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A Sony' CRTs color is screwed up.

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by micky, Jun 1, 2013.

  1. micky

    micky Guest

    Don't know yet. No time or space to take it apart. Have to make
    room.
    No, I made a special effort to listen. Turned it on several times.
    I hear a relay click, but the sound is almost the same turning it off
    and turning it on.

    But I don't think this tv ever went BONG, like one other did.
    That's added incentive to turn it around and take the back off.
    Thanks.
     
  2. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "micky"
    "Phil Allison"

    ** Be very careful poking about on the PCB !!!!!

    Some Sony Trinitron portable sets were "live chassis" jobs.

    Almost all the circuitry is at main voltage - so you need an isolation
    tranny to work on them.


    ..... Phil
     
  3. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Arfa Daily"

    ** I am still using a CRT monitor for my PC.

    When I hold a speaker magnet about 6 inches away, white areas of the screen
    become mottled with grey shadows.

    However, the coloured parts change colour, blue to red, red to green etc.

    QED.


    ..... Phil
     
  4. Guest

    "Many moons ago, I came up with a simple demonstration that showed clearly
    how a number of different make and model stereo power amplifiers sounded
    exactly the same. This was to clear up the notion strongly held by their
    various owners that each possessed its own, distinctive "sound".
    "

    Perhaps, but Bob Carver proved the opposite.
     
  5. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest


    ** No he did not and neither has anyone else.

    I have read about his "mimicking" of a few high end US amplifiers by
    monkeying about with output impedances and bandwidths.

    There is no similarity with my test.

    All the amps used had very low output impedance and flat response
    (+/-0.5dB ) to 25kHz - same as 98% of all hi-fi power amps.



    .... Phil
     
  6. "Phil Allison" wrote in message "William Sommerwerck"
    Now I /am/ laughing. (Really.) Problem is, he means it.
     
  7. Many moons ago, I came up with a simple demonstration
    "Sounded exactly the same" is not the same as "were indistinguishable under
    the test conditions".

    With respect to context, you stated that the purpose of the test was to
    convince audiophiles that their belief that every amplifier had a distinct
    sonic signature was invalid.
     
  8. wrote in message
    I don't know whether he "proved" it, but he claimed that the principal sonic
    difference among amplifiers was variation in frequency response into a
    reactive load. By fiddling with the amplifier's response, he could reduce or
    eliminate the audible differences.

    Larry Archibald rented a motel room for Bob, and challenged him to make one of
    his solid-state amplifiers sound like an Audio Research tube amp. I don't
    remember the results.
     
  9. "Smarty" wrote in message
    I will accept this in the spirit in which it seems to be offered.

    But... I expect you to make an effort to understand the need to respect other
    people's time, and think at length before subjecting them to a barrage of
    objections -- especially those that fall into the "I don't believe what you're
    saying because it doesn't fit my preconceptions" category.

    YES, I have been where you are. More than 40 years ago, my network analysis
    teacher -- who was the finest instructor in anything I've ever had -- jumped
    down my throat for asking what he considered a stupid and lazy question. That
    exchange continuous to influence -- some might say poison -- the way I
    interact with people in UseNet.
     
  10. Some Sony Trinitron portable sets were "live chassis" jobs.
    And not just portables. I once damaged a KV-1920 because I "assumed" a set
    with a switch-mode supply necessarily had an isolated chassis.
     
  11. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    My recollection is that Carver nulled the difference signal between some highly regarded amps and his own prototype, doing so in order to "voice" his to imitate theirs. By using (again as I recall) passive reactances, he was able to get the two transfer functions so similar that their null was down many tens of dBs.

    The outcome of all of this was that no audibly discernible differences could be reliably reported, at least according to Carver in his claims.

    This method obviously did not account for the different dynamic characteristics of the two amps, such as output transformer saturations and harmonic spectra / distortion changes over the dynamic range of the amps.

    A clever technique technically and brilliant marketing IMHO.
     
  12. Smarty

    Smarty Guest



    William, the olive branch and apology was offered to you sincerely and
    unconditionally. I directly assumed and conveyed my responsibility for
    at least half of the argumentation.

    You have offered neither an apology nor any acknowledgement of your own
    contribution in this regard, but instead immediately reply with your
    "expectations" for what I "need to understand".

    May I then say to you a big **** YOU !!!!
     
  13. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    In retrospect, so very obviously true in this case, and my mistake for
    acting as a gentleman and following my natural instincts to be
    respectful of others.

    I have wasted too much time already with his nonsense.
     
  14. "Smarty" wrote in message
    I need to apologize for speaking the truth? For calling you on the line for
    your rudeness and intellectual laziness?

    You insult people, then respond with a "Who, me?" and a cutesy "apology". Who
    do you think you are? There's no more courtesy or respect in you than water in
    a desert.

    Shall I quote Whitman?

    "Have you learned the lessons only of those who admired you, and were tender
    with you, and stood aside for you? Have you not learned great lessons from
    those who braced themselves against you, and disputed passage with you?"

    You just don't get it, do you?
     
  15. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Smarty"

    ** Bob Carver only ever made transistor amps - notably under the Phase
    Linear and Carver brands. It is generally only tube amps that have such high
    output impedances that speaker loading affects the response audibly.

    Where an audible difference REALLY exists, there will be an easily measured
    difference too. This what Bob found and figured he could emulate with a few
    passives added to one of his designs.

    It is not necessary to match amps so precisely to make them sound
    indistinguishable in normal listening circumstances.


    ..... Phil
     
  16. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Jeff Liebermann"
    "Phil Allison"

    ** Huh ???

    Does my schem show input switching ?

    And what about this bit ?

    " Make "Y" leads to connect the left and right input signals to both
    amplifiers."

    Switching amp inputs was un-necessary and would create some audible
    transients, but simply using a change-over relay to select between two
    amplifiers that are producing virtually identical output signals results in
    no audible transients on music or speech.

    Another possibility when setting up is to connect the speakers across the
    hot outputs of each amp - then adjust input levels to get the least sound.
    With identical amplifiers, this should result in silence from both
    peakers - which only proves the signal gains are equal as neither amp is
    driving any load.



    .... Phil
     
  17. Smarty

    Smarty Guest

    Carver actually did also make tube amplifiers, and one of such series is
    described here in the link below. Other tube designs by Carver were also
    developed and sold.

    http://www.carveraudio.com/index.ph...com_virtuemart&Itemid=104&vmcchk=1&Itemid=104


    With regard to your comment comparing Carver amps versus tube amps and
    their output transformers, I didn't particularly assume Carver's design
    was solid state and the reference was not, since I have no reason to
    believe this was actually his situation. The comment I previously made
    was that Carver's prototype could never ***exactly**** match the
    reference amp he was attempting to imitate due to differences between
    the two which would not be amenable to simple transfer function /
    frequency response / phase response alone. I mentioned examples of
    obvious areas where such differences would still show up.

    Bob's prototype in this case very well may have been solid state, and
    then, to an even greater extent would fail to imitate the reference tube
    amplifier, if in fact the reference amplifier was a tube design, in the
    specific area of output transformer performance, for the obvious lack of
    an output transformer in Bob's amp. Even if Bob was comparing his tube
    design to a reference tube design, the nulling method he used would not
    show their differences in dynamic performance necessarily either. His
    "voicing" strategy also failed to look at intermod, and the more
    complete time bandwidth differences which would have been difficult or
    impossible for him to really measure years ago for nulling purposes, in
    particular FIR, for which no low cost deconvolvers were out there yet. I
    believe he used swept sines or possible some more harmonic-rich test
    signals, but he was unlikely to have been able to do true and holistic
    comparisons with finite impulses and other comprehensive methods now
    considered much more common place.

    * * Where an audible difference REALLY exists, there will be an easily
    measured difference too. This what Bob found and figured he could
    emulate with a few passives added to one of his designs. It is not
    necessary to match amps so precisely to make them sound
    indistinguishable in normal listening circumstances.


    I agree strongly. The human hearing system is a relatively inaccurate
    tool for hearing fine details which show up glaringly in some very
    simple tests and measurements.
     
  18. Phil Allison

    Phil Allison Guest

    "Smarty"

    ** How many Silver 7s did he sell?

    Was it 2 or was it 3 ??

    The site covers the Silver 7t & 9t, which are a transistor amps.

    The only Carver amps ever sold or advertised in Australia were transistor
    models - but I see on the net he has just released some new models that
    use tubes.

    ** Hypothetically only, no way are they likely to be audible.

    Bobs emulations were in terms of frequency response and output impedance -
    which at least can lead to audible differences.

    Bob Carver was and is a colossal bullshitter.

    Take his " Magnetic Field " amp nonsense for example - purest marketing
    hype and very misleading.



    .... Phil
     
  19. micky

    micky Guest

    Thanks for the warning.
    Thanks. I started doing that.
     
  20. Guest

    " just remove it from the
    board, and shake it. Usually, a faulty one will rattle. "

    I would fire you. All that shit to determine if something is fucking magnetized at $30 an hour. YOU ARE FIRED if you resort to that shit.

    Perhaps youse don't really know what professional standards are around here, but the last half dozen people I have worked for would never hire any of you.

    I am not trying to insult you, but if stupid shit like this befuddles you, forget it.
     
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