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12 Volt connectors in house

K

Ken Finney

Jan 1, 1970
0
Steve Spence said:
Most houses have 240 (220) vac circuits, so the standard 220vac connector
isn't code compliant, for low voltage dc.

1. How many alternative energy homes with 12 v circuits ALSO have 240 v
circuits? In the "old days", there were a lot of 12 v only systems, then
with the improvement in inverters, many of these homes put in 120 v circuits
as well. Did many of these homes put in 240 v circuits also? I was under
the impression that most new alternative energy homes were all 120/240 with
no 12v, so this issue is moot.

2. Does anyone know what the Code says in this situation: If you have 240v
circuits, but they are all the big "dryer/over/welder" type, is it allowable
to use the standard size 240v receptacles for low voltage DC?
 
C

clare @ snyder.on .ca

Jan 1, 1970
0
Most houses have 240 (220) vac circuits, so the standard 220vac connector
isn't code compliant, for low voltage dc.

Most houses have 30 and 50 amp 220 connectors - for stove and drier.
The "non-standard" 20 and 15 amp plugs, and twist-locks, would be code
compliant. There is no problem code-wize if a 220 volt device can be
connected to low voltage DC - only if low-voltage appliances can be
connected to 220. Most of the "non-standard" 220 connectors are only
used industrially or commercially.
That said, the UK standard 220 volt (10 amp?) connectors with the
switch on them (to keep the electricity from leaking????) make good DC
connectors in North America, as they are not "standard" for anything
here. Only problem is getting them. A switch helps prevent arcing when
connecting and disconnecting.
 
S

Scott Willing

Jan 1, 1970
0
240v receptacles that are the same size as 120v, but with a different
orientation of the "prongs" were what I thought most people used?

That's the one. Looks exactly like a standard 120V connector except
both current-carrying prongs are the same size (vs. the larger neutral
prong for 120V) and one is at right angles to the other.

There *are* lots of 240V connectors that are of the monster
stove/dryer variety, and there's always a little confusion with those
when this discussion arises.

The smaller 240V ones are nice from the standpoint that they aren't
overly expensive, and they do fit standard outlet boxes and cover
plates. I just installed a weatherproof outdoor outlet for my portable
12V pump, and it was nice not to have to futz around with customized
mounting for some offbeat connector.

Cheers,
-=s
 
B

Bob Adkins

Jan 1, 1970
0
Check out some of the other areas at that site. They have mounting
kits for the sockets, as well as power panels with multiple outlets.

Ah. Cool!

Bob
 
B

Bob Adkins

Jan 1, 1970
0
Check out some of the other areas at that site. They have mounting
kits for the sockets, as well as power panels with multiple outlets.

The more I look, the more I like Power Poles. However, they look like an
accident waiting to happen. Unless I'm missing something, there is no
polarity protection.

Bob
 
C

clare @ snyder.on .ca

Jan 1, 1970
0
The more I look, the more I like Power Poles. However, they look like an
accident waiting to happen. Unless I'm missing something, there is no
polarity protection.

Bob
Impossible to connect an anderson backwords - they are by nature
polarized. You just have to know which side you want pos on supply, it
will be opposite on load.
 
B

Bob Adkins

Jan 1, 1970
0
Impossible to connect an anderson backwords - they are by nature
polarized. You just have to know which side you want pos on supply, it
will be opposite on load.

Ah. Good. I just don't understand how they work.

I think I'll get me a bunch.

Bob
 
CM said:
Check out some of the other areas at that site. They have mounting
kits for the sockets, as well as power panels with multiple outlets.

Anybody happen to know a maker/part number for a cheap chassis punch
suitable for making the holes for the chassis mount PowerPole housings in
standard blank outlet covers? I thinking of a few nice black-anodized
aluminum power panels in the ham shack, and maybe for the car, with
somewhat-standard-looking outlet plates in the other rooms.
 
B

Bob Adkins

Jan 1, 1970
0
Anybody happen to know a maker/part number for a cheap chassis punch
suitable for making the holes for the chassis mount PowerPole housings in
standard blank outlet covers? I thinking of a few nice black-anodized
aluminum power panels in the ham shack, and maybe for the car, with
somewhat-standard-looking outlet plates in the other rooms.

Anderson may have them, but if they do one will probably cost a gazillion
dollars. A simple Power Pole crimping tool is so expensive it makes me reel
backwards.

You're better off buying the plates I guess. I suppose they could be trimmed
down a little to fit better on small housings.

Bob
 
S

Scott Willing

Jan 1, 1970
0
The common convention seems to be positive on the "hot" (brass screw),
and negative on "netural". This makes sense, as if either DC leg is
grounded it's usually the negative one... except in telco facilities.

DC CF bulbs with a standard Edison base are set up the same way,
expecting +12V at the tip.

When wiring some of these up recently, I considered tying the neutral
and ground contacts together on both ends, to reduce voltage drop a bit,
but wasn't sure if the NEC allowed it. Assuming battery-negative is
grounded, do the "groundED" vs. "groundING" conductor separation
requirements still apply to DC circuits? I've yet to encounter a DC
appliance that needed a dedicated ground wire.

You're probably not watching this thread any more. The idea of safety
ground is mainly to keep touchable parts at ground potential. The
ground wire should only ever carry current in a fault situation, e.g.
the hot insulation fails, connecting the hot to the chassis. Ground
wire carries the current back to the panel and the breaker trips.

With low voltage stuff the same principles apply but with somewhat
less concern I suppose.

NEC would never allow connecting ground and neutral (or negative) at
both ends of anything. They're supposed to come together at one point
only, and as I said ground is never supposed to carry current except
when something has gone wrong.

Typically nothing "needs" a dedicated ground wire to function, not
even a ground fault detector(!)

I know what you're saying though... you bring the safety ground to the
outlet box, connect it dutifully to the box and the outlet, but
nothing that you ever plug in there has a chassis ground connection
anyway. I figure oh well, at least the box is grounded. That and a
bloody chicken should keep the evil spirits away.

-=s
 
B

Bob Adkins

Jan 1, 1970
0
Another approach could be to drill a pilot hole with a drill press,
then use a sheet metal "nibbler" tool or a file to square out the
hole. The clips shown on the PowerPole website secures them in place.

I've wanted to buy a nibbler for years. That goes on my Christmas list. :)

Bob
 
Z

zeromedic

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you're pneumatically-enabled, that's an option worth considering.

Dave

RatShack sells a $10-$15 hand nibbler tool that works pretty good.

Works great for aluminium, nylon. shatters some plastics. wears out
(dulls) quickly when nibbling steel over 12 guage.

zero
 
B

Bob Adkins

Jan 1, 1970
0
If you're pneumatically-enabled, that's an option worth considering.

I'm fully functional. Dr. Sung didn't leave anything out. :)

Bob
 
B

Bob Adkins

Jan 1, 1970
0
I'm not sure what's more scary...that you made that reference, or that I
caught it.

I had no doubt you would catch it.

Bob
 
D

daestrom

Jan 1, 1970
0
Bob Adkins said:
I had no doubt you would catch it.

Bob

And even worse, that I noticed you used a contraction instead of...

"I am fully functional. Dr. Sung did not leave anything out. :)

daestrom
 
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