Connect with us

Another Negative Ion Generator Question

Discussion in 'Electronic Basics' started by Technician, Jan 29, 2007.

  1. Technician

    Technician Guest

    I would like to know about the rules for what will impede negative ion
    flow (Ion wind) on the output of a negative ion generator.

    It's obvious a metal grill covering the exit portal is a bad idea, but
    what about a plastic grill, or even a small fan redirecting the flow of
    ions??

    Some people are saying the output needles must absolutely not have
    anything at all in front of them, and others say it's ok to have
    something in front of it such as a plastic grill or a fan as long as it
    is not a metallic structure.

    Additionally, will a fan actually aid in projecting the negative ions
    out into the surrounding atmosphere, or will the natural power of it's
    own ion wind be sufficient?

    I'm confused. can somebody shed some light on this subject please?
     
  2. All designs I have seen leave a minimum opening in front of each needle.
    It's a pretty weak 'wind'. I don't see why a fan would hurt if it is pushing
    and not pulling the air.


    --
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
    ..
     
  3. Technician

    Technician Guest

    This is where I get confused.
    I actually purchased a negative ion generator "air purifier" on ebay,
    just to see what makes it tick and was surprised at it's configuration.

    This particular design is one of those common tower form factor ones you
    see for sale at radio shack for around $200 with a dust collecting
    "plate" inside which can be removed for cleaning purposes. You can see a
    similar item here:

    http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-IONIC-AIR-PU...3QQihZ010QQcategoryZ14949QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    The high voltage unit is in the base, the metal collection cannister is
    in the center, (I assume positively charged or grounded?) and running
    parallel to the collector plate are 4 thin bare steel wires around it's
    perimeter, which I assume are responsible for emitting the negative
    ions. (I could be way off on my assumptions, which is why I'm posting
    here!)

    The flip up top which opens to allow removal of the cleaning plate also
    contains a round black fan (visible in the auction picture) which blows
    the air out an exit port in the front of the flip up lid. (the air is
    pulled out of the unit by the fan) I don't think there are any needles
    even in this design.

    Everything about this design goes against everything I've been told is
    the right way to design an ion generator, or a dust collector.
    This negative ion generator not only has something obstructing it's exit
    like a plastic grill, but also a powered fan!

    This makes me wonder if the "no moving parts" style negative ion
    generator dust collectors are more efficient at emitting negative ions
    but poorer at collecting dust, or are the models with fans more
    efficient air cleaners as they move more air across the plate, and are
    less efficient negative ion generators (less negative ion output into
    the surrounding air) because of the fan?
    Or are the ones with fans just plain more efficient in all aspects as
    the fan and other obstructions the negative ions come into contact with
    on the way out of the unit have no effect on them and the fan improves
    it's performance?

    I guess this is a more specific example of the concept I'm trying to
    understand.
    Once I understand the true proven design rules, then I can design my own
    more efficient purifiers.
    Thanks!
     
  4. This is where I get confused.
    I actually purchased a negative ion generator "air purifier" on ebay, just
    to see what makes it tick and was surprised at it's configuration.

    This particular design is one of those common tower form factor ones you see
    for sale at radio shack for around $200 with a dust collecting "plate"
    inside which can be removed for cleaning purposes. You can see a similar
    item here:

    http://cgi.ebay.ca/NEW-IONIC-AIR-PU...3QQihZ010QQcategoryZ14949QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

    The high voltage unit is in the base, the metal collection cannister is in
    the center, (I assume positively charged or grounded?) and running parallel
    to the collector plate are 4 thin bare steel wires around it's perimeter,
    which I assume are responsible for emitting the negative ions. (I could
    be way off on my assumptions, which is why I'm posting here!)

    The flip up top which opens to allow removal of the cleaning plate also
    contains a round black fan (visible in the auction picture) which blows the
    air out an exit port in the front of the flip up lid. (the air is pulled out
    of the unit by the fan) I don't think there are any needles even in this
    design.

    Everything about this design goes against everything I've been told is the
    right way to design an ion generator, or a dust collector.
    This negative ion generator not only has something obstructing it's exit
    like a plastic grill, but also a powered fan!

    This makes me wonder if the "no moving parts" style negative ion generator
    dust collectors are more efficient at emitting negative ions but poorer at
    collecting dust, or are the models with fans more efficient air cleaners as
    they move more air across the plate, and are less efficient negative ion
    generators (less negative ion output into the surrounding air) because of
    the fan?
    Or are the ones with fans just plain more efficient in all aspects as the
    fan and other obstructions the negative ions come into contact with on the
    way out of the unit have no effect on them and the fan improves it's
    performance?

    I guess this is a more specific example of the concept I'm trying to
    understand.
    Once I understand the true proven design rules, then I can design my own
    more efficient purifiers.
    Thanks!

    ==================================================================

    These things seem to be a cross between an ion generator and an
    electrostatic air cleaner. I'm not sure they do either well. The
    electrostatic air cleaners rely on the furnace fan to move the air. The ion
    generators don't normally use a fan AFAIK. Hope it helps.

    FWIW, if I wanted to fool around with a home design I recall articles on
    building both in back copies of Pop Electronics and / or Radio Electronics.
    Both are defunct, but bigger libraries have back copies for reference.
     
  5. dlzc

    dlzc Guest

    Dear Technician:

    Positively charged plate.
    Both, probably.
    No, you have guessed correctly. The radius of the charged surface
    affects the local potential for a given charge. The wires are a small
    radius, which yields a high local charge.
    Needles are not required.
    Turn it off and put in the garage. It collects lots of dust. ;>)
    If a patent relies on the charged air flow to move air, and you make
    one that has a powered air mover, you are not violating the patent.
    Neither and both, to some extent. Ionizing air makes ozone and other
    oxidants.
    Plastics can be statically conductive, depending on what they are
    "alloyed" with, and can be the positive plate.
    Good:
    1) don't use ion anything,
    2) don't use UV of longer wavelength than 254 nm,
    3) HEPA filter the air,
    4) carbon filter for chemical activity, probably bathed by UV,
    5) keep humidity at some settable value.

    Using ozone to occasionally chemically clean stuff is excellent.
    Chronic exposure by design is a lawsuit just waiting to happen.

    David A. Smith
     
Ask a Question
Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?
You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments (here). After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.
Electronics Point Logo
Continue to site
Quote of the day

-