Maker Pro
Maker Pro

98SE, older PC, wow

J

JURB6006

Jan 1, 1970
0
Hi;

Today my sound just came through with something that sounded like random data
spikes or something. The PC had been running all night, but there were no
problems last night. Actually the noise was there before I tried to play
something.

So I shut down, trying to reboot. It did not shut down. Noise continued. I
turned it off and pulled the soundcard, no good, it would still not even
initialize the video (which is PCI). Puled the HD, no good but finally I booted
it without the vidcard. I got beeps, I didn't have beeps before. I was starting
to think it was one of the power supplies. I put the vidcard back and it looked
like it was going to work, so I tried the soundcard again. This time it's
booting but the noise is still there. Then I figure it's time to either leave
the soundcard out or change it. Go to the junkpile and find one I'm sure 98SE
has drivers for and stick it in.

Now it's giving me the bad battery error, even though I changed it . . . . . .
.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... . with a used one.

Hmmmm

Opinions ?

Thanks in advance, and the guy that wants to buy this mmmm, it's a real finicky
board.

At this point I'm just glad to be online, and I am looking for something in the
way of a P3, Athlon or even a real high P2. Then I can just drop my HD in, get
a few drivers and have a relatively painless upgrade. Got one for $50 or
something ?

Actually I kinda wish software didn't interact so much with hardware.

JURB
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
finally I booted
it without the vidcard. I got beeps, I didn't have beeps before

The beeping would be the BIOS indicating that it has no graphics device
installed.
Go to the junkpile and find one I'm sure 98SE
has drivers for and stick it in.

Now it's giving me the bad battery error, even though I changed it . . . . .
.
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ... . with a used one.

Maybe you should get a new battery.

Did you bother to test the used battery before installing it?

Also, after installing the new battery, is there a CMOS CLEAR jumper on the
mainboard? If so, you're supposed to close the jumper for CMOS CLEAR after
installing the battery to clean out the CMOS of any corruption for about a
minute. Then you open the jumper connection, reboot the computer, and then go
into the BIOS menu to configure your adjustments and set your clock.
Thanks in advance, and the guy that wants to buy this mmmm, it's a real
finicky
board.

Let me guess. It's a VIA chipset.
At this point I'm just glad to be online, and I am looking for something in
the
way of a P3, Athlon or even a real high P2. Then I can just drop my HD in,
get
a few drivers and have a relatively painless upgrade.

Not so fast.

Your OS on that hard drive was specifically configured for the hardware
configuration of the computer that it was originally installed on, including
the original mobo that was running as the arteries of your old system.

You can't simply swap the drive and its OS installation to another computer and
expect it to work like new. You will have some serious complications which
will result in headaches and even the BSoD.

The recommended procedure is to back up all of your important and irreplaceable
data, wipe the hard drive completely clean (preferrably by deleting the
partition, repartitioning the drive, and then doing a full-format on it), and
install an operating system appropriate for your new system.

If your system is expected to have at or over 512 MB of RAM and run at or over
1 GHz, then it's recommended that you install WindowsXP Professional with
service pack 2 and all security updates applied to it. A really fast computer
will not run very stable with Win98SE. WinXP Home Edition is far too limited
to be useful, IMO.
Actually I kinda wish software didn't interact so much with hardware.

Without software, the hardware won't run. Plus, software or firmware drivers
are the only way your computer can communicate with any extra pieces of
hardware connected to it. Without the drivers, your hardware may as well act
like a human body without a brain stem. :p

However, you have to be very selective with what programs you run on your
computer. There are a lot of software programs out there for Windows which are
sloppily written and will cause problems, some very serious, to your OS
installation. You also have to be dilligent and perform periodic housekeeping
on your machine either weekly or every two weeks.

Every week, I upgrade Norton Anti-Virus, Norton Internet Protection, Lavasoft
Ad-Aware, and the WinXP Pro OS installation. Then I do a complete virus scan,
spyware scan, scandisk, and defrag.

Because of this, my computer is running as fast as it did the day I completed
building it and installing the OS about one year ago. I do get the occasional
hiccup, but it just wouldn't be a Windows machine if it didn't do that every
once in a while. If I were after true reliability with muscle, I'd get a Power
Macintosh, either a G4 or (better yet) a G5 with the latest installation of
MacOS X.

Anyways, I also did other upgrades to my machine, like making sure my drivers
are up to date and that my ASPI layer is current so as to allow reliable
operation of my CD-RW and DVD-ROM drives. I also used various special
utilities from a fantastic independent Windows resource website:
www.annoyances.org

They have fantastic resources for fixing and configuring Windows, especially
XP, to help make it run the way you want it to. - Reinhart
 
H

harrogate2

Jan 1, 1970
0
Not so fast.

Your OS on that hard drive was specifically configured for the hardware
configuration of the computer that it was originally installed on, including
the original mobo that was running as the arteries of your old system.

You can't simply swap the drive and its OS installation to another computer and
expect it to work like new. You will have some serious complications which
will result in headaches and even the BSoD.

The recommended procedure is to back up all of your important and irreplaceable
data, wipe the hard drive completely clean (preferrably by deleting the
partition, repartitioning the drive, and then doing a full-format on it), and
install an operating system appropriate for your new system.
[snip]

Rubbish. You, my friend, are too indoctrinated into XP - which will
NOT run if you swap motherboards.

You can swap a drive with 98SE into any machine and it will run. There
might be some minor issues at the start if you have any
motherboard-specific drivers loaded but these will show themselves
quickly enough and can be sorted. IME 98SE is perfectly stable - it
certainly was for me with a 1G8 Celeron. Just make sure you have the
original disc to hand.

However if you are going to upgrade it does make sense to switch to XP
Pro as it is definitely more stable, and if you do you will be unable
to access your existing hard drive even as a slave (XP protection
again) so data backup is vital. If your drive is partitioned don't be
tempted to put everything on an extended partition and just wipe the C
drive - the same protection will activate - from one who knows!
 
J

JURB6006

Jan 1, 1970
0
The beeping would be the BIOS indicating that it has no graphics device
installed.

I'm aware of that. I'm also aware that when a PC doesn't boot or beep at all
you start removing things.

This PC is hooked up to a stereo system and when the volume is high you can
hear transients during intensive HD activity. This leads me to believe the
filters are going and that could be causing corruption of the ESCD.
Maybe you should get a new battery.

Did you bother to test the used battery before installing it?

Possible, I didn't check the replacement but it came from a much newer
PC,................................. now I've tested the old battery and it
reads over 2.8 volts. Problem is I'm on the PC right now and would have to
shutdown to check the new one (or would I ?)....................

OK now I just tested it while running and this might be revealing. The - side
reads about -.72 and the + side only reads 1.2. Obviously the "new" battery is
worse than the old one. I used the case as a ground and I can't believe there's
that much ground current to cause such a drop. Seven tenths of a volt seems
quite high to me.
Also, after installing the new battery, is there a CMOS CLEAR jumper on the
mainboard? If so, you're supposed to close the jumper for CMOS CLEAR after
installing the battery

IIRC what that jumper actually does is to disconnect the battery. No reason not
to give it a try though, I'll do that later. (after finding a good battery of
course)
Let me guess. It's a VIA chipset.

Actually it's Intel 430 (don't laugh now)
Not so fast.

Your OS on that hard drive was specifically configured for the hardware
configuration of the computer that it was originally installed on, including
the original mobo that was running as the arteries of your old system.

I know how to migrate the 98SE OS. You get it into safe mode and remove all the
mobo drivers and anything else you can find. Get ready for a long rebooting
process and have the 98 CD ready (I have mine copied to the HD) Also be
prepared to DL drivers for the mobo, and THEN get Windowsupdate of course.
will result in headaches and even the BSoD.

Not if you remove all the old drivers. You got to get them all though.
wipe the hard drive completely clean

I have an extensively modified OS on here, along with probably $10,000 worth of
data, a whole lot of CODECs, Mediaplayer 9. I have manually tweaked my Sendto
menu so for example I can force a song to play on Mediaplayer 7, why ?, because
it opens like lightning and it allows multiple instances. I can actually play
two MP3s or videos at the same time. Actually more than that, to the limit of
what I can fit on the screen. When you DL music and videos, it's nice to
compare them and only keep the best quality file.
A really fast computer
will not run very stable with Win98SE.

My buddy has 98SE on a P3/933 and it runs great. I think I did hear that 98SE
doesn't use above 256MB of RAM though, but I simply don't need more.
Without software, the hardware won't run.

I know, but I wish it wasn't so easy for the firmware, or semi-firmware like
BIOS/CMOS to get screwed up.
However, you have to be very selective with what programs you run on your
computer.

I am. Actually about ½ of the stuff I run was portable, that is copied from a
harddrive's program files. Only older versions of certain things will do this,
but after a reboot windows gives any valid yet unclaimed file extesions to
those programs. If installed properly the .reg file on the CD would do it, but
I didn't want that. For example art and jpg files are still associated with IE.
My modified Sento menu allows me to easily open a file in Paint Shop Pro or
Adobe Photoshop right from explorer or a find window. I rarely have to use
File>Open in programs. I like the explorer interface better and even from the
documents menu I can do a sendto. Also I have an alpabetically arrainged music
directory for which I have installed a toolbar. Right click works just as well
from there also.
Windows resource website:
www.annoyances.org

I'll check that out.

Actually one nice thing is that 98 will migrate, although it's a slight PITA.
XP abolutely won't do it, unless you know something I don't (quite possible :)
)

Thanks again for your time and assistance.

JURB
 
J

JURB6006

Jan 1, 1970
0
too indoctrinated into XP - which will
NOT run if you swap motherboards.

I know. It sits there and keeps rebooting forever. Even with the same model
mobo, the machine ID might throw it off.
You can swap a drive with 98SE into any machine and it will run.

Yes but read my other response. You need to remove all references to the old
devices in device mgr, from sale mode (BTW what is the other mode called,
unsafe ?) I do this when I change anything except the video card. It seems to
sort those out pretty well. Actually the vidcard I was running was one this
mobo didn't like. It wouldn't shutdown right, but then it decided it was OK
after I changed the soundcard. This thing must have been built on Halloween.
I've ran a bunch of different vidcards on this and the drivers just adjust
themselves.
Just make sure you have the
original disc to hand.

It's right on the HD :).

Again thanks for your time and assistance.

JURB
 
L

LASERandDVDfan

Jan 1, 1970
0
This PC is hooked up to a stereo system and when the volume is high you can
hear transients during intensive HD activity. This leads me to believe the
filters are going and that could be causing corruption of the ESCD

Not usually. Sometimes the noise is coming from the analogue audio feed from
the CD-ROM to the sound card.

Solution: mute the "CD Audio" setting on the Volume Control window for the
sound card.

Other times, it's noise that you are going to pick up due to the fact that the
everyday PC can produce a lot of EM noise, with some of that noise actually
able to bleed through into the audio feed to your receiver.

Computers can cause some real noisy EM interference.
Possible, I didn't check the replacement but it came from a much newer
PC

Doesn't matter. If the BIOS still gives an indication of a dead battery,
replace it with a different one. A litihum cell isn't that expensive.
now I've tested the old battery and it
reads over 2.8 volts. Problem is I'm on the PC right now and would have to
shutdown to check the new one (or would I ?)....................

The old battery is probably still all right.

..2 volts under 3.0 isn't enough to cause problems with the CMOS.
IIRC what that jumper actually does is to disconnect the battery. No reason
not
to give it a try though, I'll do that later. (after finding a good battery of
course)

Acutally, the jumper can do two things.

1. It does disconnect the battery from supplying power to the CMOS.

2. It can also help to dissipate any residual charge in the CMOS power supply
circuit, helping to ensure that the CMOS will be completely wiped. Usually,
you have to remove the battery and jump the jumper point for 30 seconds.
Sometimes, you may even have to leave it for up to 10 minutes.

Of course, don't forget to undo the jumper before you install the new battery
and turn on the computer.

Anyways, when you replace the battery, it is highly advised that you do a hard
reset of the CMOS, which is what the jumper is there for.
Actually it's Intel 430 (don't laugh now)

Nah. I was running a K6-3 450 with a Via chipset as my internet machine for
the most part until recently when the mobo went out completely. It won't POST
and it won't beep, even after wiping the CMOS totally clean and changing video
cards. It just sits there.

Since I had already built up an XP machine with a Athlon 2600+ XP processor on
an nVidia chipset mobo, I just took the hard disk out of my old computer,
transferred all of my important files to my new computer's HD, then wiped the
old HD clean and reformatted it from FAT32 to NTFS. Can't let a good 40 gig
drive go to waste, so it's slaved to my 80 gig in my current computer.

Wish everything was SATA, though. But, my mobo doesn't have that, nor does it
have dual channel DDR.

Just UDMA and single channel DDR. But, it's more than adequate for my needs.

I looking forward to upgrading my CPU to an Athlon 3200+ XP Barton. Prices for
that CPU should be on the way down, considering that the Athlon64 is already
out there.
I know how to migrate the 98SE OS. You get it into safe mode and remove all
the
mobo drivers and anything else you can find. Get ready for a long rebooting
process and have the 98 CD ready

Well, okay. That works. The computer will reboot with the generic Microsoft
drivers for the motherboard, allowing you to install fresh drivers. But, I'd
still have concerns about the condition of the original registry. I'd rather
start off with a clean slate and a clean reinstall in this case, but that's me.
My buddy has 98SE on a P3/933 and it runs great. I think I did hear that 98SE
doesn't use above 256MB of RAM though, but I simply don't need more.

Try Win98SE and WinME on a 2 GHz+ machine and see what happens.

In my case, the installation was not very reliable. I almost always got BSoD.
I repeatedly reinstalled with a clean drive and the most up to date drivers
each time and the result was always the same. Ended up having to install XP
Pro in the end, and the computer runs much more reliably.

Win98SE and WinME were designed around the same time that computers were really
starting to approach the 1 GHz mark. But 2 GHz machines were never made around
that time, of course. Consequently, Windows98 and Windows Millenium were never
designed to run on computers with clock speeds in excess of 2 GHz, among other
things.

Sometimes, system power by itself can cause stability problems. There are
loads of vintage programs that will not run on modern computers properly.

For instance, I have a copy of "Space Quest 1" VGA edition for PC DOS. That
game, plus a lot of other Sierra games, will run properly on the kind of
machine it was designed for: a 25 MHz or faster 486 series.

On my old K6-3, the game would run, but the sound card would not initialize
(and yes, I was running an ISA Sound Blaster card with all drivers and
environment settings implemented and completely in DOS mode). Apparently, this
was also a problem with 486 computers with clock speeds in excess of 60 MHz,
which Sierra provided a fix for.

But, the problem still existed if you had a 486 DX4 with a clock of 100 MHz or
a Pentium 60, much less 450 MHz K6-3 and a 2 GHz Athlon 2600+ XP.

There is a way around the memory cap for Win98 and WinME, though.

http://aumha.org/win4/a/memmgmt.php
I know, but I wish it wasn't so easy for the firmware, or semi-firmware like
BIOS/CMOS to get screwed up.

Sometimes, it happens. Sometimes, it's not because of software but from a
power surge or something else that causes corruption of the data contents in
the CMOS. The only thing you can do in a situation like that is to do a hard
reset of the CMOS and reconfigure all of your BIOS settings. - Reinhart
 
F

Franc Zabkar

Jan 1, 1970
0
Acutally, the jumper can do two things.

1. It does disconnect the battery from supplying power to the CMOS.

2. It can also help to dissipate any residual charge in the CMOS power supply
circuit, helping to ensure that the CMOS will be completely wiped. Usually,
you have to remove the battery and jump the jumper point for 30 seconds.
Sometimes, you may even have to leave it for up to 10 minutes.

Some RTC chips (eg some older ones with on-chip battery) use the
jumper to control a "CMOS RAM clear" pin. For the CMOS RAM to be
cleared, the jumper has to be in the reset position while the
motherboard is powered on.


- Franc Zabkar
 
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