in it
right?

Yah know...I've never really gone fishing for bass, or much of anything
else out here in AZ.

Well depending on the time of year Ican probably put you on some fish. I
just took second fishing solo in a Pro/Am draw team tournament today. I did
get big fish of the day. Sadly I missed 1st place by 0.01 pounds.
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L Bass said:
Give a man a fish and he will have food for one day. Teach a man to fish
and he will sit in his boat drinking beer all day.

Actually, I mostly fish tournament style and no consumable alcohol is
allowed in your boat in a tournament. On the rare occasions when I take a
buddy cat fishing we might take some beer, but if I am driving I do not
drink.
 
E

Eric B.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
news:e3d1c455-8977-444a-9a5a-8bc8e6ec2999@u57g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
Based on this post alone, it seems as if you've already chosen not to
go with and "exclusive" product line. So ......... Have you called
Napco or Ademco/Honeywell and asked for a dealer located in your area?
It seems that you've taken one dealers word that there are no other
Napco dealers in the area.

That is my next step. I am having someone else come in today to give me
another opinion, and will be curious to see what he has to say. I really
don't know what he sells anymore. I know he used to sell Napco a lot, but
that was 15 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if he still does the same.
DSC, is a "Canadian" product it that means anything to you but in my
area, (it seems to me) that it is a product line that is used mostly
by companies that do the ..... ummmmmm shall I be kind and and say,
the "less expensive" jobs or by the companys that don't have much
technical capability. Which does, however, speak in favor of
simplicity. I haven't tried it in years but even back then, I got the
impression that it was pretty "flimsily" made.

That's basically the impression I get simply b/c it is the choice of all
housing development contractors around here. Any new development that goes
up seems to automatically get a DSC panel, unless otherwise specified by the
home owner. Which makes me think that it is the absolute basic that one can
get for their home.
He asked the group of about 30 or 40 people,
what central station format everybody was using. I was the only one
there using 4/2 format. Everyone else hadn't "graduated" away from 3/1
yet. I was shocked! I'd been using 4/2 format for years and aparently
this was a quantum leap for the people present.

Out of curiosity, what is the 4/2 format vs. 3/1 format?
Suggestion: You'd better make damn well sure that you have it in the
contract that you have all the access codes if you want to get into
the programing.

Good idea. Will make sure to discuss it with them before doing anything.

Since you are familiar with the Napco line, which panel would you suggest
for someone that has the following needs:
- MBR window & glass break sensor
- Ground floor kitchen 2 windows and patio door (either sliding door or
french door)
- Ground floor family room window
- Ground floor dining room
- Ground floor living room window, patio door & glass break sensor
- Basement windows
- Garage access door
- Front door
- 2 Smoke detectors (bedroom level and basement)
- CO detector
- Propane dectector
- 3 keypads (front door, bedroom level & garage)
- 3 Motion detectors (living room, entrance hallway and bedroom level)

Think that's about it. All windows (except for basement) are to be casement
windows.

Should a glass break sensor be on a seperate zone from the window/door
sensor? Many of my ground floor level windows are quite large (ie:
80-100"). Should I protect each one with a glass break sensor as well?

My initial guess with this config is that I would look for something with at
least 14-16 zones. From looking at their product line, I would initially
guess something like the P816 or the P1632. I also like the concept of
being able to communicate remotely with my system; I don't know if this is
feasible with the NL-MOD unit (or if that is only for communication with the
monitoring station) or if Napco has a telephone-in module.

Any thoughts / experience with the Napco Freedom line? Does it really work
as well as they advertise? Or is it more gimicky than effective (as it
seems)?

Thanks for any input!

Eric
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Napco would be my choice over DSC - if I had to make that choice.

4/2 sends 4 digit account number, 2 digit alarm/trouble/restoral/oc
descriptor code

3/1 sends 3 digit account number 1 digit alarm codes - I don't think anyone
installing modern equipment would be using this one anymore. Shit, I've run
into installers that don't even know what it is!

IMO you're not going to get the programming lock code from any alarm company
*while* they are monitoring you, *but* I would put in the contract that they
will give it to you should you decide to part ways.

Why? All it takes is one misplaced digit in programming to screw up
reporting...and who would be liable ? You who made the change and fried in
the fire, or the company that put it in and is monitoring it? Duh.


--
**Crash Gordon**
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Eric B. said:
That is my next step. I am having someone else come in today to give me
another opinion, and will be curious to see what he has to say. I really
don't know what he sells anymore. I know he used to sell Napco a lot, but
that was 15 years ago. I wouldn't be surprised if he still does the same.


That's basically the impression I get simply b/c it is the choice of all
housing development contractors around here. Any new development that
goes up seems to automatically get a DSC panel, unless otherwise specified
by the home owner. Which makes me think that it is the absolute basic
that one can get for their home.


Out of curiosity, what is the 4/2 format vs. 3/1 format?


Good idea. Will make sure to discuss it with them before doing anything.

Since you are familiar with the Napco line, which panel would you suggest
for someone that has the following needs:
- MBR window & glass break sensor
- Ground floor kitchen 2 windows and patio door (either sliding door or
french door)
- Ground floor family room window
- Ground floor dining room
- Ground floor living room window, patio door & glass break sensor
- Basement windows
- Garage access door
- Front door
- 2 Smoke detectors (bedroom level and basement)
- CO detector
- Propane dectector
- 3 keypads (front door, bedroom level & garage)
- 3 Motion detectors (living room, entrance hallway and bedroom level)

Think that's about it. All windows (except for basement) are to be
casement windows.

Should a glass break sensor be on a seperate zone from the window/door
sensor? Many of my ground floor level windows are quite large (ie:
80-100"). Should I protect each one with a glass break sensor as well?

My initial guess with this config is that I would look for something with
at least 14-16 zones. From looking at their product line, I would
initially guess something like the P816 or the P1632. I also like the
concept of being able to communicate remotely with my system; I don't know
if this is feasible with the NL-MOD unit (or if that is only for
communication with the monitoring station) or if Napco has a telephone-in
module.

Any thoughts / experience with the Napco Freedom line? Does it really
work as well as they advertise? Or is it more gimicky than effective (as
it seems)?

The Napco Freedom panel is a nice one for a very limited application. I
have a Freedom 64 demo unit. I would prefer to go with a more
"conventional" type of alarm setup personally unless the features of the
Freedom that make it unique are overwhelmingly desirous to you.
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert L Bass said:
That sounds like someone is pulling your leg. Napco is sold through
distribution channels rather than dealer direct. That means that any
dealer in the country can order Napco from any distributor in the country.
Napco is even sold by hundreds of online dealers (including my company).
I can't believe the company had supply problems ordering Napco.

They did if ADI was their main supplier. Napco fired them as a distributor
several years ago.
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
motley me said:
From what i have seen of the DMP panels they are good panels and have some
features that others should be incorporating. that being said, they do
wire
differently. they have more zones at the keypad than most panels, so if
you
switched later it could involve some creative solutions.


A Napco RP1CAe2 keypad has a full function 4 zone expander built into the
keypad for about the same price as other manufacturers provide a similar
keypad with one or zero zones at the keypad.
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Some Dealers (myself included) have run into some really bad times with
DSC. They're considered (by many) to be the "Microsoft" of alarms. They
release product before fully testing it and leave it to us guys in the
field to do that for them. That has got to be my biggest beef with them.
I can recall having to change 184 chipsets on one of their "Classic"
series 3000 panels because the version of chip they supplied would "auto
arm" by partition (even though the system was programmed as a single
partition). Changing the chip meant reprogramming the panel from scratch.
Then there was SkyRoute (which also involved another field chip change).
When you have committed to a product and have installed hundreds it burns
your butt to have to "fix" their mistakes at YOUR expense. I know of
several Dealers that will NEVER install another DSC panel. Personally I
like their latest version of the PC-1864 and I'm glad they went back to
the traditional manual format instead of that "kludge" of a fold out
monstrosity some idiot dreamed up when they first released it...

I just installed a PC1832 in a takeover. They had wireless and some keypads
so didn't want to go the expense of changing to Napco. Anyway. I found it
pretty easy to install, but kind of cludgy the way they address keypads and
wireless devices/zones. Maybe just because I am so used to the way that
Napco does it.

Anyway, it wasn't bad and did the job.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
I have some friends who like to fish the inland waterway around here.
They've invited me to go along a few times but unfortunately, they also
like to drink. Much as I enjoy fishing, I always find a reason to decline.

On the Amazon trip last year we had ten fishermen, two of whom spent
every day drinking themselves into a stupor. They were a royal PITA.
By the way, I bagged 45 Peacocks during the week, three of which were
over 20 pounds, the largest weighing 22 pounds. Like all Amazon fishing
operations it was catch and release. When it comes to bass fishing,
there's nothing that compares to the Brazilian Amazon. I'm in chemo
until March so I won't be going down this winter but if I survive, maybe
I can entice you into going with us next year, Bob.


What do you mean by "if"? You've got to think positive, Robert.
Everyone in my house is *positive* you'll be going fishing in the spring!
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Robert said:
According to Napoco, they dropped ADI because ADI demanded too many
price and stocking concessions. I don't know if that's true though. I
never asked anyone at ADI about it since I always bought Napco elsewhere
anyway. I get Honeywell and several other lines through ADI and I like
them but they're not the only show in town.

Napco is available through hundreds of other distributors all over the
country and any dealer can go with any distributor at a moment's
notice. Didn't you changes suppliers after bad treatment from one or
another? I buy from more than 10 different suppliers and I'm just a
small, web-based dealer.

By the way, did you notice that after all this time ADI is now selling
ELK Products? Stuff changes over time, eh?


Burtek was a big distributor of Elk products for years. The fact that
ADI/Honeywell bought them out would tend to make that a natural
progression (don't you think?). I do know there were more than just a
few sleepless nights in the homes of the higher execs at Paradox when
ADI and Burtek merged. Served 'em right for "putting all their eggs in
one basket". I'm glad it worked out well in the end, though.
 
F

Frank Olson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bob said:
I just installed a PC1832 in a takeover. They had wireless and some
keypads so didn't want to go the expense of changing to Napco. Anyway.
I found it pretty easy to install, but kind of cludgy the way they
address keypads and wireless devices/zones. Maybe just because I am so
used to the way that Napco does it.

Anyway, it wasn't bad and did the job.


The DSC wireless stuff is not my favourite either, but the DSC 1832 and
1864 still remains the easiest to keypad program (as a consequence would
also be the nicest one to go the DIY route).
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0

He's really Jason .......... the goalie masked bass boat killer!

Hey, I have a Save Phace boating mask with custom American flag paint job.
Thank you very much. And... I only take it on very cold mornings.
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
Out of curiosity, what is the 4/2 format vs. 3/1 format?


Nowdays CID is the prefered central station format. That's " Contact
ID." A little bit faster and more informative. It's a little to
complicated to give a full explanation of how it works. (ie. too lazy
to type it) Basically they've just compressed more information into
the data sent by the panel and it's sent faster. So over all, central
is getting more information but that makes it not as fast as it could
be if they were sending less information. So it winds up being just a
little bit faster when sending one or two alarm codes. We're talking
about 5 or so seconds faster than 4/2 format when sending one alarm
code .....
Since you are familiar with the Napco line, which panel would you suggest
for someone that has the following needs:
- MBR window & glass break sensor
- Ground floor kitchen 2 windows and patio door (either sliding door or
french door)
- Ground floor family room window
- Ground floor dining room
- Ground floor living room window, patio door & glass break sensor
- Basement windows
- Garage access door
- Front door
- 2 Smoke detectors (bedroom level and basement)
- CO detector
- Propane dectector
- 3 keypads (front door, bedroom level & garage)
- 3 Motion detectors (living room, entrance hallway and bedroom level)

Think that's about it. All windows (except for basement) are to be casement
windows.

Should a glass break sensor be on a seperate zone from the window/door
sensor? Many of my ground floor level windows are quite large (ie:
80-100"). Should I protect each one with a glass break sensor as well?

I'm presuming that you mean a shock sensor applied directly to the
glass(?)
Most times the shock sensors are included in the same circuit with the
window contact. Audio glass break detectors are put each on their
seperate zones the same as motion detectors. If you feel that you need
shock sensors on some windows, why wouldn't you want them on all
windows? If you decide yes, then you should probably consider running
wires for audio glass break detectors in each room and eliminate the
shock sensors on each window. Except for the additional labor, you can
detect glass breaking in the entire room with one device at a lower
cost then doing each indivual window. Then, in my opinion you've got
the "better" system. Glass break detection is a first line of defense,
backed up by contacts on the doors and windows and the final line of
defense, motion detectors. ..... NICE!
All you'd need after that would be a back up long range radio device
with redundant reporting to central station in the event someone cuts
your telephone communication.

Now ..... THAT's a truly good system!

My initial guess with this config is that I would look for something with at
least 14-16 zones. From looking at their product line, I would initially
guess something like the P816 or the P1632. I also like the concept of
being able to communicate remotely with my system; I don't know if this is
feasible with the NL-MOD unit (or if that is only for communication with the
monitoring station) or if Napco has a telephone-in module.

From your description above, I'd not use less than 17 zones. All doors
on their own zones but in addition, you'd have to put each audio
glass break on it's own zone too.

The minimum panel that I use is the 1632. That would work for your
basic alarm installation. Comes with one keypad and you can purchase
two more. That would give you a total of 20 zones. You can buy EZM
modules to expand it further, up to 32 zones. It has a little bit of
control functions using an external relay board and timed events. It's
really a 3200 "lite". Does most everything the 3200 does but not as
much of it.

As far as remote control, I don't know how much control you're talking
about but the Napco Wizard will allow you to arm and disarm and learn
the status of the system via local or remote telephone communication
and contains 3 relay contacts that you can remote control also. The
Wizard has programable voice response with a basic, limited but
understandable vocabulary. It's kluge to program but it's not hard,
just time consuming.

Any thoughts / experience with the Napco Freedom line? Does it really work
as well as they advertise? Or is it more gimicky than effective (as it
seems)?

Well, I don't like and never would use the version that works with the
keyed deadlock mechanism and no arming codes, but I've installed the
1664 with their new talking keypads, with built in loud sounder and a
motion detector. I really liked the looks of the new keypad with the
blue backlighting and the Motion detector in the keypad was perfect
for my application. (It can be deprogramed if you don't want to use it
or they also have a keypad model without the detector.) The voice
response wasn't annoying as some other manufacturers have been in the
past. I only did one installation , so I don't remember the part
numbers, but I'm sure you can find them. Except for the new keypads,
it's very similar to the 1632 only it's expandable to 64 zones. Nice
unit, I'll be using more in the future.
 
J

Jim

Jan 1, 1970
0
He's really Jason .......... the �goalie masked bass boat killer!

Hey, I have a Save Phace boating mask with custom American flag paint job..
Thank you very much. �And... I only take it on very cold mornings..

Yeah yeah ..... that's what ALL you mad, masked fish killers say. :)
 
B

Bob La Londe

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Nowdays CID is the prefered central station format. That's " Contact
ID." A little bit faster and more informative. It's a little to
complicated to give a full explanation of how it works. (ie. too lazy
to type it) Basically they've just compressed more information into
the data sent by the panel and it's sent faster. So over all, central
is getting more information but that makes it not as fast as it could
be if they were sending less information. So it winds up being just a
little bit faster when sending one or two alarm codes. We're talking
about 5 or so seconds faster than 4/2 format when sending one alarm
code .....

CID is an extended touch tone format. It sends a single short tone for each
digit of information sent. It uses 16 hex digits from 0 through F.

4x2 (and similar) is a pulse format that pulses the line for each increment
of each digit and then pauses to show separation of digits.

For instance a 9 in CID would be just a short beep of a particular
frequency, but in pulse format like 4x2 it will have to pulse the line nine
times and then pause. Imagine sending hex digits. Yes, many panels will
support hex digits in pulse format, although there is some confusions
between 0 and A as logically the both send ten pulses. Some panels take an
A programmed as a null and do not send it. I try not to program 0 or A if I
do not have to.

In CID format on a clear line you can send the account number, alarm zone,
alarm type, and following signals for other trips and conditions in the time
it takes for a pulse format to send the account number alone. From that
perspective it saves on-line time, sends more data, and save toll charges.

I have run across some bad line conditions where pulse format transmitted,
but CID was distorted too bad to be recognized by the receiver.
 
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