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absolute noob trying to start

Discussion in 'General Electronics Discussion' started by donkey, Feb 26, 2011.

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  1. donkey

    donkey

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    Feb 26, 2011
    ok so i have an idea but am having problems getting schematics. for starters as i am a hobbyist the design is for a 12volt system. i am hoping to get a tri-power system. I want a 12volt deepcycle battery- which will be charged via a solar panel or mains but this will be controlled via a switch, i will use a secondary solar panel/ wind generator and lastly a 12volt transformer running of our 240volt mains powers, am hoping to run this into a transformer which i can use to select voltages in 1.5volts steps up to 12volts so i can run experiments. I think i have bitten of more than i can chew with desigining it but with luck i will be able to have a good setup that will not raise my electricity bill as i experiment.
    oh last thing fuses and lights
    need fuses for safety and lights so i can see what power source is being used, hopefully a meter to read power output from solar and wind gen, and power meter to see how full the battery is. i was thinking of trial and error on the 12volt systems which is ok, but the switching and 240v-12v systems are a little beyond my capabilities
     
  2. davenn

    davenn Moderator

    13,866
    1,958
    Sep 5, 2009
    ok

    as a start for you to plan your system do a block diagram of the system you want,
    do that for each section of the system and then work out where each section interacts with another section... I dont want to do the whole thing for you but here is a starting point :)
    eg......

    Solar panels ---> regulator/charger ---> 12V Battery Bank ---> Variable Regulator ---> Projects
    240VAC - 14V DC Charger ------------------------^

    240VAC to 1.5 - 12VDC Variable PSU ---> Projects

    etc

    Lay it out with boxes drawn around each section of text. Once layed, out then you can start looking at each section and decide on what you need to complete them.
    eg. decisions of if you will build or buy a regulator/charger unit to go between the solat panels and the batteries etc etc

    have a think about the block diag. post it up here and we can then help you through the stages :)
    once the major issues are defined, then we can look at the linking/switching between the different charging systems and the batteries etc

    Dave
     
  3. donkey

    donkey

    1,298
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    Feb 26, 2011
    thanks dave i have the diagram sorted its easy but the switching and charging is hard


    solar panel 24v --> transformer to seperate to 2*12v sources
    1st source to charge battery
    2nd source to power when battery is too low


    2nd hookup is mains 240v - 2* 12v for same reason above

    then i want to hook up a switch to alternate between solar/battery and mains
    http://img220.imageshack.us/f/design1h.jpg/
    in the link i provide switch 1 will select power to charge battery, solar when available

    and the transformer at the end will power all experiments and tools

    switch 2 will select source battery when charged is primary, solar is secondary and mains teritiary.

    with luck these will be automatic
    when i talk about mains in this project i am talking about a transormer 240v -12v but as it runs on 240v i labelled it mains
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2011
  4. donkey

    donkey

    1,298
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    Feb 26, 2011
    i am hoping to design a workbench this can fit into to run experiments as well as my 12volt tools, (soldering iron, rotary tool, and a few others which are 12volt) the reason i use a stepper is i will also be using this to run simple projects from jaycar/dicksmith etc hopefully. and these are 1.5 to 12volt usually. i hope it to be an all in one unit so it becomes more compact without having to search for items. i was thinking of putting an extension onto this as well to charge 1.5volt batteries (AA, AAA, C, D) and also 9volts but if i can get this part working first then i will be estatic.
     
  5. Resqueline

    Resqueline

    2,848
    2
    Jul 31, 2009
    It seems to me to be a too complex setup for the need.
    It's common for solar panel regulators to have multiple inputs; why not use them for "automatic" switching? It's just a matter of using diodes anyway.
    It's not good to source the power for the projects straight from the solar panel anyway. Check out the (revised) attachment and see if it'll do what you need.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. donkey

    donkey

    1,298
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    Feb 26, 2011
    that does look better. much neater too lol.
    now i gotta figure out what amps i need to run a light at all times when i am at the desk. also will be using 12volt rotary tool and soldering iron but i thought it out i will be using them OR the experiments so shouldn't be too hard
     
  7. Resqueline

    Resqueline

    2,848
    2
    Jul 31, 2009
    The battery will be able to supply everything operating at once even if this far exceeds the recharger units ampere-rating.
    You just need to estimate the total Ah drain by all appliances during 24 hours and use a battery at least twice as big, preferably three times (for longevity).
    The rechargers just needs to be rated 40% higher than the total Ah drain divided by 24h.
     
  8. donkey

    donkey

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    Feb 26, 2011
    awesome this is my first post and the info is very precise. YOU GUYS ROCK.
    i was expecting things like"dude look up wiki" lol
    if I run 2 deep cycle batteries when i get a charger will i treat it as a a single battery for chargin purposes or do i have to charge each individually? they will be 2 deep cycle batteries 12volt run in series. it will cost a heap but thinking this will last way longer than i need them to so will not have to worry about them draining. I read in a jaycar mag that if they get too low for any period they can get damaged so hoping this will also help eliminate that problem.
     
  9. davenn

    davenn Moderator

    13,866
    1,958
    Sep 5, 2009
    well we some times do that when its obvious that the poster has made no effort to at least do some investigations before asking questions ;)

    You saying Jaycar means you must be in Australia, maybe New Zealand, I think they are over there now too.
    I'm also looking at doing a serious battery backup system at home here in Sydney.
    A mate just got me 3 x 12V 100A/H (used) batteries that still have plenty of life in them.
    I have also been looking through the Jaycar and Altronics catalogs to determine charging systems. I cant afford the solar panels that would be needed to charge those batteries, the panels would be in the order of $1000 each :(
    So I'm more looking at charging from the mains and will most likely run the gear off the batteries contineously, so that when the mains supply drops out there s no switchover pause between switching from a mains supply to a battery supply system.
    I would run my amateur radio gear direct from the batteries. The 240V gear (computers etc) would be run from the batteries via an inverter, ~ 600-800W contineous rating 1000W peak (burst).

    DONT let the batteries drop below 10V. Any deep cycle sealed lead acid battery will need to be constant voltage charged at 13 - 14 Volts.
    Putting your batteries in series means you will need a 24V charger.

    cheers
    Dave
     
  10. donkey

    donkey

    1,298
    56
    Feb 26, 2011
    ok awesome just a few things. is that 1000 for the complete solar panel setup or 1k per bettery charging solar? and as you have 3 that would be 3000. both expensive however i could justify 1k not 3k lol.
    and yes australia brisbane to be precise however I have heard that jaycar has an international site for america.
    also altronics I have not heard of but will start looking at them
    also i messed up... this is for a 12volt system i meant parrllel not series. I am assuming to do this will up my amps thus making the charger needed still 12volt but higher amp.
    I am sorry there will be times I mess up like that.
     
    Last edited: Feb 27, 2011
  11. davenn

    davenn Moderator

    13,866
    1,958
    Sep 5, 2009
    yeah, thats per panel which would all feed into a single regulator/charger
    The prob is you have to decide on what the total Amp/Hr capability of your battery system is and be able to provide the very sizeable current that will be required to charge the battery bank

    Altronics have a Brissy office, do a google search dont know if Im allowed to put their 1300 phone number on the forum, dunno if it breaks the rules
    They have been around for many years, very similar to Jaycar but often easier to deal with, the company I work for buys 100's of thousands of $$ from them each yr

    Thats ok, I suspected that but let you clarify :)

    Dave
     
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