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12-volt matrix input->output?

J

Jan Panteltje

Jan 1, 1970
0
I thought we had a new "rule" here - anybody who says, "Use a PIC"
without showing their code shall be considered a "Troll". ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

Na, if you publish the code (I once did) then they also want a free programmer.
 
J

John E.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Jan Panteltje sez:
Na, if you publish the code (I once did) then they also want a free
programmer.

Please don't let a few "can't do it"s keep you from putting up a creative PIC
code solution. There's many of us who would delve into the magic PIC world if
a programming solution was offered that was tempting enough.

Some day...
 
P

Palindrome

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
Jan Panteltje sez:




Please don't let a few "can't do it"s keep you from putting up a creative PIC
code solution. There's many of us who would delve into the magic PIC world if
a programming solution was offered that was tempting enough.

Some day...

Can I suggest:

http://www.magenta2000.co.uk/kits/870.htm

It comes with a huge set of tutorial examples, starting from the
extremely simple. Each example fully works but is meant to be modified,
so that you learn by making small changes and proving that they work -
rather than try to get a whole program right from scratch.


I've recommended it to a few people that had never written a line of
code before - and every one got on well with it.

The final examples are *demanding* - highly advanced techniques that
really take some understanding, so it is a good kit for someone who can
manage simple stuff, but wants to get to grips with more of the features
that PICs provide.


My latest little PIC project controls my central heating, hot water and
heat exchangers. It sits on my LAN, so I can monitor and control
everything from anywhere - even the office. Even your office.
 
R

Rich Grise

Jan 1, 1970
0
Can I suggest:

http://www.magenta2000.co.uk/kits/870.htm

It comes with a huge set of tutorial examples, starting from the extremely
simple. Each example fully works but is meant to be modified, so that you
learn by making small changes and proving that they work - rather than try
to get a whole program right from scratch.

I've recommended it to a few people that had never written a line of code
before - and every one got on well with it.

The final examples are *demanding* - highly advanced techniques that
really take some understanding, so it is a good kit for someone who can
manage simple stuff, but wants to get to grips with more of the features
that PICs provide.

My latest little PIC project controls my central heating, hot water and
heat exchangers. It sits on my LAN, so I can monitor and control
everything from anywhere - even the office. Even your office.

It's nice to know that there are starter kits that, well, continue. :)
In fact, the first (and only) time I won the blue ribbon at the science
fair, my folks had gotten me a 1-transistor "starter kit", which I
enhanced by buying a transistor and enhancing the circuit based on stuff
that I had read.

But I'm prejudiced against the PIC, because I believe that bank switching
is evil.

Thanks!
Rich
[ ;-) ]
 
S

Spehro Pefhany

Jan 1, 1970
0
It's nice to know that there are starter kits that, well, continue. :)
In fact, the first (and only) time I won the blue ribbon at the science
fair, my folks had gotten me a 1-transistor "starter kit", which I
enhanced by buying a transistor and enhancing the circuit based on stuff
that I had read.

But I'm prejudiced against the PIC, because I believe that bank switching
is evil.

So, use the 18F or 24 series. There's not much spam^H^H^H^H bank
switching in it/them.
Thanks!
Rich
[ ;-) ]


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
 
J

John E.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich Grise sez:
But I'm prejudiced against the PIC, because I believe that bank switching
is evil.

What's your flavor of evil? What PIC-competitor do you favor?
 
J

John E.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Palindrome sez:
My latest little PIC project controls my central heating, hot water and
heat exchangers. It sits on my LAN, so I can monitor and control
everything from anywhere - even the office. Even your office.

*That* I want to see (code, interface, all). I'd learn to program with awl on
stainless steel if I could do create project like that as my first (c: ...
 
P

Palindrome

Jan 1, 1970
0
John said:
Palindrome sez:




*That* I want to see (code, interface, all). I'd learn to program with awl on
stainless steel if I could do create project like that as my first (c: ...

That sort of code is the last thing that I would show someone seriously
thinking of learning. It would be like presenting someone who wanted to
understand engine design with an F1 racing car engine. Better to start
with a one cylinder gas engine.

"Education is a process of diminishing deception", springs to mind.

I would suggest that the secret of picking up a programming language is
to take very small steps, with the current program always understood and
working before moving on to the next. There is nothing more demoralising
than taking a "Giant Leap" - only to end up not having a clue as to
where you have landed and why..
 
J

John E.

Jan 1, 1970
0
Palindrome sez:
That sort of code is the last thing that I would show someone seriously
thinking of learning. It would be like presenting someone who wanted to
understand engine design with an F1 racing car engine. Better to start
with a one cylinder gas engine.

I'd look on your project like an art student looks on the Mona Lisa; as
something representing the penultimate of the art, something to aspire to.

Come on! Show-n-tell time...

"Education is a process of diminishing *self*-deception"? (c:
 
R

Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Rich Grise sez:


What's your flavor of evil? What PIC-competitor do you favor?

Actually, this is kind of a two-sided question. If by "your flavor of
evil" you mean "what do you, personally, deem to be 'evil' and why?",
I'd say, I deem bank-switching to be evil because it encourages
incomprehensible, unstructured, haphazard code that's just a bug looking
for a time to happen.

My response is, well even the 8051, piece of crap that it is, is less
worse.

My first choice would have to be either one of the FPGA/CPLD houses,
whose products don't constrain you very much at all, or, yes, Motorola,
who now goes by Freescale, or so I've heard. The nicest micro I've
ever had the pleasure to program from scratch so far has been the
68HC11, which, presumably because it was so sophicasted and classy,
seems to have died on the vine, preumbably because they were too
expensive. )-;

If you mean "What kind of evil do you prefer?", my personal preference
of what's "evil" would be those power-trippers who are routinely raping
our Constitution of the United States of America. My cure, of course, as
directed in the Declaration of Independence, would be to take down the
usurpers of the Constitution of the United States of America, and see to
it that they get what they deserve, which is life behind bars, or at the
end of a rope.

Freedom is my Worship Word. The only Bible I need is The Declaration
of Independence and the Constitution of the United States.

And in keeping with my doctrine of Freedom, you are certainly more
than welcome to do as you choose as far as PICs and 555s and bank
switching, or whatever you want. Which might sound weird to those
of you whose mind is only big enough to grasp one concept at a time. ;-)

"Imagine! He can not like something, but it's still OK for other people
to do it? Incomprehensible!!!!!"
-- any roob

Thanks!
Rich
 
R

Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Palindrome sez:


*That* I want to see (code, interface, all). I'd learn to program with awl
on stainless steel if I could do create project like that as my first (c:
...

That's another thing about PICcies - they always say, "Use a PIC", without
ever saying "THIS IS HOW you 'use a pic'" or providing any kind of docs.

I say, anybody who says "use a pic", without providing "HOW" or "WHY" to
"use a pic" (e.g., how is it cheaper than an astable multivibrator, which
is done THIS way) should be deemed a troll.

And, for that matter, "use a 555" fits into the same category. It's as if
I, who have 20 years' experience slapping together astable multivibrators,
were to say, "Use an astable multivibrator" to some newbie (which each and
every single one of us [and the married ones too, <rimshot>] was at one
time) who hasn't even heard the term "astable multivibrator".

Bottom line, I deem myself much too classy to pull that kind of stunt. ;-)

Thanks,
Rich
 
P

Palindrome

Jan 1, 1970
0
Palindrome sez:



*That* I want to see (code, interface, all). I'd learn to program with awl
on stainless steel if I could do create project like that as my first (c:
...


That's another thing about PICcies - they always say, "Use a PIC", without
ever saying "THIS IS HOW you 'use a pic'" or providing any kind of docs.

I say, anybody who says "use a pic", without providing "HOW" or "WHY" to
"use a pic" (e.g., how is it cheaper than an astable multivibrator, which
is done THIS way) should be deemed a troll.

And, for that matter, "use a 555" fits into the same category. It's as if
I, who have 20 years' experience slapping together astable multivibrators,
were to say, "Use an astable multivibrator" to some newbie (which each and
every single one of us [and the married ones too, <rimshot>] was at one
time) who hasn't even heard the term "astable multivibrator".

Bottom line, I deem myself much too classy to pull that kind of stunt. ;-)
Erm, can point out anywhere in this thread that I have proposed using a
PIC for this project, or indeed anything electronic?

I wrote purely in response to a self-confessed PIC Virgin, who seemed to
want to develop skills in using them. I wrote purely about the learning
process.

It is extremely unlikely that a PIC will be the most appropriate
solution for a one-off project being undertaken by someone who has never
used one. It's much the same as suggesting that a "welding virgin" welds
two bits of aluminium together, when a pop rivet will do.

However, just as spending a bit of time learning to weld aluminium can
come useful in project after project after project, spending the time
learning to program PICs can pay off, if you have project after project
after project to complete.

I notice that, in another thread, when I suggested the poster considered
using a portable generator instead of an inverter + batteries, you
didn't complain about me not describing in detail how to spec the
generator. Yet you seem to think that a PIC solution can't be suggested
without that level of detail included...


There is an advantage to mentioning the possibility of using a PIC in a
thread - even when the OP clearly hasn't got the necessary skills. I am
sure that the OP, and other readers unfamiliar with PICs, will see the
number of times that they are suggested and get to maybe start thinking
that they are missing out and it might be worth spending a bit of time
adding them to their skill set.

BTW, it is extremely easy to give you an example of where a PIC will be
cheaper than using a standard astable. A PIC "astable" circuit board can
be reprogrammed in situ to change parameter over a huge range - with no
change in physical components. Or the same board can be reprogrammed to
an entirely different functionality, with no change in physical
components. Rather than develop and stock a large number of boards for
different applications, you just develop one, stock one and just program
it for the application, when it is put into use.
 
R

Rich Grise, Plainclothes Hippie

Jan 1, 1970
0
Palindrome sez:


I'd look on your project like an art student looks on the Mona Lisa; as
something representing the penultimate of the art, something to aspire to.

Come on! Show-n-tell time...

"Education is a process of diminishing *self*-deception"? (c:

I once heard: "Education is the process of inserting abstract thoughts
into concrete heads."

;-)
Rich
 
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