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Another DST fiasco coming up?

A

Al

Jan 1, 1970
0
So, I suppose quite a few people have manually changed the clocks on
their devices to comply with the new DST changeover time.

Now, tell me what will happen when all those devices automatically
advance their clocks 1 hr in three weeks? Will all those people have to
now set their clocks back an hour?

Al
 
J

James T. White

Jan 1, 1970
0
Al said:
So, I suppose quite a few people have manually changed the clocks on
their devices to comply with the new DST changeover time.

Now, tell me what will happen when all those devices automatically
advance their clocks 1 hr in three weeks? Will all those people have
to now set their clocks back an hour?

Al,

Unless the devices have a way for the user to configure the start and
end of DST or a way of being "upgraded", that is exactly what will
happen.

And since Congress decided to change when DST ends, the times will need
to corrected in October and November as well.
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
And since Congress decided to change when DST ends, the times will need
to corrected in October and November as well.

And all based on 3 decades old data.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Yes, we realized that yesterday with our VCR. What a mess. If at least
the technology would have the smarts to sponge the actual time off some
info in the V-sync data packets but AFAIR that got botched pretty good.

Your VCR may actually have that feature, just read the manual.

Most, but not all, PBS stations have the correct time in the
vertical-blanking interval, and many VCR's utilize that information.

You just need to designate which channel is PBS (in the set-ups) for
it to work.

...Jim Thompson
 
D

Dave Pollum

Jan 1, 1970
0
So, I suppose quite a few people have manually changed the clocks on
their devices to comply with the new DST changeover time.

Now, tell me what will happen when all those devices automatically
advance their clocks 1 hr in three weeks? Will all those people have to
now set their clocks back an hour?

Al

I manually adjusted my PC's time, but until I read your post, I hadn't
even thought about my Win2K PC adjusting the time again in 3 weeks. I
just unchecked the "Automatically adjust clock for daylight savings
time" box, so I shouldn't have that problem.
-Dave Pollum
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Al said:
So, I suppose quite a few people
have manually changed the clocks on their devices
to comply with the new DST changeover time.

[...]what will happen when all those devices
automatically advance their clocks 1 hr in three weeks?

Got a ferinstance of a *device* that does this?

Even the most ancient of computer OSes which have a DST feature
have patches available.

As Thompson noted, a VCR that auto-sets its time
gets the data from the blanking interval.

I heard there is an interesting phenomena
where folks who live on the edge of a DST/non-DST area
change the channels on their VCR
and have the clock change back & forth.
 
J

James T. White

Jan 1, 1970
0
Dave Pollum said:
I manually adjusted my PC's time, but until I read your post, I hadn't
even thought about my Win2K PC adjusting the time again in 3 weeks. I
just unchecked the "Automatically adjust clock for daylight savings
time" box, so I shouldn't have that problem.

Dave,

Check the following site for a Win2K fix that allows you to set when DST
begins and ends? Worked great on mine.

http://support.microsoft.com/dst2007
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Al said:
So, I suppose quite a few people have manually changed the clocks on
their devices to comply with the new DST changeover time.

Now, tell me what will happen when all those devices automatically
advance their clocks 1 hr in three weeks? Will all those people have to
now set their clocks back an hour?

Yes, we realized that yesterday with our VCR. What a mess. If at least
the technology would have the smarts to sponge the actual time off some
info in the V-sync data packets but AFAIR that got botched pretty good.
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
I wish. And I'll never understand why they can't read time automatically.
Why can't it just scan all channels and figure out which is PBS? In this
day and age that ain't rocket science no more. Or pick up WWVB. Or
whatever. In med electronics they expect a whole lot more creativity out
of us consultants, and rightfully so. <shaking head>

Apparently some of the PBS channels broadcast not only this but also program
information for all channels.

See the Hauppauge manual on how to configure and get this info on your
computer. However the low ball TVs and VCRs in the US won't access this
information.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jim said:
Your VCR may actually have that feature, just read the manual.

I did. Our Panasonic Omnivision PV-7453 does not have that feature. Oh
well, I'll just turn the DST flag to off and it won't auto-change anymore.

I'll have to say, that VCR stuff is one of the things that was more
modern in Europe. At least in Germany. There, the remote had a built-in
barcode reader. All the movies and pretty much any other important
broadcast had a bar code next to it in the papers. Zzzip ... beep and it
shows up in the little LCD. Check that you didn't accidentally scan the
horror movie below it, hit "send", another beep and ... done. No need to
give it an extra half hour in case so-and-so can't stop babbling or some
soccer game went into overtime. Because then this bar code would be
matched against a movie ID in the V-sync so the VCR won't start
recording before that movie really shows up. Of course, if someone
wanted to tape that soccer game this technology would make sure that it
won't stop recording until the referee blew the whistle for the last
time. And all this was 15 years ago.

Most, but not all, PBS stations have the correct time in the
vertical-blanking interval, and many VCR's utilize that information.

You just need to designate which channel is PBS (in the set-ups) for
it to work.

I wish. And I'll never understand why they can't read time
automatically. Why can't it just scan all channels and figure out which
is PBS? In this day and age that ain't rocket science no more. Or pick
up WWVB. Or whatever. In med electronics they expect a whole lot more
creativity out of us consultants, and rightfully so. <shaking head>
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
So, I suppose quite a few people have manually changed the clocks on their
devices to comply with the new DST changeover time.

Now, tell me what will happen when all those devices automatically advance
their clocks 1 hr in three weeks? Will all those people have to now set
their clocks back an hour?

Oddly, when I came in this morning, the WWV clock was still on last
night's time, but all of the computers in my office had changed their
clocks.

But Doze probably got it from home, and I've got the Linux boxen on
NTPD. :)

Cheers!
Rich
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Homer said:
Apparently some of the PBS channels broadcast not only this but also program
information for all channels.

See the Hauppauge manual on how to configure and get this info on your
computer. However the low ball TVs and VCRs in the US won't access this
information.

Which is kind of strange, considering that the 15+ year old Blaupunkt
VCR did that and our newer Panasonic doesn't. When I cleaned that
Blaupunkt the inside sure looked like Panasonic to me.
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
Which is kind of strange, considering that the 15+ year old Blaupunkt
VCR did that and our newer Panasonic doesn't. When I cleaned that
Blaupunkt the inside sure looked like Panasonic to me.

My old Panasonic was so heavy it took two people to carry it.

...Jim Thompson
 
H

Homer J Simpson

Jan 1, 1970
0
My old Panasonic was so heavy it took two people to carry it.

My last Sanyo is so small and light I can lift it with a little finger.
 
P

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Al said:
So, I suppose quite a few people have manually changed the clocks on
their devices to comply with the new DST changeover time.

Now, tell me what will happen when all those devices automatically
advance their clocks 1 hr in three weeks? Will all those people have to
now set their clocks back an hour?

Al

Hmm. I'm not sure how Windows works. But with systems that are
DST-aware, I'd think that you'd want to change the DST start an end
times and not actually monkey with the clock.

Unix systems actually track everything in UTC, which should never be
bumped forwards or backwards. The timezone functions only serve to
modify the displayed value of time.
 
P

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Jan 1, 1970
0
JeffM said:
So, I suppose quite a few people
have manually changed the clocks on their devices
to comply with the new DST changeover time.

[...]what will happen when all those devices
automatically advance their clocks 1 hr in three weeks?

Got a ferinstance of a *device* that does this?

Even the most ancient of computer OSes which have a DST feature
have patches available.

As Thompson noted, a VCR that auto-sets its time
gets the data from the blanking interval.

From data transmitted in the blanking interval by the local station or
network that is. For an example of how well they keep their clocks
updated, I started scrolling through the HDTV program guides. The error
in station times ranges from 17 minutes slow, through one hour off
(those that haven't switched to DST) to 3 days slow. A few months ago,
one of the stations displayed a date some time in May as I recall.
I heard there is an interesting phenomena
where folks who live on the edge of a DST/non-DST area
change the channels on their VCR
and have the clock change back & forth.

If you are counting on the station techs to keep their clocks up to
date, good luck. You'd be better off with a VCR blinking "12:00". At
least its right twice a day.
 
P

Paul Hovnanian P.E.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Homer said:
Apparently some of the PBS channels broadcast not only this but also program
information for all channels.

DTV broadcasts have this data (mostly).
 
J

Jim Thompson

Jan 1, 1970
0
JeffM said:
So, I suppose quite a few people
have manually changed the clocks on their devices
to comply with the new DST changeover time.

[...]what will happen when all those devices
automatically advance their clocks 1 hr in three weeks?

Got a ferinstance of a *device* that does this?

Even the most ancient of computer OSes which have a DST feature
have patches available.

As Thompson noted, a VCR that auto-sets its time
gets the data from the blanking interval.

From data transmitted in the blanking interval by the local station or
network that is. For an example of how well they keep their clocks
updated, I started scrolling through the HDTV program guides. The error
in station times ranges from 17 minutes slow, through one hour off
(those that haven't switched to DST) to 3 days slow. A few months ago,
one of the stations displayed a date some time in May as I recall.

Doesn't that bug you? My PC's are synced to NIST, yet the TV behind
me will start a new program a good two minutes before the hour.
If you are counting on the station techs to keep their clocks up to
date, good luck. You'd be better off with a VCR blinking "12:00". At
least its right twice a day.

That's what I do. But then I don't use a VCR often enough to care. I
started to tape a show the other day only to find that the transport
mechanism had frozen up through disuse :-(

...Jim Thompson
 
J

JeffM

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul said:
Hmm. I'm not sure how Windows works.
But with systems that are DST-aware,
I'd think that you'd want to change the DST start [and] end times
and not actually monkey with the clock.
This is not a user option in Windoze.
You apply the available patches or you reset by hand.
The only option is a tickbox for Use/Don't use DST.
Unix systems actually track everything in UTC,
which should never be bumped forwards or backwards.
The timezone functions only serve to modify the displayed value of time.
I was under the impression that's how everybody does it.
 
J

Joerg

Jan 1, 1970
0
Paul said:
DTV broadcasts have this data (mostly).

I would sure hope so. Problem is, VCRs don't understand DTV and this
whole digital TV is far off for people like us. When I checked a month
ago there may be about three digital channels we could possibly receive
unless multipath thwarts that. In contrast to a dozen+ analog stations.
 
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