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A LENR Explanation

Discussion in 'Home Power and Microgeneration' started by amdx, Jun 11, 2012.

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  1. amdx

    amdx Guest

    I found this explanation of interest.

    There is a reference to resonance, I can't
    figure out if this is a naturally occurring resonance or
    external energy applied at a resonant frequency.
    I f anyone has a clue, please let me know.


    NAE= Nuclear Active Environment
  2. Tom P

    Tom P Guest

    If you read the Student's Guide on the website, you'll see what the
    problem is - any nuclear fusion reaction must produce radiation,
    neutrons or gamma rays. No such effect is observed - meaning there is no
    nuclear reaction.
  3. Han

    Han Guest

    If you think radiation might be generated, it probably is better to make
    up a radiation barrier of some kind. The best would be a small wall of
    lead bricks, but anything (nonradioactive) with a high mass to volume
    ratio would do. Then measure before you start up the reaction, from in
    fron and from behind the barrier. Note data, and start the reaction.
    With the reaction going, measure again same ways. Background radiation
    (beta) should be in the range of 30-40 cpm/dpm, at least that's what our
    scintillation counters showed. Geiger counters should click a few clicks
    per minute to some that are still clearly separate. When it starts
    rattling or buzzing, it's time to step back (exposure is inverse to the
    square of the distance).
  4. Jim Wilkins

    Jim Wilkins Guest

    You could insert shielding between the detector and the reactor to
    record the background.

  5. Jim Wilkins

    Jim Wilkins Guest

    Radnet should give you an idea of the background level and the amount
    of fluctuation to expect:
    They have a more thorough dataset collected after the Japanese nuclear
    Try Rubidium and Krypton. If you can quietly slip in an extra proton
    when they're not looking you'll have a valuable portable antimatter
    source for medical diagnostics.

  6. mike

    mike Guest

    When you "don't have much of a clue" and are trying
    to create unknown reactions that have potential to release substantial
    by the time you determine that you need to shut it down, you may already
    be dead from radiation or being pinned between flying lead bricks and
    the wall. And shutting it off may not stop it.

    Certainly, instrumentation is good.
    I'd invest in a video camera and a bunker some distance away.

    I wonder how many mad scientists have achieved success
    in the past, but never lived to tell about it.

    Then measure before you start up the reaction, from in
  7. mike

    mike Guest

    I'm not convinced that Rossi's stuff is any more than smoke and mirrors.
    You just couldn't keep something of this magnitude a secret for this long.
    I HOPE it works, cause it would be great for mankind.

    I have a rather simplistic view.
    I believe that chemical/nuclear/any reactions that can occur
    on earth are
    currently happening and have been discovered...
    they used to happen, but are used up.
    And by that, I mean that naturally occurring reagents in proximity
    to naturally occurring catalysts and naturally occurring energy
    sources have been consumed by natural forces over the last 14 billion years.

    In order to create the reaction manually, we have to isolate the required
    reagents, isolate the required catalysts, put them in proximity,
    apply sufficient energy to get the system over the energy barrier
    that's preventing spontaneous reactions and get out more energy than
    it took to do all this.

    I'm not saying it can't be done. Fusion reactors have been doing this
    for decades. Lightning is a very potent naturally occurring energy
    source that's been initiating reactions for billions of years.
    Doing it with the energy levels available in one's garage
    seems like a stretch.

    I watch too many science fiction movies. I fear the reaction we seek
    might be the same one that initiates a black hole or supernova or
    some other mass destruction. That's one
    experiment you don't want to work. ;-)
    Don't mess with mother nature.

    Publish as much detail as you can so we can see it happen here live...
  8. Tom P

    Tom P Guest

    Beta particles are just free electrons and wouldn't even get out of a
    paper bag.
    The beta particles that the geiger detector registers are side
    products from other ionizing radiation.
    The serious stuff you have to worry about from any true nuclear reaction
    are neutrons and gamma rays. Although the reactions listed at the LEWR
    site don't mention neutron emission, if any nuclear reactions are
    occurring at all then you have a very high risk of generating some
    neutrons as a result of the inevitable trace contamination of the
    materials with impurities. Don't forget that your radiation shield
    itself as well as your monitoring instruments could become radioactively
    contaminated if any neutrons react with the atoms inside of them. In
    other words if the experiment is a success then you have created a major
    health hazard for yourself.
  9. Han

    Han Guest

    I focused on beta radiation, because I had most experience with that.

    Apart from that, I used a regular lab "geiger counter" to measure the
    gamma radiation a family member emitted (therapy). I googled "radiation
    counter" and clicked images. My counter was similar to the 3rd from the
    left in the top row.

    To "kill" a hyperactive thyroid gland, a classical therapy is an
    injection of radioactive iodine (I-131, a high energy gamma and beta
    emitter with 8 day half life). Spouse is advised to sleep in another
    room for a day or so, children are advised to sleep elsewhere for a few
    days. I was curious as to the radiation, borrowed a geiger counter from
    work, and stood outside the house some 30 feet away. Counter still went
    haywire, through windows.

    Obviously, a few days of this radiation outweighs the risks of surgery,
    as iodine 131 is classical therapy for otherwise untreatable Graves'
  10. Han

    Han Guest

    "Counts" have a statistical fluctuation. If you have a level of counts 10-
    fold over average background (averaged over a few seconds, up to a minute),
    it is really a very minimal amount. To exclude false positive shutdowns,
    I'd start with at least 100-fold over background, averaged over a minute.
  11. Han

    Han Guest

    I really do understand the better safe than sorry philosophy. OTOH, many
    people live in (relatively) high radiation environments (subways, high
    altitudes, frequent air plane flights). Therefore the background
    radiation level in your neck of the woods is probably really low.
  12. Jim Wilkins

    Jim Wilkins Guest

    It's had over a century to react with nickel powder inside closely
    monitored industrial apparatus.

  13. Jim Wilkins

    Jim Wilkins Guest

    Research chemists are thoroughly trained to notice and record
    EVERYTHING, and to expect the unexpected, which if they are lucky will
    make them famous.

    The professors made the point that as one ages the inclination (and
    energy) to explore odd things you might have noticed fades, until you
    become unlikely to make unexpected discoveries unless you make a
    conscious effort to pursue anomalies.

  14. Jim Wilkins

    Jim Wilkins Guest

    I was sucked into the Army before I could go on to grad school, so I
    know of only academic research in Chemistry. I received NSF research
    grants and worked in the lab all summer after my freshman, sophomore
    and junior years. Then they ended grad school deferments and I spent
    the senior year summer in the theatre program, learning to boss an
    unwilling set-building crew.

    In academic research at least the professors saved up strange findings
    for future grad student research projects.

    Later I ran R&D labs at MITRE and saw the tighter, more disciplined
    focus you described. However some people pursued promising ideas on
    their own until they could raise support.

  15. mike

    mike Guest

    On 6/22/2012 11:46 AM, Morris Dovey wrote:
    And the bar for "average" is set VERY low.

    I show people the bell-shaped curve and ask,
    "from which part of the curve would you select your
    brain surgeon?" Nobody ever picks the middle.
  16. Tom P

    Tom P Guest

    I-131 decays to Xenon first by emitting a beta particle (ie an electron)
    leaving the electron shell of the Xenon atom in an exited state which
    decays by emission of gamma rays.
    What you are detecting at a distance of 30 feet is the gamma ray radiation.

    Inside the body the beta particles never get further than a few
    millimeters before they interact with body tissue. That is why I-131 is
    used for thyroid radiotherapy.
  17. Han

    Han Guest

    Thanks. I got as far as realizing that there was beta and gamma ray
    emission involved, and that I was reading gammas. But the scheme makes
    things much more clear to me.

    My daughter's case went well. It took a while to get the synthetic
    thyroid hormone calibrated to the right level, but now she is on yearly
    checkups only.
  18. Jim Wilkins

    Jim Wilkins Guest

    Good, glad you found someone close enough to discuss and sketch the
    design. In my experience electrical engineers can turn a $30 machining
    job into a $3000 one far too easily.

  19. Jim Wilkins

    Jim Wilkins Guest

    I doubt I could have bored the inside and especially radiused the
    blind end smoothly enough to eliminate stress risers. Antique
    leather-belt-driven lathes like mine don't handle carbide inserts very

  20. Han

    Han Guest

    I'm still following your progress with baited breath. Pushing tongue
    back in ...
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