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Alarm Purchase Help

D

David L

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm a newbie looking for an alarm system. I really know little about
alarm systems and am coming here in the hopes that I can learn enough to
ensure that I get the right system.

I live on Long Island and am looking for a professionally installed
system.

So far, I've contacted both General Security
(http://www.gensecurity.com)(I've been a happy oil customer of General
Utilities for a long time now) and Slomins (http://www.slomins.com).
Both are very large/well known installers/monitors here on Long Island.

I need to double check some things with General, but Slomins offered a
free fully hardwired system that includes a panel, keypad, siren, 1
motion detector, 1 smoke alarm, 3 door alarms and professional
installation. Window breaks were $125/window and I probably need around
10. A 2nd smoke alarm is another $150. 5 year CS contact at $25.95/mo.
The will connect the system to a VoIP service for free (if I wanted to
go that route).

Now, some questions.

1) Wired or Wireless? Forgetting about price, is fully wired a superior
solution?

2) I have no problem letting them make their money back on the install
over the life of the original contract, but I see there are many places
to get CS much cheaper (i.e. nextalarm.com). What questions do I need
to ask upfront to ensure that once my initial contract is up that I can
take my alarm system, without additional costs, to another CS? Should I
have the contract noted that they'll provide me with codes (installer
code? user code? what codes do I ask for?) upon completion of the
contract? How do I know that the equipment they'll provide is not
propriatary and will work with another CS without some sort of major
upgrade?

3) Where do I really need glass breaks? Cost is certainly a factor, so
I don't want glass breaks where I don't really need them. The house is
just off the street and I have nearby neighbors on all sides. The front
of the house has a clear view to the street (and to the neighbors across
the street). I have all new Anderson casement windows. I figure the
windows in the back that are 8 feet or less off the ground are definite.
What about windows near the ground right in the front of the house? Is
it necessary to glass break those? Would it be almost a total waste to
get glass breaks on windows that are 15 feet off the ground in the front
of the house? Are glass breaks the right item for Anderson casements?

3a) I'm a little confused as how the Slomin's rep counted the windows.
For example, I have 2 windows right next to each other. IIRC, when the
window people put it in, it's one big piece with 2 windows that open out
from each other. The Slomins rep counted that as one window as far as
glass breaks would be concerned. But there are 2 window panes, so I
don't understand how both panes are protected. I asked a few times and
she assured me it counted as one. But, then in another room, I have a
four panel casement (one piece) and it counted as 2. Can anyone explain
that?

4) Any other suggestions on additional items and position placement
(i.e. 2nd motion detector)? The house is a hi-ranch with an entrance
with stairs leading up to the bedrooms, kitchen and living room and
stairs leading down to the den.

5) My main phone is on a VoIP service now through the cable company. I
do have a 2nd line POTS (that I'm not sure if I'm keeping long term).
If the installer says they can get it to work on VoIP, is there any
reason not to? I also figure that if someone does try to cut a cable
out back, they might only figure to cut the phone line and not realize I
might be using the cable line for phone service. Also, Verizon is
wiring this area fast and there's a chance I might wind up with phone
service over their fiber eventually, I might not have a POTS line then.

6)Protectamerica.com looks really cheap. What's the gimmick/catch with
them? Crappy propriatary wireless alarm system?

Well, I know I've asked a lot here. Hopefully, someone could take the
time out to respond. Thanks in advance to all who do.

David
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Sir, you have asked a lot of questions and I certainly can't answer them all
in the contents of a post; however, there are a few givens that you should
be cautious of:

1- There is no such thing as a "free system". Figure out your costs over
five years when doing your comparison pricing between companies (get three
quotes). The basic system is written off over the term of the contract;
however, as you can see, add ons are usually expensive to try to make more
up front.
2- Alarms currently do not work RELIABLY over VoIP. Be extremely cautious of
anyone telling you otherwise !
3- Make sure you put it in the contract that they will default the installer
code back to factory at the end of the contract, or at the end of the time
when you are with them, whichever comes last. Also, ensure they write in
that they will unlock your panel once the system is paid for (at the end of
the first term). And, if you're dealing with a small company, make that
NEVER lock it ! With a big company, there's a better chance they will still
be around when it's time to unlock it !
4- The use of proprietary equipment seems to be falling out of favour.
However, it does still exist, and you can only take the word of the company
in this regard. Also, find out the make and model of panel they plan to
install and post it here. Someone can usually tell you..
5- Generally speaking, a hardwired system is better and more troublefree
over the longer term than wireless. Although today's wireless is very good,
it is usually best to go wired if possible.

There's a lot more to consider; however, the above may assist in a general
way.

R.H.Campbell
Home Security Metal Products
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
www.homemetal.com
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
Some responses inline....

| I'm a newbie looking for an alarm system. I really know little about
| alarm systems and am coming here in the hopes that I can learn enough to
| ensure that I get the right system.
|
| I live on Long Island and am looking for a professionally installed
| system.
|
| So far, I've contacted both General Security
| (http://www.gensecurity.com)(I've been a happy oil customer of General
| Utilities for a long time now) and Slomins (http://www.slomins.com).
| Both are very large/well known installers/monitors here on Long Island.
|
| I need to double check some things with General, but Slomins offered a
| free fully hardwired system that includes a panel, keypad, siren, 1
| motion detector, 1 smoke alarm, 3 door alarms and professional
| installation. Window breaks were $125/window and I probably need around
| 10. A 2nd smoke alarm is another $150. 5 year CS contact at $25.95/mo.
| The will connect the system to a VoIP service for free (if I wanted to
| go that route).
|
| Now, some questions.
|
| 1) Wired or Wireless? Forgetting about price, is fully wired a superior
| solution?

If the house can be wired cost effectively then go that route. These days
wireless is great, and very reliable but there is an overhead down the
road....transmitter batteries last 3-5 years there is one in each
door/window transmitter and two in PIRs and some glassbreaks. I sell the
CR123s for 6 bucks each, but if you buy them at Walgreens they're like 8
bucks each...you do the math.

Anderson windows are a PITA to post wire, btw.

A wireless goes in relatively quickly, but there are a few wires to run. A
post-wired house takes much longer.



|
| 2) I have no problem letting them make their money back on the install
| over the life of the original contract, but I see there are many places
| to get CS much cheaper (i.e. nextalarm.com). What questions do I need
| to ask upfront to ensure that once my initial contract is up that I can
| take my alarm system, without additional costs, to another CS? Should I
| have the contract noted that they'll provide me with codes (installer
| code? user code? what codes do I ask for?) upon completion of the
| contract? How do I know that the equipment they'll provide is not
| propriatary and will work with another CS without some sort of major
| upgrade?
|
Kinda tricky starting off a relationship with a company asking questions
about how to move on later...but...

They won't give you the Installer code (I wouldn't either) but have them put
it in writing that IF you ever decide to leave after the initial term of the
contract is furfilled by you that they WILL remote program the Installer
code and unlock any programming lockouts so that you can move on IF you
want. Any reputable company wouldn't object to doint his...if you don't owe
them money or something.

First Alert products like General Alarm sells is actually Ademco stuff that
can be taken-over by anyone that knows Ademco (who doesnt)..but a company
like Brinks sells only proprietary stuff that cannot be taken over. There
are others that do this as well...make sure you're not buying proprietary
stuff that can only report to they're own company.


| 3) Where do I really need glass breaks? Cost is certainly a factor, so
| I don't want glass breaks where I don't really need them. The house is
| just off the street and I have nearby neighbors on all sides. The front
| of the house has a clear view to the street (and to the neighbors across
| the street). I have all new Anderson casement windows. I figure the
| windows in the back that are 8 feet or less off the ground are definite.
| What about windows near the ground right in the front of the house? Is
| it necessary to glass break those? Would it be almost a total waste to
| get glass breaks on windows that are 15 feet off the ground in the front
| of the house? Are glass breaks the right item for Anderson casements?
|

Glassbreaks are great I have them in every room of my house including the
upper level...but you have to be part of the design...what is your comfort
level/cost/whatever?

Anderson's if latched properly are almost impossible to jimmy opened, imo.
The proper mix of contacted windows & glassbreaks is up to you, your wallet
and some help from your alarm professional...if he/she is good and can think
like a burglar you should be able to come up with effective coverage.


| 3a) I'm a little confused as how the Slomin's rep counted the windows.
| For example, I have 2 windows right next to each other. IIRC, when the
| window people put it in, it's one big piece with 2 windows that open out
| from each other. The Slomins rep counted that as one window as far as
| glass breaks would be concerned. But there are 2 window panes, so I
| don't understand how both panes are protected. I asked a few times and
| she assured me it counted as one. But, then in another room, I have a
| four panel casement (one piece) and it counted as 2. Can anyone explain
| that?
|
Acoustic glassbreaks can cover a large area...usually 15-30 feet depending
on pattern, room acoustics, shutters, blinds, drapery and other stuff (sound
does not travel well around corners).


| 4) Any other suggestions on additional items and position placement
| (i.e. 2nd motion detector)? The house is a hi-ranch with an entrance
| with stairs leading up to the bedrooms, kitchen and living room and
| stairs leading down to the den.

Hard to tell without seeing a floor plan. I usually like to use a mix of
glassbreaks AND motion detectors...and of course contact all exterior
operable doors and windows.

|
| 5) My main phone is on a VoIP service now through the cable company. I
| do have a 2nd line POTS (that I'm not sure if I'm keeping long term).
| If the installer says they can get it to work on VoIP, is there any
| reason not to? I also figure that if someone does try to cut a cable
| out back, they might only figure to cut the phone line and not realize I
| might be using the cable line for phone service. Also, Verizon is
| wiring this area fast and there's a chance I might wind up with phone
| service over their fiber eventually, I might not have a POTS line then.

Avoid VoIP it's not reliable...it might work for a week then stop...PITA.

You definitely want your system to send a daily test signal...not weekly,
not monthly...but every day.

Next Alarm... they're not real...read other posts about them...you probably
wanna stay away from these guys.

Fiber won't come into your home..I have fiber up to the box down the
road...it's still a regular phone line into my house.

If you're concerned about phone line cuts consider a radio backup.


|
| 6)Protectamerica.com looks really cheap. What's the gimmick/catch with
| them? Crappy propriatary wireless alarm system?

My grandfather had a saying: "Cheap is dear"


|
| Well, I know I've asked a lot here. Hopefully, someone could take the
| time out to respond. Thanks in advance to all who do.

Ask your friends/neighbors if they are happy with their alarmco. Go with
someone you like...you are buying a relationship, service, knowledge - the
equipment used is almost secondary (almost). I have clients that have been
using us for 20 years, I've seen their kids grow up, and I've installed
alarm after alarm for them as they grew from start homes to huge houses.
It's not all about the money.


|
| David
|
|
 
D

David L

Jan 1, 1970
0
Good help, thanks. No, it's not all about the price. I want a decent
system, installed correctly at a competitive price. I think that's
reasonable to expect and that's why I'm attempting to do the research.

Just as an FYI on the Fiber, Verizon's FIOS project is indeed FTTH. When
they wire up a house, they wire the fiber right to the house and cut the
copper line forever. It's costing them a fortune up front, obviously. I
figure they'll get to me in the next year or two at the pace they are
going.

Thanks again for your responses so far.
 
M

mikey

Jan 1, 1970
0
Long Island? Isn't that Jim's neck of the woods?
If you are indeed looking for a professionally installed system,
he's the guy
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
I may be mistaken, but I still think it's copper inside your house, not FO.



| Good help, thanks. No, it's not all about the price. I want a decent
| system, installed correctly at a competitive price. I think that's
| reasonable to expect and that's why I'm attempting to do the research.
|
| Just as an FYI on the Fiber, Verizon's FIOS project is indeed FTTH. When
| they wire up a house, they wire the fiber right to the house and cut the
| copper line forever. It's costing them a fortune up front, obviously. I
| figure they'll get to me in the next year or two at the pace they are
| going.
|
| Thanks again for your responses so far.
|
|
| |
| > Some responses inline....
| >
| > Avoid VoIP it's not reliable...it might work for a week then
| > stop...PITA.
| >
| > You definitely want your system to send a daily test signal...not
| > weekly, not monthly...but every day.
| >
| > Next Alarm... they're not real...read other posts about them...you
| > probably wanna stay away from these guys.
| >
| > Fiber won't come into your home..I have fiber up to the box down the
| > road...it's still a regular phone line into my house.
| >
 
D

David L

Jan 1, 1970
0
OT here, but yes, it's fiber to a box at the back of the house. They don't
rewire your whole house with fiber.
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
Thats easy, just change your name to Robert Bass and he'll come running :)
 
R

R.H.Campbell

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hehehe...good one ! Wish I'd thought of that comeback....:))

RHC
 
J

Jackcsg

Jan 1, 1970
0
So The Slomin's system will cost you around $ 2,957.00
Thank God it's free! Look for more dealers who'll deceive you, or find a
smaller dealer who is an actual professional, not a salesman.
 
D

David L

Jan 1, 1970
0
That's what I did. I had a local dealer come in that I found on
servicemagic.com.

He suggested an Ademco Vista 20P wireless system, 3 doors (the sliding
french door will also get a shock), 8 windows (the ones in the rear
accessible from the ground), 2 smoke detectors, 2 motion detectors, siren,
slightly upgraded keypad (the one that talks and has more descriptive
info), battery backup, RX31x phone jack and a keychain remote. Came to
about $1100 and $26.99/mo (local and UL Listed) with a 36 month term.

He'll reset the system to default any time after 36 months. Contract
renews month to month after 36 months.

Anything missing? How's the Vista 20P?

This seemed to be a pretty good deal for me.

He was much more professional and knowledgable than the Slomin's rep. He
spent a good hour and a half with me on a Saturday evening.

Thanks!
David
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
20P is fine. Sounds like a fair deal too.



| That's what I did. I had a local dealer come in that I found on
| servicemagic.com.
|
| He suggested an Ademco Vista 20P wireless system, 3 doors (the sliding
| french door will also get a shock), 8 windows (the ones in the rear
| accessible from the ground), 2 smoke detectors, 2 motion detectors, siren,
| slightly upgraded keypad (the one that talks and has more descriptive
| info), battery backup, RX31x phone jack and a keychain remote. Came to
| about $1100 and $26.99/mo (local and UL Listed) with a 36 month term.
|
| He'll reset the system to default any time after 36 months. Contract
| renews month to month after 36 months.
|
| Anything missing? How's the Vista 20P?
|
| This seemed to be a pretty good deal for me.
|
| He was much more professional and knowledgable than the Slomin's rep. He
| spent a good hour and a half with me on a Saturday evening.
|
| Thanks!
| David
|
| [email protected]:
|
| > So The Slomin's system will cost you around $ 2,957.00
| > Thank God it's free! Look for more dealers who'll deceive you, or find a
| > smaller dealer who is an actual professional, not a salesman.
| >
|
 
A

alarman

Jan 1, 1970
0
David L said:
Who is Jim and how do I reach him then?

Look for a 70-year-old geezer in a checkered shirt with a pocket protector
driving an orange 1978 Dodge van with no bumpers. He hangs out at Wal Mart
in the vitamin aisle
js
 
C

Crash Gordon

Jan 1, 1970
0
ps. most salesmen don't know nuttin' abt alarms except how to stick their
foot in your door.

when I had a sales staff, I made everyone of them actually install alarms
before I let them go out and sell...that got rid of a few I tell ya.


| 20P is fine. Sounds like a fair deal too.
|
|
|
| || That's what I did. I had a local dealer come in that I found on
|| servicemagic.com.
||
|| He suggested an Ademco Vista 20P wireless system, 3 doors (the sliding
|| french door will also get a shock), 8 windows (the ones in the rear
|| accessible from the ground), 2 smoke detectors, 2 motion detectors,
siren,
|| slightly upgraded keypad (the one that talks and has more descriptive
|| info), battery backup, RX31x phone jack and a keychain remote. Came to
|| about $1100 and $26.99/mo (local and UL Listed) with a 36 month term.
||
|| He'll reset the system to default any time after 36 months. Contract
|| renews month to month after 36 months.
||
|| Anything missing? How's the Vista 20P?
||
|| This seemed to be a pretty good deal for me.
||
|| He was much more professional and knowledgable than the Slomin's rep. He
|| spent a good hour and a half with me on a Saturday evening.
||
|| Thanks!
|| David
||
|| [email protected]:
||
|| > So The Slomin's system will cost you around $ 2,957.00
|| > Thank God it's free! Look for more dealers who'll deceive you, or find
a
|| > smaller dealer who is an actual professional, not a salesman.
|| >
||
|
|
 
M

Mark Leuck

Jan 1, 1970
0
alarman said:
Look for a 70-year-old geezer in a checkered shirt with a pocket protector
driving an orange 1978 Dodge van with no bumpers. He hangs out at Wal Mart
in the vitamin aisle
js

You mean the Geritol and Depends aisle don't you?
 
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