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74LS90, 74LS92 and other TTL are OBSOLETE???

Discussion in 'Electronic Components' started by pdmtr, Mar 13, 2006.

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  1. pdmtr

    pdmtr Guest

    Hi
    Doing a search for some TTL Logics as 74LS90, 74LS92 and others common
    use Logic ICs I have found that they are OBSOLETE??? !
    Basicaly I'm looking for any package of them DIP, SO and also I don't
    care much if it will LS, S, HC, HCT type!
    So is it real that the standard TTL Logic ICs are going to obsolete?
    Regards
    Sotiris
     
  2. David Harmon

    David Harmon Guest

    On 13 Mar 2006 09:35:21 -0800 in sci.electronics.components, "pdmtr"
    Sure they are. Any two or more such chips are replaced with a
    microprocessor. Maybe one of them.

    What logic is NOT obsolete, other than microprocessors, FPGAs,
    ASIC chipsets?
     
  3. pdmtr

    pdmtr Guest

    Yes of course it can be replaced by a uCU... or a CPLD, FPGA, ASICs,
    etc!
    The question is, WHY to replace a simple <10cents Ic with a >1$ (+ cost
    to make the code) one to do the job??? if you just need to do only the
    ting the TTL logic does?
    Do they going nut (IC makers) or ... ?
     
  4. Dave Platt

    Dave Platt Guest

    Doing a search for some TTL Logics as 74LS90, 74LS92 and others common
    NTE still carries replacements for the 74LS90 and 74LS92 as well as
    many other otherwise-obsolete parts. Their parts are a decent
    solution if you need to repair some older equipment, but are
    generally too expensive to consider using in new projects.

    These sorts of small logic and small-scale-integration chips are very
    much an endangered species, and are widely listed by those
    manufacturers who make them as "not intended for new design".

    The trends these days seem to be:

    - Low-voltage operation. 5-volt logic is passe.

    - Very-small-footprint packages.

    - Large, complex logical networks are generally implemented via
    microcontrollers, PLDs of one sort or another, ASICs, and FPGAs.
    Building complex logic out of simple DIP or large-surface-mount
    logic ICs is only rarely done these days.

    - A lot of single logic gate types are available in tiny little
    packages (5- or 6-pin SOT-like) and are intended for adding small
    amounts of logic "around the edges" of a more complex chipset.

    What it boils down to, I think, is that if you need to repair some
    older equipment or a project which used the old DIP/SO TTL parts, you
    can probably do so but may need to substitute, scrounge, etc.

    If you want to build something new, you'll probably be better off
    designing it to use modern parts and techniques. You might find that
    a simple PLD, or even a PIC microcontroller, could absorb the
    functions for which dozens of TTL-logic parts were originally used.
    You'll end up with a simpler, easier-to-build circuit.
     
  5. Dave Platt

    Dave Platt Guest

    No, they're not nuts.

    It's simply a matter of economics. Decades ago, most digital
    electronics were build around this sort of part - the manufacturing
    volumes were extremely high and they were churned out like jellybeans.

    These days, most consumer electronics devices no longer use such
    parts... because it's possible to make TVs, VCRs, computers, etc. with
    more modern parts that are smaller, faster, use less power, and are
    easier to handle on modern high-speed manufacturing lines.

    In short, the actual demand for small-scale-integration TTL parts in
    large packages has died. The total world demand for such parts is
    probably a small fraction of a percentage of what it was, decades ago.

    At this point, there's just no longer an incentive for manufacturers
    to keep making and stocking them. It's more trouble and money than
    it's worth to them. I'd guess that the cost of maintaining the older
    wafer-fabrication lines used for these old designs becomes prohibitive.

    For modern designs, nobody replaces a single $.10 IC with a $1 PIC or
    CPLD unless they absolutely have to.

    Instead, they design a single board which uses $5 worth of micros and
    ASICs and FPGAs, but which does the same job (or a better job) than a
    rack of large boards which used hundreds or thousands of $.10 ICs.

    The large-volume parts buyers no longer want 74LSxxx DIP parts.
     
  6. Guest

    Direct Components Inc. 4828 W. Gandy Blvd. Tampa, Fl 33611
    Phone: 1-888-723-7279 or 813-835-3883 Fax: 813-831-0295 Email:




    Has them in stock
     
  7. pdmtr

    pdmtr Guest

    Hi Dave
    That I'm saying is that you can keep the things simple enough and
    always use proven & reliable parts for something that it doesn't need
    all the "design power" a newer part provides, while that costs >10
    times the former solution!!! For instance, say you have a TCXO based
    clock of 12MHz and you just want to get three subclock of it, a 6MHz, a
    4MHz and also a 2.4MHz... A single 7490 will do the job on the fly for
    only 10cents maximum cost... and it could be also SO package SMT... not
    DIP! And I'm not saying on building something that will had a rack
    sized board full of TTL's on it...
    For that simple case I think the TTL logic solution is the best for
    value...
    I'm sure nobody (at least until today, as I start to think that I'll
    also see this in my life) replace a 2 transistor circuit with an ASIC
    for example ;)
    What is starting to worries me, is that we have lost the sense of "keep
    it simple enough but not simpler than it sould be" and we try to build
    everything based on the "but this goes up to eleven" way... (from a
    film...)

    However I'm understanding exactly what you're saying... :(
     
  8. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hello Sotiris,


    Ask TI, they show the LS90 as active. But prices are already above $1,
    not a good sign. There are other counters though.


    LS probably, HC won't go obsolete for a long time. In fact, I am still
    designing commercial products with CD4000 and 74HC series devices. They
    even migrated them to TSSOP which certainly would not have happened if
    obsolescence was on the horizon.

    There are applications where a simple logic chip beats out a uC big
    time. Always will be. Logic chips are alive and kicking but they are
    migrating to lower voltage families.

    Regards, Joerg
     
  9. David Harmon

    David Harmon Guest

    On 13 Mar 2006 11:08:29 -0800 in sci.electronics.components, "pdmtr"
    But you don't need just one TTL IC. What are you building?
    What are you building that doesn't need a few dozen TTL ICs = or one
    micro to do the same job?

    Of course there are plenty of 74LS still on shelves at
    www.jameco.com etc., but can you guess what your boss would say if
    you designed a few of them in to a product that was going to be made
    in 100k quantities? How big do you want your cell phone to be?
     
  10. pdmtr

    pdmtr Guest

    Well, the truth is that there is a need for ONLY 2 TTLs in the
    design!!! Those are just used to give 6 diferrent subclocks from a TCXO
    source. The design has also uCU, RF ASICs, and lot of other stuff like
    LCD, Keyboard, etc... It's sure not a "one chip" show :))
    As I see it got to use a CPLD for replacement of the 2 TTL... the
    cheaper I have found until now is ~1.70$ so that's far more than
    ~20cents!!! I'm sure not only mine but nobodies "boss" wouldn't like to
    spend 150K more than it could :)
    Of course a 2U 19" rack mounted isn't so portable as a cell phone, so
    why we have to shrink everything we are doing in life even if there is
    plenty of room to use?
    It's not look weird for you to open a 29" TV set and find out that all
    it is behind that large screen is a chip with say 3 drivers a HT T/R
    all in a board that could fit easy at 4.5" monitor? Yes, I know thats
    the way it goes... And it's sure more economical for a production line
    of >1M units / year to build your "all in one" ASIC! But at least we
    must admitte that is a bit weird :)) to shrink everything, even when
    there isn't a real need to do so!!!
    I have done designs with FPGAs but there always a need to do it with.
    Either large complex circuitry, or even dynamic reconfiguration of the
    circuit needed and either space limits and total cost, the most cases
    was for portable devices.
    But this is not always the case...

    Nice to hear your opinions on this subject..

    PS Thanks for Jameco... .
     
  11. pdmtr

    pdmtr Guest

    Hi Joerg
    Checked TI... Yes the 1$/pc is the final trick!!! Raising the price for
    something that was 10cents/pc gives a good push away from it!!!

    I'm not so sure now if the package migration meaning the continue
    existance of a chip :(
    But hope I'm wrong ;)

    Yes, I'm sure that this last paragraph is true... Just hoping somebody
    out there (IC makers) realize it...
    Have an example of what simplicity is...
    Years ago have done a design where I use a single transistor to open a
    uCU bus instead of a 14DIP IC that competitors use to do it! At some
    cases basic electronic circuitry does the job EXCELLENT!!! But of
    course if we have forget what makes a gate and see it always as a
    'block" then we will always use overkilled ICs to do something simple,
    and then we will try to shrink it so much that we will finally make it
    small enough as the starting basic simple circuit!!!
    Yes, of course we will have alot of "extra power" available for future,
    but that's not always usefull...
    cheers
    Sotiris
     
  12. Sal Brisindi

    Sal Brisindi Guest

  13. Pieter

    Pieter Guest

    No,

    The large manufacteers stop making them. But some smaller ones are
    still making them, and will keep making them as long as there is
    demand. And there are huge lots still available on the market.

    Regards,
    Pieter
    email: without the NOSPAM of course
     
  14. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Hello Sotiris,
    Well, they would not go through the whole ECO release procedure if the
    market for a chip was declining.


    The smart ones do but not all IC manufacturers have smart management ;-)


    It's like with PCs. People become lazy, want everything automated and
    now you need a PC with 256MB of RAM to do the same things that an old
    8086 DOS version could perform in under 500kB. Or look at cars. My first
    one had 16 horses and worked just fine. Today you can't buy any under 50
    horses.

    Keep up your skills to design with discretes. Most young grads can't
    figure it out anymore, meaning that guys like us will have a pretty good
    job security. When I presented my first switch mode supply that did not
    have a PWM controller people stared at the white board. "How on earth
    does this thing work?"

    Regards, Joerg
     
  15. Tim Shoppa

    Tim Shoppa Guest

    A couple of years back on sci.electronics.design, I asked about clever
    ideas for a one-out-of-ten LED sequencer built of discretes, and Spehro
    came up with this five-stage twisted ring counter that was
    self-decoding when driving LED's. I then laid out a circuit board using
    0201 surface-mount discretes and the tiniest LED's I could find, and it
    turned out to all fit inside a 0.4" by 0.8" rectangle (roughly the
    outline of a DIP).

    Tim.
     
  16. Guest

    Hi,

    I just found this thread through a search. I'm looking for a 74LS92 for
    a divide-by-twelve stage in a one-off project. Does anyone know if a
    replacement for the 74LS92 is stocked by any of the major UK
    electronics suppliers like Farnell and RS? If so, what is the product
    number? So far I can only find old stock 74LS92s with small mail order
    suppliers.

    Many thanks,

    Chris
     
  17. Both Cricklewood Electronics (020 8452 0161) and Dalbani (8393 7774)
    list these.

    If you can't get sufficient quantity of LS chips, I believe that the
    HCT version will work equally well.

    --

    rgds
    LAurence

    ....Enter any 12-digit prime number to continue.
    ---*TagZilla 0.059* http://tagzilla.mozdev.org
     
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