Adding missing SATA connectors to motherboard

[larry moe 'n curly]

I have some motherboards designed for 4-6 SATA ports, but only 2 SATA
connectors were installed, and I'd like to add the missing connectors
plus any needed termination resistors.
Here's an example with an ECS GeForce 6100SM-M v. 1.0 motherboard:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3184157863_64b349938d_o.jpg

What are the values of the missing resistors? I thought that each
pair of SATA data lines needed one 100 ohm resistor between them, but
on this circuit board the resistors seem to be arranged differently.

 

[Conor]

I have some motherboards designed for 4-6 SATA ports, but only 2 SATA
connectors were installed, and I'd like to add the missing connectors
plus any needed termination resistors.
Here's an example with an ECS GeForce 6100SM-M v. 1.0 motherboard:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3184157863_64b349938d_o.jpg

What are the values of the missing resistors? I thought that each
pair of SATA data lines needed one 100 ohm resistor between them, but
on this circuit board the resistors seem to be arranged differently.

You're assuming that the second SATA controller exists to utilize them.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

I have some motherboards designed for 4-6 SATA ports, but only 2 SATA
connectors were installed, and I'd like to add the missing connectors
plus any needed termination resistors.
Here's an example with an ECS GeForce 6100SM-M v. 1.0 motherboard:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3184157863_64b349938d_o.jpg

What are the values of the missing resistors? I thought that each
pair of SATA data lines needed one 100 ohm resistor between them, but
on this circuit board the resistors seem to be arranged differently.

There is usually a bit more to it than simply attaching the SATA
connectors. The BIOS ALSO has to support it, and since THAT MOBO did NOT
have those ports, you will not be able to find a BIOS for that MOBO that
will have those ports in it. SO even with the right parts, the BIOS on
the model MOBO does not support your "need".

After all the hours you would spend, you could SIMPLY go BUY another,
proper motherboard. That is, unless your personal time is only worth
minimum wage. In that case, you will likely fail for other reasons.

My personal time is worth a couple hundred bucks an hour, so if I can
buy it cheaper than spending hours upon hours trying to fudge the fucking
thing to existence, I'll be spending the cash, and keeping my personal
time for better hobby tasks.

This is an exercise in futility, not to mention a big waste of time,
even if all you needed to install was the connector. Just sourcing the
right part alone might be difficult, since they do NOT all match.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

You're assuming that the second SATA controller exists to utilize them.

Even if a chip is in place that has unused ports on it, the MOBO BIOS
will not carry them.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

You're assuming that the second SATA controller exists to utilize them.

Yes, and apparently the NVidia chipset does support additional SATA
devices. I don't know if the BIOS does, and it's possible that a
termination voltage source/sink isn't there fro the extra SATA
connectors.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

If the OP is LUCKY he can research this and maybe find another who has
successfully done this. But I doubt this will be the case. I've
modified a SATA mobo to have RAID ports where non existed in the stock
BIOS by flashing a BIOS with RAID support. However the hardware was
already on the board.

Oh yeah sure, PlowTard. You've just done fucking everything.

Making shit up as you go along makes you even more transparent than you
already were.

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

There is usually a bit more to it than simply attaching the SATA
connectors. The BIOS ALSO has to support it, and since THAT MOBO did NOT
have those ports, you will not be able to find a BIOS for that MOBO that
will have those ports in it. SO even with the right parts, the BIOS on
the model MOBO does not support your "need".

After all the hours you would spend,

Hours??? Similar mods in the past took me 20 minutes, including the
time to desolder the parts from a junked mobo.

you could SIMPLY go BUY another, proper motherboard.

That would entail a 500' walk to Fry's Electronics.

That is, unless your personal time is only worth
minimum wage. In that case, you will likely fail for other reasons.

My personal time is worth a couple hundred bucks an hour,

If I got paid that much, I'd also take hours to do this job.

This is an exercise in futility, not to mention a big waste of time,
even if all you needed to install was the connector. Just sourcing the
right part alone might be difficult, since they do NOT all match.

I don't see any problem except possibly an active termination voltage
regulator, but because differential signals are involved, I assume
that only ordinary resistors are used.

Just curious: How many times have you done mods like this?

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

After all the hours you would spend, you could SIMPLY go BUY another,
proper motherboard. That is, unless your personal time is only worth
minimum wage. In that case, you will likely fail for other reasons.

My personal time is worth a couple hundred bucks an hour, so if I can
buy it cheaper than spending hours upon hours trying to fudge the fucking
thing to existence, I'll be spending the cash, and keeping my personal
time for better hobby tasks.


Oh yeah sure, PlowTard. You've just done fucking everything.

Making shit up as you go along makes you even more transparent than you
already were.

For some reason, I no longer believe that your time is worth a couple
hundred $$$ an hour.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

I have some motherboards designed for 4-6 SATA ports, but only 2 SATA
connectors were installed, and I'd like to add the missing connectors
plus any needed termination resistors.
Here's an example with an ECS GeForce 6100SM-M v. 1.0 motherboard:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3184157863_64b349938d_o.jpg

What are the values of the missing resistors? I thought that each
pair of SATA data lines needed one 100 ohm resistor between them, but
on this circuit board the resistors seem to be arranged differently.

The "resistors" at the SATA4 connector appear to be labelled as
C151-4. This begs the question, what are caps doing on a high speed
interface?

This URL talks about 100 ohm termination resistors across the two
signal pairs:
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_Serial_ATA.html

This URL suggests that 20K pullup and pulldown resistors may sometimes
be used in noisy environments:
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_RS644.html

- Franc Zabkar

 

[Franc Zabkar]

Yes, and apparently the NVidia chipset does support additional SATA
devices. I don't know if the BIOS does, and it's possible that a
termination voltage source/sink isn't there fro the extra SATA
connectors.

There exist utilities (eg AMIBCP) that can enable hidden features in
your BIOS. It could be that your additional SATA ports are supported,
but they may have been turned off by default.

For example, count the "not active" features in this AMI BIOS:
http://www.users.on.net/~fzabkar/340S8/BIOSNOTV.RPT

- Franc Zabkar

 

[Paul]

The "resistors" at the SATA4 connector appear to be labelled as
C151-4. This begs the question, what are caps doing on a high speed
interface?

This URL talks about 100 ohm termination resistors across the two
signal pairs:
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_Serial_ATA.html

This URL suggests that 20K pullup and pulldown resistors may sometimes
be used in noisy environments:
http://www.interfacebus.com/Design_Connector_RS644.html

- Franc Zabkar

I could find a reference to AC or DC coupling here. (I bet
some sata-io.org document would cover this in more detail.)

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/3527s.pdf

I have an Intel sample schematic where the 1.5Gb/sec SATA interface
was DC coupled. And can also find examples with AC coupling.

Pg. 8 here uses 10nF capacitors.

http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX4951.pdf

PCI Express uses AC coupling, and also uses 8B10B coding
like SATA does. At least with PCI Express, coupling caps
are used consistently.

Paul

 

[[email protected]]

I have some motherboards designed for 4-6 SATA ports, but only 2 SATA
connectors were installed, and I'd like to add the missing connectors
plus any needed termination resistors.
Here's an example with an ECS GeForce 6100SM-M v. 1.0 motherboard:

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3397/3184157863_64b349938d_o.jpg

What are the values of the missing resistors? I thought that each
pair of SATA data lines needed one 100 ohm resistor between them, but
on this circuit board the resistors seem to be arranged differently.

Hello,
I am not an expert, but the caps you see are the coupling caps.
The termination resistor would be at the end of the line, not the
middle.
I'm not sure what the value of the cap would be, but 100nF is a good
start.
I could be wildly wrong about the value, I know nothing of the SATA
specs.

 

[Franc Zabkar]

I could find a reference to AC or DC coupling here. (I bet
some sata-io.org document would cover this in more detail.)

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/3527s.pdf

I have an Intel sample schematic where the 1.5Gb/sec SATA interface
was DC coupled. And can also find examples with AC coupling.

Pg. 8 here uses 10nF capacitors.

http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX4951.pdf

PCI Express uses AC coupling, and also uses 8B10B coding
like SATA does. At least with PCI Express, coupling caps
are used consistently.

Paul

Thanks again. I'd always thought AC coupling wasn't necessary when the
two devices at either end of the cable were differentially coupled or
powered from the same supply. I tend to associate AC coupling with
analogue circuits rather than digital.

- Franc Zabkar

 

[Eeyore]

For some reason, I no longer believe that your time is worth a couple
hundred $$$ an hour.

Minimum wage more like. Probably still lives with Mom and Dad.

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

Are nVidia 430 and 410 pin-compatible, at least enough that
ECS did what they do best, economized by using the same PCB
layout for either possibility? That seems to be the
problem, use of 410 chipset which only supports 2 SATA ports
instead of 430 chipset which supports 4. Unless nVidia is
pulling a fast one and 410 is just a whole 430 chip
rebranded that manufacturers have agreed not to implement
all 4 SATA ports on, it seems having the 410 is the
show-stopper.

Are the data sheets online ?

Graham

 

[Eeyore]

I could find a reference to AC or DC coupling here. (I bet
some sata-io.org document would cover this in more detail.)

http://www.atmel.com/dyn/resources/prod_documents/3527s.pdf

I have an Intel sample schematic where the 1.5Gb/sec SATA interface
was DC coupled. And can also find examples with AC coupling.

Pg. 8 here uses 10nF capacitors.

http://pdfserv.maxim-ic.com/en/ds/MAX4951.pdf

PCI Express uses AC coupling, and also uses 8B10B coding
like SATA does. At least with PCI Express, coupling caps
are used consistently.

Checking out the existing components used in those locations would be
helpful. Can the OP read the markings on them ?

And I bet an application note or two might come in handy too.

As elsewhere mentioned, the BIOS setup may be the most tricky stumbling
block, but there are people around who know how to mod them.

Graham

 

[larry moe 'n curly]

Uphill both ways!

I live in Phoenix. What do you mean by "hill"?

The resistors you could probably just measure, since they're
present for the other two ports. "IF" all other elements of
doing this were in place, at most the bios would have the
feature hidden but still present logically if the capability
were otherwise present.

Are nVidia 430 and 410 pin-compatible, at least enough that
ECS did what they do best, economized by using the same PCB
layout for either possibility? That seems to be the
problem, use of 410 chipset which only supports 2 SATA ports
instead of 430 chipset which supports 4. Unless nVidia is
pulling a fast one and 410 is just a whole 430 chip
rebranded that manufacturers have agreed not to implement
all 4 SATA ports on, it seems having the 410 is the
show-stopper.

This mobo has an nVidia 405 chipset.
You've made the case for me to give up on this project.

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

He's obviously never done this kind of thing so the hours
are needed to assemble the tools and practice.

You're obviously an idiot.

It wouldn't
be especially hard to solder given practice with similar
work,

Multi-layer boards *are* difficult to work with. Try removing through
hole devices on an 0.092" thick PCB. I can certainly do simple SMD work.
I have both laid down more fresh lead as well as reworked more assemblies
than you probably ever will. I was working on electronic assemblies back
in the seventies. You know... before you were even born, punk.

I know more about soldering and connections between metals than you
ever will.

would be harder to find an incompatible SATA header
than an compatible one, and indeed is a 20 minute job if the
board's not already in a fully assembled system.

Now this 'kony' retard is talking about rework and post fit operations
in an *installed system*, and he claims that *I* don't have any
experience.

Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

 

[Archimedes' Lever]

I live in Phoenix. What do you mean by "hill"?

The slight incline that the flood rushes down toward you on.

 

[[email protected]]

Multi-layer boards *are* difficult to work with. Try removing through
hole devices on an 0.092" thick PCB.

I let my technicians do that work for me.

I can certainly do simple SMD work.

My technicians can do very complicated SMD work.

I have both laid down more fresh lead as well as reworked more assemblies
than you probably ever will. I was working on electronic assemblies back
in the seventies. You know... before you were even born, punk.

Sounds like you were an assembler before being a technician?

I know more about soldering and connections between metals than you
ever will.

I let my technicians worry about good solder joints.

Now this 'kony' retard is talking about rework and post fit operations
in an *installed system*, and he claims that *I* don't have any
experience.

I think you have lots of technician level experience, based upon your
comments here. In our company a technician with an attitudde like
your would not last very long though. Only the very best engineers
can have an attitude, in my experience.

Bwuahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

pretty cocky for being a technician.