Another patent Q

[Keith]

What? An antigravity generator powered by a perpetual motion machine?
;-)

Ok then, I got dibs on the perpetual motion machine powered by the
antigravity generator. ;-)

 

[Deefoo]

It sounds like there would be a term for that, in patent language, as
common occurance.

Let's say I invent a nail and hammer to drive it. Maybe I couldn't
patent the nail but the hammer. Then someone conceives of driving
screws with the hammer (not necessarily useful),
have they created a new thing? Drywall installers, by the way, often
set the screws halfway with a hammer.

Hammerable screws have been around for many years now and they _are_ very
useful. This is how you use them: Position the object you want to fix. Drill
a hole through the object and into the support in one go and ram in a hammer
screw. Very fast, strong and very usefull for f.i. temporarily fixing
something as you can easily unscrew it later (if you didn't bend it too much
when you hammered it in).

This has probably been patented somewhere somehow, I guess, don't know.

--DF

 

[JeffM]

Ok then, I got dibs on the perpetual motion machine

powered by the antigravity generator. ;-)
Keith

When the Patent Office did away with mandated working models in 1880,
it said there would still be some cases where those would be required;
the examples typically given were perpetual motion machines
and heaver-than-air flying machines.

For that reason, this is an interesting case:
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...*-*-*-*-*-*-*-*+Worsley-Twist-*-*+Mar-24-2005
http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache...to_requests_mo.html+*-*-*-*-*-*-working-model

(The story is from March 2005 but it was given new life recently
when it was posted to Slashdot.)
USPTO Requests Working Model
http://www.google.com/search?q=intitle:Patent-Office-demands-working+OR+intitle:PTO-Requests-working

 

[Dirk Bruere]

There are, on the patent books, a number of antigravity machines.
Where hav you been these past 20 (more or less) years?

I know about most of them.
However, I used it as a general case of something that would have wide
applicability across industry.

Dirk

 

[Rich Grise]

engineer wrote [WITHOUT CONTEXT]:

For example, if invent a new hammer
and sell your brother one for six dollars [yada, yada, yada]

Let me point out to you **once again** that posting without *context*
makes you look like a bozo.

And I'm sure that someone else owns the patent on generating posts that
"look like a bozo".

;-)

No, that would be a copyright. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

 

[Don Lancaster]

Suppose somebody invents (say) the antigravity motor and patents it.
Could I then jump on board with a patent which specified its use in
(say) aircraft and other 'obvious' applications?

Dirk

http://www.tinaja.com/patnt01.asp


--
Many thanks,

Don Lancaster voice phone: (928)428-4073
Synergetics 3860 West First Street Box 809 Thatcher, AZ 85552
rss: http://www.tinaja.com/whtnu.xml email: [email protected]

Please visit my GURU's LAIR web site at http://www.tinaja.com

 

[Keith Williams]

Wishful thinking. USPTO, unfortunately, allows just about anything through
since (some act in the 70s or 80s or 90s?).

That's the common "wisdom" in some parts. However it's far from
the truth. I have an "office action" with all claims denied,
sitting on my desk. Someone else submitted the basic idea, while
our lawyers were off playing with themselves. They snoozed, I
loozed. :-/

 

[Don Klipstein]

but if you do become interested in patenting something, I would pay
attention to establishing inventorship first, and making sure that
you don't release any version of your invention into the public domain.
For example, if invent a new hammer and sell your brother one for six
dollars, you've released it and it's not patentable... however if you
sign a deal with your brother with a lawyer present that the hammer is
yours and he is borrowing it, that might be ok.

Publishing details before applying for a patent may also jeopardize
your ability to get the patent.

I have heard enough elsewhere to make me feel confident that you have up
to 1 year after first sale or public use/demonstration of an invention to
file a patent application. I don't know if that includes provisional
applications, though.

Also, USA has some rule of "first to invent". You can ruin a competing
patent filed earlier than yours if you can prove that you had the
invention before the competitor did.

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Don Klipstein]

But I could stop aircraft manufacturers adopting AG drives?
That might be *very* profitable.

If I was to patent a AG drive:

Case 1 I was writing the patent application, Case 2 I had a patent
attorney do this.

Case 1: I know well enough about writing patent applications to
disclose useful applications and useful "extensions" and variations of the
invention, so as to either be able to claim or to at least keep a
competitor from patenting.

Case 2: If I don't know that well, then I had better have a patent
attorney do this, and any patent attorney failing to do this I should fire
for not serving my interests.

=========================

Now here is something I have been told:

Suppose I invent some superior cushion for a bar stool, and I could not
find much of a market for only cushions but I could find a market for bar
stools with cushions. But someone else has a current patent for the
cushioned bar stool (or maybe bar stools in general). What happens?
I can get a patent for my superior cushion, and even for bar stools with
this superior cushion. But I can't sell bar stools with this cushion
without negotiating an agreement with the other inventor that has the bar
stool patent!

- Don Klipstein ([email protected])

 

[Keith]

I have heard enough elsewhere to make me feel confident that you have up
to 1 year after first sale or public use/demonstration of an invention to
file a patent application. I don't know if that includes provisional
applications, though.

In the US, this is the case. One is barred from pattenting a widget one
year from disclosure or other "commercial advantage". Commercial
advantage may be an offer for sale of something using the invention
(either in the device itself or in the manufacturing process) or
disclosing the invention to a customer. Europe and Japan have no one year
period. Once disclosed you're barred from a patent.

Also, USA has some rule of "first to invent". You can ruin a
competing
patent filed earlier than yours if you can prove that you had the
invention before the competitor did.

I don't believe this is true anymore, but could be wrong here. It's first
to file now. If you hold something as a trade secret I believe someone
else can patent the invention out from under you. IIRC the US changed
this when they went from a 17 year patent (from date of issue) to 20 years
(from date of file).

 

[Keith]

On Sat, 04 Mar 2006 06:25:46 +0000, Don Klipstein wrote:

Now here is something I have been told:

Suppose I invent some superior cushion for a bar stool, and I could not
find much of a market for only cushions but I could find a market for bar
stools with cushions. But someone else has a current patent for the
cushioned bar stool (or maybe bar stools in general). What happens?
I can get a patent for my superior cushion, and even for bar stools with
this superior cushion. But I can't sell bar stools with this cushion
without negotiating an agreement with the other inventor that has the bar
stool patent!

This is exactly what happens. As was mentioned previously in this thread,
a patent is a negative instrument. It gives no right to the holder,
rather takes a right away to everyone else. The other inventor has taken
away your right to make bar stools and you've taken his right away to make
your superior cushion. Maybe the two of you can swap licenses for bar
stools and cushions and both can make money excluding everyone else
from making such a superior product?! This is exactly how industry
works; The lawyers sit around the poker table and trade stacks of patents
(sometimes along with cash).