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Any good non-monitoring alarms?

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by [email protected], Oct 8, 2003.

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  1. Guest

    Is anyone out there using a good non-monitoring alarm? I'm curious because I
    want a alarm loud enough to alert the neighbors, but I don't want to spend a
    $30 monthly fee for life just for "monitoring".

    So what company or brand do you use?


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  2. Rich

    Rich Guest

    All Brands will work logically, turn off the dialer. or have go to a cell
    phone. But you wont get an insurance break if you don't have it monitored.


     
  3. C G

    C G Guest

    The comment about insurance is not entirely accurate. My insurance
    company will give a discount for an unmonitored alarm system. The
    discount is larger if it is monitored.
     
  4. RH.Campbell

    RH.Campbell Guest

    Yes, because nothing of any real consequence happens when the alarm goes off
    and insurance companies know that. And if the alarm is working correctly,
    and the user is using it correctly, that false alarm fee won't happen
    either. But at least when you do need things to happen, they will....

    Forget those large company $30 plus monitoring charges. Provided you own
    your system outright (and aren't paying off your zero down system), shopping
    around will get you proper monitoring for $10 to $20 monthly, often with no
    long term committment, and a dealer who will take over responsibility for
    keeping your system working.

    Seems like a no brainer to me, but....hey...I'm biased....:))

    RHC
     
  5. P A U L

    P A U L Guest

    Where is the benefit to pay for a monitoring station when it boils
    down to your own property and belongings?
    Make a comparisons between monthly fee and insurance benefit..

    A monitoring stations handle your alarm problem in a standard way
    without any knowledge of your specific requirements nor environmental
    availability of contact persons who can help to inform you about
    intruder and police presence at your location.
    Monitoring stations, most of the time, attempt to take contact with
    you or to the persons specified by you to ask authorization to take
    action.. No alternative if you and assigned persons are not available,
    they just warn police after that and theyre intervention contract is
    satisfied.
    The only item monitoring stations use to scare you is the fact that
    you will not always able to receive the alarm call, lets see what how
    i solve that.

    How can alarms be handled by you?
    Let's see how i handle alarms without monitoring and why i don't rely
    on an external monitoring station nor load external sounds from where
    i don't know precisely what is the action status taken, what is going
    on subject police or fire protection interventions.

    How do i handle alarms:
    1. I let the system ring directly to my cell phone.
    2. If i like to have my neighbor's (who are at theyre home) involved,
    i give them a personal call and explain the ongoing problem, the
    actions i have already taken.
    At least i will know who is involved to "observe" the surrounding
    eventual intruder identification and who will monitor if the
    police / fire protection is really arriving..
    I'm personally informed and can have ongoing contact.
    3. In case of fire, beside a direct call to the fire department my
    neighbor's are informed regardless they are at home or at work.
    This a variable parameter that monitoring stations can't handle.
    4. i let the system call back hiss own phone-line who will
    be busy of course (see below for more details).


    The usual arguments of monitoring stations are that they are
    available all the time and that you may not receive the alarm call.
    Well yes and no..

    How do i solve that?
    When an alarm is detected it dial my cell phone AND the place
    where the alarm is originated from, my home.
    Why ?
    When i'm not reachable for action (at the theater for instance)
    i redirect my alarm phone-line "conditionally on line busy" to an
    alternative person who agree to take action in my place during that
    time and only during that time (i cancel redirection if it is no
    longer required).
    When an alarm goes on, my alarm phone-line is "busy", so it redirects
    the alarm warning to the alternate person.

    Why do i not change the phone number in the alarm control panel
    to redirect the call?
    Redirection by means of a phone is less error risky, it can be done :
    1. With my home-phone in a semi-automatic manner (the redirection /
    cancel data is included and stored in my redirection phone
    number call);
    2. From my cell phone at any time and place.
    I can change the redirection status at distance.

    So, is monitoring required?
    Do they do a better job with theyre standard procedures?
    Is outside warning (yelling and flashing devices) mandatory and
    efficient? Do somebody act on that noise?
    AN inside warning scare intruders, they know that they are detected.

    How good will you feel when you select an all included out of your
    control handling OR when you select personal intervention when there
    is an alarm going on. Think it over, its up to you as long as you
    don't have signed a contract with them..

    Paul
     
  6. P A U L

    P A U L Guest

    On 08 Oct 2003 06:13:19 GMT, (AlarmReview) wrote:
    ....
    I redirect "dynamically" my help call (if required) to persons who are
    present, they are not arbitrary assigned.
    I don't let them take ANY action except monitoring, if they want to,
    intruder car number, presence, police, fire intervention..
    At least i will at the same time be INFORMED ON THE SPOT by them and
    can take corrective actions (dynamic adjusted) if required, i control
    the complete situation.
    NO STANDARD PROCEDURE from persons who don't care as much as i do
    about my belongings.

    Paul
     
  7. Frank Olson

    Frank Olson Guest

    If you're going to go this route, I'd suggest looking at systems that have
    pager or voice capability. Make sure you also do your homework as Rob
    (AlarmReview) has suggested. If you're contemplating installing your own
    equipment there are a number of wireless or hybrid controls available on the
    market that make installation a "snap"...

    There are several online dealers you can visit and that also happen to
    participate in this newsgroup. Most offer installation tips and some
    maintain excellent online FAQ's.

    http://www.diycomponents.com
    http://www.alarmsystemstore.com
    http://www.alarmcontacts.com
    http://www.tech-man.com/estore/default.asp
    http://www.i2automation.com

    In addition to the above there are lots of additional choices. Good luck!!!


     
  8. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    And if the alarm is working correctly,
    and the user is using it correctly, that false alarm fee won't happen
    either.

    "If" The numbers don't support the "if's", they support the when's. There's
    an over 90% chance it will happen.
     
  9. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    Isn't it rather ironic he trusts RF to notify him of the alarm? :)
     
  10. RH.Campbell

    RH.Campbell Guest

    Interesting statistic !! I have 600 customers in service, for over 8
    years, and I can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times
    customer's have been charged for false alarms....no where near 90%

    We have an expression that covers this..."penny wise and pound (dollar)
    foolish". It's your choice, but make sure your attempt to save dollars
    doesn't cloud your better judgment...

    RHC
     
  11. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    The statistic are supplied by the USDOJ. 600 customers vs. over 40 million
    monitored alarms. I don't disagree you can count the numbers on fines, but
    how about false alarms? Chances are your local PD knows more about your
    false alarms than you. What methods are you using for verification? I didn't
    state alarm companies are responsible alone for false alarms, but the facts
    remain, small scale, or large scale, they are the number 1 problem in the
    industry. What's your percentage of false alarms vs. actual criminal acts?
    That's where the percentage is...
     
  12. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    I hate to get completely off subject, because someone asked a simple
    question....but
    This has to be the most priceless statement I've heard yet to date in this
    group.
    Rob, your conception of this statement seems a little bias and limiting.
    If you said it works well for thousands of alarm dealers, that would be more
    accurate.
    and have learned so little. Go to usdoj.gov and learn how well it works from
    the law enforcement side of things, or better yet, grab a six pack, and type
    "False Alarms" into your search engine, and enjoy. You'll only pull up about
    90,000 documents about reality, not just what you think...

    It's nothing personal, just educational....
     
  13. RH.Campbell

    RH.Campbell Guest

    I'm not going to get into a useless pissing contest with you versus
    statistics. That will only prove we're both right and both wrong.

    You are correct that false alarms are a major industry problem no question;
    however, your comment originally was in regards to the worth of monitoring,
    the implication being that somehow monitoring is the root cause of all these
    false alarms in some fashion. In a sense you are correct, since without
    monitoring, you'd have almost zero calls to the police departments around
    the country, and a near zero false alarm rate. But that in a way, that just
    goes to show how useless local systems are.

    With no monitoring, you have no response (or at least, none that matters in
    any really reliable way). But like I said, if that makes you happy, go for
    it !!

    Regards,

    RHC
     
  14. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    I agree and understand the separation. Self Monitoring has too many holes
    when it comes to life safety. If your not concerned with crime, and are
    cheap, and place little value on your property, and life; it seems like the
    way to go.
    But, I support verification methods rather than the traditional, receive and
    respond methods. My comments where that either way, neither eliminates false
    alarm issues. I'll give you an example on a later thread.
     
  15. David

    David Guest

    It doesn't matter what stupid Paul thinks anyways . I've even tried
    giving away a free alarm installed and monitored for 1 year just if
    the person would agree to leave my stickers up. Well the "customer"
    refused , system would have been a P832 with a zone expander , 3
    motions (1 long range) , 2 glass breaks , 1 smoke , 1 ROR , 3 contacts
    , 1 hold up button. This was to prove a point to a friend with me at
    the time that all those "free" deals ruined Ottawa for anyone wanting
    to set up shop . This person would have actually received a free
    system with free monitoring (no contract) just for putting up 5 lousy
    stickers. I told him I would only charge him if he wanted
    modifications in the future as he was not sure if he wanted DVACs
    monitoring .
     
  16. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    There's no argument here, there is great worth to monitoring. It is the
    monitoring methods which are a concern. False alarms are the responsibility
    of the Alarm Industry. False Alarms are the number 1 problem. Everyone here
    avoids the real issues, as does all these wonderful National Orgs. Political
    answers, and the "it's too expensive to verify alarms" is all I hear. In the
    80's value ruled this industry, the 90's it was about paper, and now it's
    about all the crappy installs and methods used to receive that paper. We can
    all just pay higher taxes, enjoy having limited services, and watch the
    schools close, or start implementing alternative methods to the number one
    issue. It's that simple.
     
  17. Jackcsg

    Jackcsg Guest

    Cell phones utilize the same technology as wireless door chimes....pixie
    dust
    everyone knows that...
     
  18. RH.Campbell

    RH.Campbell Guest

    With all due respect David, what the hell were you thinking !! There is no
    good reason on earth to give away services, other than for charity. Ottawa
    is not and never will be "ruined' by the free mass marketers. As long as you
    don't try to compete with them in their ballpark, you will never run out of
    work in the "regular" full price market. But you can never market against
    them either unless you get away from all this long term monitoring
    contractual bullshit ! People will pay you full value up front if you give
    them a break over the longer term, and back it up with a complete warranty
    and solid, timely service they can count on. It's really that simple and
    always has been!! The mass marketers with their heavy handed, hard sell
    approach don't appeal to most reasonably intelligent shoppers in my view,
    just people who want something for nothing, or others who really do
    legitimately want to buy in the zero down market, and don't mind getting
    locked into an expensive contract. I really don't see why this is so
    difficult for the industry to grasp, and why so many small dealers lament
    the lack of business in this current red hot market !!

    I am booked solid for two months coming, and no system goes in for less than
    full price. The mass marketers and the Borg scumbag salesmen have NOT ruined
    the market by any means. They just give us an opportunity to show how much
    better and more complete an offer we can come up with. Personally, I don't
    consider them much competition at all....

    And as for the customer who wouldn't take that impossibly good offer you
    made...well, he must be an idiot, or a VERY suspicious guy!! Hey...it's all
    in the delivery !

    R.H.Campbell
    Home Security Metal Products
    Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
    www.homemetal.com
     
  19. C G

    C G Guest

    Yup, that was my point. The only way to know is to check.
     
  20. Another thought would be the liability issue should your neighbour rush over
    to check the alarm and gets injured or killed. Who pays for that?
     
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