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Alarm circuit with and gates?

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by kash, Jul 10, 2003.

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  1. kash

    kash Guest

    I remember quite a log time ago someone built an intermittent alarm sound
    circuit with an IC of 4 and gates (perhaps it was or or xor, not 100% sure)
    Does anyone know what I'm talking about ? It may be that the 555 was
    also used, not sure, can we create an oscillation with just a couple of and
    gates?
     
  2. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    ---
    Yeah, sure.

    Or maybe that was three and gates. Shouldn't an odd number give you the
    inversion you need?

    Or maybe that should be two nands, an xor and an and or an or or a nor?
    Or not? I don't remember, it's sooooo confusing.
     
  3. kash

    kash Guest

    Come to think of it, yes I do think it was nand actually. They must have been
    all of the same type since this is how they come as IC's.
    I wish I had the circuit, perhaps you could post a circuit?
     
  4. kash

    kash Guest

    1. Yes, it's good, why do we use the extra two top gates, is it for isolation
    from the oscillation part, if so, why use both top nands, one should be
    enough?

    2. Now how can we get an on-off oscillation? maybee we can use the
    top nands as an oscillator of about 1hz to control the Enable of the
    bottom oscillator, but then we won't have en extra gate as a buffer
     
  5. Ken Taylor

    Ken Taylor Guest

    Using digital stuff in this way is evil, but that's just a philospohical
    point. :) The two top NAND's are cleaning up the waveform and buffering. To
    switch it on and off at, say, 1Hz, replace the 'make' switch with another
    similar circuit set for 1Hz.

    Cheers.

    Ken
     
  6. Chances are it was the CD4093.
    A schmitt trigger quad dual input NAND.
    It has a wide supply range, also.

    In terms of functionality within one part, you can do an awful
    lot with this single, cheap, chip. One NAND alone can be a gated
    oscillator, for instance, or you can cross couple two of them to
    get an RS flip flop while still retaining schmitt trigger inputs.

    No, I can't post circuits - as Ken Taylor said - use search engines.
     
  7. N. Thornton

    N. Thornton Guest


    Instead of using a 4x NAND, use a hex schmitt invertor. Lots more
    games you can play per chip that way.

    Regards, NT
     
  8. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    ---
    Thanks, but there's a mistake in the timing diagram. With '132's in the
    circuit shown, the timing will look like this:


    ______________________ ___________
    Y1_____| |________________________|

    ______ _ _ _ _ _ _________________________ _ _
    Y2 |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_


    For the timing to look like this:


    ______________________ ___________
    Y1____| |________________________|

    _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
    Y2____| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_| |_________________________| |_| |_| |_

    The gates in the circuit need to be HC 7002's (Schmitt trigger NORs)
     
  9. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    ---
    That's not the point. What matters is what happens when it comes to
    rest. Using NANds, the output of the circuit will be high when it's
    inactive, meaning that if you're low-side driving a DC coupled load
    connected to the+ rail it will always be on when the circuit isn't
    oscillating. By using Nors the output always goes low when the circuit
    is idle.
     
  10. kash

    kash Guest

    What is a low-side DC coupled load ?
     
  11. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    I have no idea, but what I was talking about looks like this, where the
    load is driven by connecting and disconnecting it from the low side
    (GND) of the supply. In this case, the transistor is called a low-side
    switch.

    Assuming that you want a gated oscillator which oscillates when an input
    line is in one state and doesn't oscillate when the input line is in the
    opposite state, looking over this circuit a little more closely yields
    that is has problems for your application whether NANDs or NORs are
    used.

    +V
    |
    [LOAD]
    ON/OFF>-------A |
    NAND Y1--+-------A C
    +----B | NAND Y2--+--[R]---B
    | | +----B | E
    +---[R]----+ | | |
    | +---[R]----+ GND
    [C] |
    | [C]
    GND |
    GND

    Looking at a truth table for the circuit yields, for NANDs:

    ON/OFF Y1 Y2
    ------|----|----
    0 1 OSC
    1 OSC OSC

    And for NORs,

    ON/OFF Y1 Y2
    ------|----|----
    0 OSC OSC
    1 0 OSC

    So no matter what, the output will either be oscillating continuously or
    oscillating periodically!


    The following will work, albeit with a price increase of an extra chip!
    I'm sure there are other thriftier configurations which will work, so
    why don't you get out a pecil and some paper and see whether you can
    figure something out?

    +V
    |
    [LOAD]
    ON/OFF>-------A |
    NAND Y1--+-------A C
    +----B | NOR Y2--+--[R]---B
    | | +----B | E
    +---[R]----+ | | |
    | +---[R]----+ GND
    [C] |
    | [C]
    GND |
    GND

    ON/OFF Y1 Y2
    ------|----|----
    0 1 O
    1 OSC OSC
     
  12. Jim Thompson

    Jim Thompson Guest

    See "CMOS-Osc-NoClip.pdf" on the S.E.D/Schematics page of my website.
    Changing one inverter to a gate will allow stopping and starting.

    ...Jim Thompson
     
  13. roma

    roma Guest

    see page 18 http://members.shaw.ca/roma
    roma
     
  14. kash

    kash Guest

    No no, this is absolutely fine, I don't need an on/off switck, just
    need an intermittant alarm.

     
  15. John Fields

    John Fields Guest

    ---
    "Gated" oscillator, Jim.

    A high (or low) in will allow the thing to run and output a particular
    frequency for a while and then nothing for a while and then...

    OTOH, a low (or a high) input will shut it down.

    Exchanging a gate for an inverter in your circuit will allow stopping
    and starting, but it won't allow stopping and starting on a periodic
    basis unless there's another oscillator in there toggling the start/stop
    line and an input to control the gating oscillator and the "off" state
    of the output.
     
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