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433 mhz license free

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by mkr5000, Jan 7, 2013.

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  1. mkr5000

    mkr5000 Guest

  2. Some of the ISM bands can be used license free, that is with any approval. The transmitted power must be low. AFAIR the FCC part 15 discussed this in details, assuming you are operating in the US. Some devices/bands can be used without license (radio CB), but then your own device must be immune to heavy incoming noise at times

    Regards

    Klaus
     
  3. John S

    John S Guest

    You must read the FCC part 15 rules and regulations and decide for
    yourself if you will comply.

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2010-title47-vol1/content-detail.html

    Look at part 15.

    Much depends on what you want to do. Mostly, the 10mW devices on the
    market are aimed at Europe. The U.S. has no license-free operation on
    that band except for random momentary emissions. That band is also used
    at some military bases in the U.S. for other purposes, including radar
    (hence, the turmoil over garage door openers going haywire in some places).

    Search ARRL.org for more information.

    By the way, I assume that by "FCC certification" you mean licensing. If
    I am wrong about my assumption, please disregard this message.
     
  4. brent

    brent Guest

    It depends on the product and who uses it. For instance, if it is for
    laboratory equipment you may get away with it. If it is for consumer
    product sold in large amounts, then you would likely have to do a part
    15 (which can be the hardest because it is to allow any unlicensed
    consumer the right to transmit -so that is hardest cert for
    manufacturer.)

    Products intended for licensed users tend to be easier to authorize on
    the manufacturer side.

    Some products (ie equipments that may radiate but not intended to
    transmit , or laboratory equip) can be "self certified" .

    http://www.bureauveritas.com/wps/wc...quently_Asked_Questions_Aug10.pdf?MOD=AJPERES
     
  5. brent

    brent Guest

    There are two aspects to FCC compliance.

    1 is the right to manufacture a transmitting device. This is the
    authorization or certification side. (possibly other names too).

    2 is the right to operate a transmitting device. This is the license
    side.
     
  6. mike

    mike Guest

    Don't confuse licensing with compliance.

    Your ENTIRE product must be tested/certified to comply with radiation
    and conducted interference
    specifications in the jurisdiction where sold.
    If you are in compliance, you get to "legally" put stickers on it
    that buyers require.

    It's more about NOT radiating than radiating.

    The TRANSMITTER is on top of that.
    Radiation on the intended frequency is only part of the problem.
    It must NOT exceed radiation limits on other frequencies.

    Unlicensed merely frees the buyers from having to file paperwork
    for each installation of the device or site.

    If you're selling a component, as it appears the ebay link is...
    It's to their advantage to have test results showing compliance,
    but that does not relieve the system integrator of testing the system
    for compliance.

    Regulatory compliance is an expensive maze of regulations.

    It's routinely disregarded for hobby stuff...until somebody calls the
    FCC and says their TV is picking up interference.
    But that does not make it "legal"...just too expensive to enforce.

    If you intend to ship an end-user device without compliance stickers,
    prepare to have it stuck in customs forever. They don't know or care
    whether
    it actually complies. They want to see the stickers.

    And there's a plethora of safety compliance issues in addition to the EMC
    stuff.

    Are we having fun yet?
     
  7. Guest

    Huh? "Part 15" is the section of the federal regulations (CFR 47 part
    15) that regulates *all* unlicensed emissions, intentional *and*
    unintentional. You have to "do a part 15" for *all* emitters, whether
    they're intended for licensed use or not (there will be emissions
    outside the licensed frequency).
    You can always self certify (certification labs have no special
    magic). If you're wrong you could be in deep water, though.
     
  8. brent

    brent Guest

    As a specific example, I have successfully has three part 87 products
    authorized by the FCC. These products are for aviation and in this
    case it is substantially easier than a part 15 becasue the testing
    which is required is easily accomplished with a equipment found in a
    decent rf lab.

    In the case of part 87, the big key (beyond the fairly straightforward
    data package) is to get the coordination letter from the FAA which
    tells the FCC that they like your equipment.

    I suspect there are many other FCC parts similar to part 87. Aircraft
    radio equipment is technically operated by licensed operators. So
    that is why I say that it is easier. My impression is that part 15
    stuff is generally the hardest stuff to get authorized (certified).
    Anyhow, its been a while since I did this and I mostly studied what I
    needed to do to get the part 87 authorization.

    BTW there is tons of information available on the FCC website here:

    As an example - take your car remote thingy.

    Mine has an FCC ID of KOBLEAR1XT

    go to :

    http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/fccid/

    The grantee code is the first 3 letters (KOB) - the rest is the
    product code (LEAR1XT).

    Type this in and you can see the data package submitted to the FCC
    (except proprietary schematics ) by looking at the details.

    In the case of a remote car entry you will see it is 315 MHz (which
    happens to have the 5th harmonic fall right on the GPS band -
    bwahahaha).
     
  9. Guest

    "Authorized by the FCC?" Where is that in the regs.

    Then you didn't do all the work that was required. You *STILL* need
    to comply with *all* of the relevant part-15 compliance issues.
    Intentional radiators still radiate unintentionally.
    Goalpost move noted.
     
  10. mkr5000

    mkr5000 Guest

  11. mkr5000

    mkr5000 Guest

    Did that "test" because I still don't get this new format -- now I do.

    Ok -- let me simplify this.

    At what frequency can I have a xmtr/rcvr pair or a transceiver module operate with simple logic (on/off or a short serial stream of data)at LOW power need maybe a 50 ft range at most -- put it in a product -- and not worry about the FCC, period? (Assuming it's not a sloppy design and transmits as intended -- with my own tests).

    USA only. (915 mhz?) This whole thing always confuses me.

    Do one of these bands allow that? need at least UHF for antenna size.

    THANK YOU.
     
  12. hamilton

    hamilton Guest

    NONE !!

    Do not confuse hobby grade radiators with a product.

    You HAVE to tell the FCC that your product will have a Xmitter in it.

    Now if you buy an already approved Xmitter/Recvr that has FCC testing
    behind it, thats ok.

    But you are not going to side-step the FCC just because "its just a low
    power Xmitter".

    If you selling it to the public, then it need FCC testing and reporting.

    OK ?

    hamilton
     
  13. mkr5000

    mkr5000 Guest

    I should have read these posts more thoroughly -- from everything you all say, ain't no way -- ANYTHING that emits RF (any frequency) needs to get FCCcertification if it's a consumer product. Seems crazy if your just lookingfor 50 feet of distance and it's simple data -- RF would interfere more with analog stuff anyway right? Does analog still exist? (kidding).

    Honestly, all I want to do is eliminate a single pair of wire for a random on/off and THAT'S it (much like a garage door opener etc).

    I suppose the only way out is too seek a pre--certified module from a manufacturer? But I need CHEAP.
     
  14. brent

    brent Guest

    Seriously?

    here is direct text from the regs:

    http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/CFR-2007-title47-vol1/xml/CFR-2007-title47-vol1-sec15-101.xml

    Here is a page on the fcc website which discusses equipment
    authorization


    http://transition.fcc.gov/oet/ea/

    Goal post not moved... context is whether a part 15 authorization is
    more difficult than other authorizations... I believe as a general
    rule it is.
     
  15. mkr5000

    mkr5000 Guest

    Thanks Hamilton -- I'm stubborn, I guess.
    Wishful thinking.
     
  16. brent

    brent Guest

  17. mkr5000

    mkr5000 Guest

    for general public but don't anticipate high volume sales as all.

    so -- final question --

    Can I "self certify"? That is an excellent resource you linked me to -- THANKS
     
  18. mkr5000

    mkr5000 Guest

    by the way -- seems extremely crazy when for example with this part --

    https://www.linxtechnologies.com/en/products/modules/lc-rf-transmitter

    it's just a module and an antenna !
    what exactly are you going to "tweak" to get in FCC compliance?
     
  19. Guest

    If your application, for example, mounts the module above a large ground plane, you can possibly end up exceeding the FCC part 15 specifications. If you have to alter the antenna placement or type for example, you can exceed specifications.

    Steve
     
  20. Owen Roberts

    Owen Roberts Guest

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