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"Analog hole" legislation introduced

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Winfield Hill, Dec 19, 2005.

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  1. Nothing special, just an observation. Many people can draw a rough
    map of the earth, but I guess many would make *large* mistakes about
    the proportions.
  2. Chris Carlen

    Chris Carlen Guest

    It isn't a "market" when the choices available to the consumer are
    dictated by the political system. You would be right if the content
    producers simply employed technology of their own choosing to protect
    their content. Instead they are seeking to use the government to
    prevent any other options from being available on the market. So "buy
    something else" isn't going to be an option if they get their way.

    This is not a free market, and won't be as long as Republican or
    Democrat statists are involved.

    Good day!

    Christopher R. Carlen
    Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
    Sandia National Laboratories CA USA

    NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
    "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
  3. John  Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    In (some?all?) Europe there is already a fee on writable media that's
    used to compensate content creators for presumed copying of their
    work. I have no idea how that might work in detail. As digital
    protections improve, I assume the fees will remain in place for the
    purposes of double-dipping. The Europeans also forbid grey marketing,
    allowing equipment and content providers to control prices on a
    country-by-country basis. They seem to have a law for almost any

    I think/hope it won't get that bad. There's always Linux.
    Well, those "media center" computers are selling like lead balloons.

  4. Chris Carlen

    Chris Carlen Guest

    You mean the American sheep, right?

    Good day!

    Christopher R. Carlen
    Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
    Sandia National Laboratories CA USA

    NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
    "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
  5. It really sucks that they're threatening to ban broadcast TV.

    I suppose I have to live within reality the way reality is, so - do people
    ever upgrade their DVD player and let the old one go really cheap? Like,
    would somebody want to donate one to a destitute old beggar like me, so
    I have something to do on those lonely nights besides read yesterday's

    And I wonder if "the powers that be" have considered what's going to
    happen in the ghettos and barrios when the TV goes away?

  6. Yeesis Yenny! I thought _I_ could write purple prose! Silly me!
    This stuff is classic!

  7. Rent??!!!???!?!???!!!

    Well, OK, that last one's a little OT, but I just filtered on "feet".

    There are still people who pay for porn? ?:-/

  8. Tim Shoppa

    Tim Shoppa Guest

    They'll start reading more books and doing more homework.

    At least that is truly my hope.

    Unfortunately my guess is that cable/satellite TV penetration into the
    ghettos/barrios is even greater than in rich neighborhoods (the
    fanciest house in my neighborhood has 5 little DirecTV satellite dishes
    on top, what the heck is that about?), and they won't notice at all
    when NTSC goes away. It's a far cry from the 60's or early 70's when
    nobody had cable and many poorer households didn't have TV at all.

  9. Not true. It is only _given_ away if the copyright owner explicitly states
    that he/she is giving it away.

    I can publish what I want, and still retain the copyright, even though I'm
    not making any money off it.

    But if somebody _else_ starts making money off my creations, then I have
    a case, albeit it still falls on my shoulders to _prove_ the case, and
    even then, I _still_ have to _get_ the money from him.

    Let's just kill all the politicians, then we can go back to the times when
    the honor system worked, because people had honor.

  10. Well, no, it is stealing, if the creator of the work has not expressly
    given you permission to give it away to others. If you're not making
    any money, I guess it's moot, but people do have a right to get paid
    for their work. We're not a totally socialistic society quite yet,
    thank you very much.

    Here, educate yourself:

  11. It is amusing that an intelligent person calling himself a
    "libertarian" is content with government granted artificial
    monopolies, as well as with limitations of [digital] speech.

    It is, further, even more amusing that you contrast "socialism" with
    "right to get paid for work". Which is ridiculous, as there is no
    "right to get paid for work" in a truly free, capitalist society.

    Instead, there is only a right to enter into voluntary transactions.


  12. You are correct.
    I see this difference as only slightly meaningful, and in no way
    supporting the copyright system.

    The reason why GNU copyright is defined the way it is, is to make the
    best way of providing free code to the public within the current
    copyright system (whose existence is objective reality). It is not the
    endorsement of the existing copyright system, only an acknowledgment
    of reality.

    Of the plethora of public licenses, I chose the GPL mostly to show my
    support of the free software movement.

    It is not actually true, as far as I know, one could take GPLed
    software and claim it as their own, borrow code etc, as long as they
    continue to provide the source code.
    That is not at all senseless. I agree with your last sentence.

  13. Mac

    Mac Guest

    IP is a poor choice of terminology, because there are a variety of types
    of intellectual property, and they are protected different ways with
    different laws.

    Here we are really just talking about copyright, I think. Trademarks and
    patents are other forms of IP, and they are protected with different laws.

    In general, violations of IP law are not theft.

  14. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    Don't people go to prison for bootlegging software and movies?

  15. Yes, voluntary. That means, for example, that even if I show you this
    little cartoon, , I still own the
    copyright, and if you take a copy of it and make money from it, you are
    making money that is rightfully mine, because I am the creator of the work.

    And I've stated it, in the cartoon itself, in its copyright notice.

    In this case, all I've asked for is acknowledgement, but even _that_
    seems to be beyond the comprehension of you socialist thieves' pea-

    The point is, if there is _any_ justification for "government", it
    should be along the lines of merely overseeing contractual disputes, such
    that justice is served, and each person gets what is rightfully theirs.[1]

    [1] Gawd, I hate that artificial construct! Before the bull dykes got
    all that political correctness bullshit crammed down our throats, the
    proper, accepted pronoun for "person of unknown or indeterminate gender"
    was "he". (and "him", "his", and so on.) And before you pounce on me
    for claiming to be a libertarian out of one side of my mouth while
    using terms like "bull dykes" and "bullshit" and "crammed down our throats"
    out of the other, I know there's a conflict there, but that's part of the
    adventure of discovering just what a complex universe I am all in and of
    myself! And there's still all of youse external guys to play with! I love
    it! :)
    [me, too! - Rich the Philosophizer]
    [me, too! - Rich Grise, but Drunk]
    {me, too! - Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie]
    {me, too! - Rich Grise, Self-Appointed Chief, Apostrophe Police]
    {me, too! - The Pig Bladder from Uranus]
    {me, too! - Rich the Newsgroup Wacko]
    {me, too! - Sandbox Moderator AKA Pig Bladder in drag]
    [I'm not so sure about this stuff - I need to save some woman from her
    sins - Jack the Ripper]

    "We have met the enemy, and he is us!" - Pogo Possum

  16. I think that is the least that will happen.
    How many people watch the same movie twice? Three times?
    I think sales of DVDs will suffer when video rental is simply a pushbutton away.


    The Consensus:-
    The political party for the new millenium
  17. Zak

    Zak Guest

    Can people only go to jail for theft?

    AFAIK the whole 'rights' thing is going too far. If you take a photo of
    a building, often you're not allowed to publish it because the architect
    (actually some organization that says they represent architects but do
    keep most money to themselves) claims copyright.

    As far as I'm concerned, he's given up on that right by placing that
    building out in the open - maybe I give him 5 minutes notice to take
    away the building before I take the picture, but that's it.

    Thi shas happened to the Eiffel tower and to a bridge in Rotterdam.
    Well, it is amazing, but "we will not go after tourists who take a
    picture for personal use". Aren't you glad about their generosity?

    I guess this means our economies will come to a standstill with only a
    few monopolies making money (oh, you knew that if you want money from
    public performance of your music you have to give the organization
    overseeing that ALL your rights, ...) while the 'pirate' economies can
    freely create, will create stuff that we want, and then use the rules we
    have here against us.

    How much _really_ original work is created and what is inspired by others?

  18. John Larkin

    John Larkin Guest

    I don't think anybody goes to jail for a thing the law calls simply
    "theft." That's an informal term. If you use somebody else's property,
    physical or intellectual, without permission, and it's a jailable,
    criminal felony, *I* call that "theft."

  19. Chris Carlen

    Chris Carlen Guest

    A libertarian doesn't assume anything regarding the need for a
    government, thus you can't assume that he is "content" about anything.

    What government granted monopoly? Having the right, via copyright law,
    to control what is done with one's work is not a monopoly, it is simply
    a property right. Whether the law that defines that property right and
    states that violating the authors terms of copyright is a crime or not
    doesn't imply the form of creation and enforcement of that law. It
    could be entirely private law.

    Good day!

    Christopher R. Carlen
    Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
    Sandia National Laboratories CA USA

    NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
    "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
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