A microcontroller with a chip programmer ?

[Nanar Duff]

Hello,

I'm searching a "powerful" microcontroller (my goal is to decode Ogg
Vorbis in real Time so, I think, at least a µcontroller with ~100 MIPS,
32 bit) with a chip programmer (< $150). All the microcontroller that i
have already found have very expansive "Starter Kit" (or stuff like
this), any have ONLY a programmer, except one:
http://www.raisonance.com/products/RLINK.php (99€, ~$115) for the STR9 &
7 from ST microelectronics (respectively issued from ARM9 & 7).

So I would know if some people know others programmer board for any
microcontroller (able to decode Ogg Vorbis in real time) (I'm open to
the DSP too, but I think that it will be easier to use a microcontroller
) ?


Thanks.

 

[Eeyore]

Hello,

I'm searching a "powerful" microcontroller (my goal is to decode Ogg
Vorbis in real Time so, I think, at least a µcontroller with ~100 MIPS,
32 bit) with a chip programmer (< $150). All the microcontroller that i
have already found have very expansive "Starter Kit" (or stuff like
this), any have ONLY a programmer, except one:
http://www.raisonance.com/products/RLINK.php (99€, ~$115) for the STR9 &
7 from ST microelectronics (respectively issued from ARM9 & 7).

So I would know if some people know others programmer board for any
microcontroller (able to decode Ogg Vorbis in real time) (I'm open to
the DSP too, but I think that it will be easier to use a microcontroller
) ?

You need a DSP chip.

Graham

 

[Nanar Duff]

You need a DSP chip.

Graham

Well its seems no: http://www.pinknoise.demon.co.uk/tremolo/index.html .


Right, a DSP should be better, but i think that i will have to use a
microcontroller: i can't spend $300 for a dsp "starter kit" for a
hobbyist project.

 

[Eeyore]

Well its seems no: http://www.pinknoise.demon.co.uk/tremolo/index.html .

Right, a DSP should be better, but i think that i will have to use a
microcontroller: i can't spend $300 for a dsp "starter kit" for a
hobbyist project.

Oh. A RISC device. Not what I had in mind when you said microcontroller. How big
are the registers btw ? Check out the $6 DSP chips anyway for good measure !
e.g. DSP56362 and family.
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=DSP56362&nodeId=0127956292

Maybe this too.... but it's only ~ 50MIPS
http://www.wavefrontsemi.com/index.php?id=11,13,0,0,1,0

Graham

 

[Nanar Duff]

Eeyore wrote :

Oh. A RISC device. Not what I had in mind when you said microcontroller. How big
are the registers btw ?

The register can be 16 bit size, but 32 bit size would be preferable.

Check out the $6 DSP chips anyway for good measure ! e.g. DSP56362 and family.
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=DSP56362&nodeId=0127956292

Ok, but the problem is not the price of the chip, its the price of the
programmer of the chip ! If i good understand in the link given, i cant
program the DSP with the wiggler, i must buy the "DSPAUDIOEVM" who cost
$250 !

Maybe this too.... but it's only ~ 50MIPS
http://www.wavefrontsemi.com/index.php?id=11,13,0,0,1,0

Its the same problem thats the past DSP ...

 

[Eeyore]

Eeyore wrote :
The register can be 16 bit size, but 32 bit size would be preferable.

16 bit registers are no good at all for decent quality audio.

Ok, but the problem is not the price of the chip, its the price of the
programmer of the chip !

Why ? I don't understand.

If i good understand in the link given, i cant
program the DSP with the wiggler, i must buy the "DSPAUDIOEVM" who cost
$250 !

Its the same problem thats the past DSP ...

I don't understand that comment. I had another of Wavefront's DSP chips and I used an 89S53
microcontroller to control it and download the DSP code into it.

Graham

 

[Hal Murray]

Ok, but the problem is not the price of the chip, its the price of the
programmer of the chip ! If i good understand in the link given, i cant
program the DSP with the wiggler, i must buy the "DSPAUDIOEVM" who cost
$250 !

There are several companies making system-on-a-chips with ARM cores. I
like the ones from Atmel.

Some of them, come with a small ROM that can download code over the
RS-232 port. You get to that ROM code by resetting while holding
a pin high/low. In the other state it starts running your code
out of the on-chip Flash.

The GNU tool chain works well with ARM. If you are willing to debug
with printf and/or a scope, you don't need any fancy JTAG gear.

Digikey has an Atmel board for $149 with a SAM7256 on it. It may
not be fast enough.

Places you might check out:
http://www.balloonboard.org/index.html
http://gumstix.com/
http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php#

 

[Hal Murray]

Digikey has an Atmel board for $149 with a SAM7256 on it. It may
not be fast enough.

Argh. SAM7256 will probably confuse people.

I was trying to say it's got the 256K flash version of the SAM7.

Here is the URL for that board:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=3567

 

[Tim Auton]

Eeyore wrote : [snip]

Check out the $6 DSP chips anyway for good measure ! e.g. DSP56362 and
family.
http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=DSP5636
2&nodeId=0127956292

Ok, but the problem is not the price of the chip, its the price of the
programmer of the chip !

Why ? I don't understand.

You don't understand what? That someone might not know what you know?
Wow.

I don't understand that comment. I had another of Wavefront's DSP chips
and I used an 89S53 microcontroller to control it and download the DSP
code into it.

Instead of getting confused because the OP is not another of your
personalities and therefore doesn't have direct access to your memories,
how about telling them about some handy resources for inexpensive
programming of DSPs?


Tim

 

[Eeyore]

Instead of getting confused because the OP is not another of your
personalities

Sorry Tim, I managed successfully to decrypt Boki's intruiging comminications
but " Its the same problem thats the past DSP ... " is incomprehensible to me
!

We all have our flaws FFS ! I'm only humannn despite appearances..... I'm not a
damn Borg you know !

Graham

 

[Nanar Duff]

Eeyore a écrit :

16 bit registers are no good at all for decent quality audio.

Ok. So I'll take only µc with 32 bit registers.

Why ? I don't understand.

Well: after compiling and linking the program, how i can download
(execute) the program in the dsp ? (Thats what I call a "programmer"). I
don't find schematics or low cost boards that can do that.
Sorry for my bad English. I should say: "It is the same problem as the
precedent dsp." (well, i don't know if this sentence is correct english
too..)

I don't understand that comment. I had another of Wavefront's DSP chips and I used an 89S53
microcontroller to control it and download the DSP code into it.

Yoohoo, I'm searching some stuff like that. Well could you give the
schematic please ?

 

[Nanar Duff]

Hal Murray a écrit :

There are several companies making system-on-a-chips with ARM cores. I
like the ones from Atmel.

Some of them, come with a small ROM that can download code over the
RS-232 port. You get to that ROM code by resetting while holding
a pin high/low. In the other state it starts running your code
out of the on-chip Flash.

The GNU tool chain works well with ARM. If you are willing to debug
with printf and/or a scope, you don't need any fancy JTAG gear.

Digikey has an Atmel board for $149 with a SAM7256 on it. It may
not be fast enough.

Well, it seems that the SAM7 will be really not fast enough:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AT91SAM/message/1285 . And another
problem: it seems that in order to program those µcontroller, i need a
board (see the end of the message) or a "Sam-ICE/JLink Jtag interface"
(who cost 250€...).
I'm not sure of that, so could you confirm me this please ?

Places you might check out:
http://www.balloonboard.org/index.html
http://gumstix.com/

If i good understand, the Balloon Project its an "open source" board
based on a StrongARM processor. I REALLY would prefer to have a
µcontroller than a µprocessor: i don't think that i have a sufficient
level in electronics to understand the schematic, and then remove the
stuff that i don't need... I tried to find some "easy" tutorial
(explicit comment or stuff like this) for the balloon project without
success... Maybe do you have some link please ?

And for the gumstix board, its like the balloon board, i don't need of
all the extra stuff present on each board...

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php#

ERF, the programmers present on this website are perfect, the
µcontroller are less: any are not enough powerful to decode Ogg Vorbis
in real time...

NEXT MESSAGE:
Argh. SAM7256 will probably confuse people.

I was trying to say it's got the 256K flash version of the SAM7.

Here is the URL for that board:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=3567

Erf, the board cost $350:
http://www1.allamerican.com/direct/...&T_MFGCOD=ATM+&T_PRDID=AT91SAM7S64-IAR+++++++
!

 

[Nanar Duff]

Hal Murray wrote :

There are several companies making system-on-a-chips with ARM cores. I
like the ones from Atmel.

Some of them, come with a small ROM that can download code over the
RS-232 port. You get to that ROM code by resetting while holding
a pin high/low. In the other state it starts running your code
out of the on-chip Flash.

The GNU tool chain works well with ARM. If you are willing to debug
with printf and/or a scope, you don't need any fancy JTAG gear.

Digikey has an Atmel board for $149 with a SAM7256 on it. It may
not be fast enough.

Well, it seems that the SAM7 will be really not fast enough:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AT91SAM/message/1285 . And another
problem: it seems that in order to program those µcontroller, i need a
board (see the end of the message) or a "Sam-ICE/JLink Jtag interface"
(who cost 250€...).
I'm not sure of that, so could you confirm me this please ?

Places you might check out:
http://www.balloonboard.org/index.html
http://gumstix.com/

If i good understand, the Balloon Project its an "open source" board
based on a StrongARM processor. I REALLY would prefer to have a
µcontroller than a µprocessor: i don't think that i have a sufficient
level in electronics to understand the schematic, and then remove the
stuff that i don't need... I tried to find some "easy" tutorial
(explicit comment or stuff like this) for the balloon project without
success... Maybe do you have some link please ?

And for the gumstix board, its like the balloon board, i don't need of
all the extra stuff present on each board...

http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php#

ERF, the programmers present on this website are perfect, the
µcontroller are less: any are not enough powerful to decode Ogg Vorbis
in real time...

NEXT MESSAGE:
Argh. SAM7256 will probably confuse people.

I was trying to say it's got the 256K flash version of the SAM7.

Here is the URL for that board:
http://www.atmel.com/dyn/products/tools_card.asp?tool_id=3567

Erf, the board cost $350:
http://www1.allamerican.com/direct/...&T_MFGCOD=ATM+&T_PRDID=AT91SAM7S64-IAR+++++++

!

 

[Eeyore]

Eeyore a écrit :

Ok. So I'll take only µc with 32 bit registers.

Much more suitable !

Well: after compiling and linking the program, how i can download
(execute) the program in the dsp ? (Thats what I call a "programmer"). I
don't find schematics or low cost boards that can do that.

All DSP chips have an interface to load code from a host contoller. You use a microcontoller as
the host and use that to download code into the DSP via serial or parallel interface.

This is exactly what I've done with the DSP code stored in onboard flash memory in the MCU along
with the MCU code.

You write your own downloader in whatever language you're using to program the MCU.

Sorry for my bad English. I should say: "It is the same problem as the
precedent dsp." (well, i don't know if this sentence is correct english
too..)

Yoohoo, I'm searching some stuff like that. Well could you give the
schematic please ?

That'll cost you ! However I do think their application notes give some good examples. Look for
the schematic of the EV board.

Graham