1000 year data storage for autonomous robotic facility

[Bernhard Kuemel]

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years. One of the
problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems for this period.
What methods do you think are suitable?

Top priority is it must work about 1000 years. Price is not a big issue,
if necessary.

I thought about this:

ROMs/PROMs, replacing them when checksum fails.

ROM/PROM masters, being copied once a year to flash ROM.

1000 flash ROMs, refreshing once a year from the ones that still have a
valid checksum.

Non electronic masters:

Microfilm/microfiche
HD-Rosetta (ion beam engraved nickel disc)
glass CD/DVD
Paper [2]
punched cards

The drawback of the non electronic masters is their reader system which
can fail mechanically/optically (dust, gears, ...) and requires
electronic components/firmware themselves.

Is it possible to make robots or their spare parts that suffer only
minor degradation when kept as spare parts for 1000 years at good
storage conditions? semiconductors, inductors, (non electrolytic)
capacitors, circuit boards, plastic/metal structures, CCD/CMOS cameras,
actuators, solar cells, thermo couples, etc. Batteries are probably
difficult.


Thanks, Bernhard


[1]
http://www.norsam.com/rosetta.html
http://www.norsam.com/nanorosettawp.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-Rosetta

[2]
something like http://ronja.twibright.com/optar/

[3]
A cold store to keep humans frozen (vitrified) in LN2 until mind
uploading (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading#Serial_sectioning ) becomes
possible.

 

[benj]

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years. One of the
problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems for this period.
What methods do you think are suitable?

Top priority is it must work about 1000 years. Price is not a big issue,
if necessary.

I thought about this:

ROMs/PROMs, replacing them when checksum fails.

ROM/PROM masters, being copied once a year to flash ROM.

1000 flash ROMs, refreshing once a year from the ones that still have a
valid checksum.

Non electronic masters:

Microfilm/microfiche HD-Rosetta (ion beam engraved nickel disc)
glass CD/DVD Paper [2]
punched cards

The drawback of the non electronic masters is their reader system which
can fail mechanically/optically (dust, gears, ...) and requires
electronic components/firmware themselves.

Is it possible to make robots or their spare parts that suffer only
minor degradation when kept as spare parts for 1000 years at good
storage conditions? semiconductors, inductors, (non electrolytic)
capacitors, circuit boards, plastic/metal structures, CCD/CMOS cameras,
actuators, solar cells, thermo couples, etc. Batteries are probably
difficult.

Digital data for 1000 years? Are you kidding? There is no way to keep
digital data for 20 years let alone more.

Lenz's law" If it rotates it sucks! (That would be Dave Lenz a guy I
went to school with)

All mechanical devices doomed!

Flash Rom. I've had those fail in a month or so. Definitely not long term
storage. Hard drives are better.

Cd Roms. while commercial ones don't do too bad (gold) ..20 years. I've
had recordable ones fail in just a couple years. BAD idea in addition to
being mechanical!

Paper tape... better than most but not very compact. Modern paper is not
very archival though. Low acid paper needed. Same goes for punch cards
with even lower data density and mechanical reader problems. Papyrus
punch cards?

Mask-programmable ROMS are a possibility. Can have cosmic ray damage if
structure small and not redundant enough. Also other radiation damage
(nuclear war etc.) Not read-write.

By far best time-tested system is cuneiform clay tablets. You heard it
here first. A gigabyte of cuneiform data makes quite a pile though!

Only other method is the currently used one: Multiple servers with parts
constantly manufactured and replaced. (not such a simple robotic job)

 

[benj]

Oxygen is your first enemy, water your second. Consider a nitrogen
atmosphere in a hermetically sealed concrete and glass container. Roman
walls have still stood for 2000 years.

Right. That is because Roman walls are hermetically sealed in concrete
and glass with a nitrogen atmosphere. No oxygen or water ever gets near
them!

To guard against natural disasters (earthquakes, volcanoes,
tsunamis etc.) use redundancy, three identical containers in widely
separated geographic locations.

I'd suggest places without people would be safer.

Andro is still an idiot. (See what I mean about no people?)

(Posting in HTML is the proof of idiocy. Say no more)

 

[Rod Speed]

Hi!
Lo!!!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years.

Have fun actually achieving that.

One of the problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems
for this period. What methods do you think are suitable?

Keep updating the media used as the most commonly used changes.

Have fun doing that autonomously.

Top priority is it must work about 1000 years.
Price is not a big issue, if necessary.

I thought about this:

ROMs/PROMs, replacing them when checksum fails.

You'd be better with a proper CRC instead of a checksum.

ROM/PROM masters, being copied once a year to flash ROM.

Not sure that gets you anywhere much.

1000 flash ROMs, refreshing once a year
from the ones that still have a valid checksum.

Non electronic masters:

Microfilm/microfiche
HD-Rosetta (ion beam engraved nickel disc)
glass CD/DVD
Paper [2]
punched cards

No point in bothering with those last two.

The drawback of the non electronic masters is their reader
system which can fail mechanically/optically (dust, gears, ...)
and requires electronic components/firmware themselves.

Is it possible to make robots or their spare parts that suffer
only minor degradation when kept as spare parts for 1000
years at good storage conditions?

Yes, if you make the parts out of gold, they will last that long.

And there are other approaches which will for stuff like gears too.

semiconductors, inductors, (non electrolytic) capacitors,

No one really knows how they will do in 1000 years,
we haven't had them for long enough yet.

But if your factory can just keep making more as they
die, you don't need them to last for 1000 years.

circuit boards, plastic/metal structures, CCD/CMOS
cameras, actuators, solar cells, thermo couples, etc.

The real problem with most of those is that its just
a tad unlikely that anyone much but a collector will
want to be using a 1000 year old designed robot
in 1000 years. Whats been developed since then
will leave them for dead, just like we have seen
with cars and planes etc in only 100 years.

Batteries are probably difficult.

Nope, not if you keep making new replacements.

Thanks, Bernhard

[1]
http://www.norsam.com/rosetta.html
http://www.norsam.com/nanorosettawp.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HD-Rosetta

[2]
something like http://ronja.twibright.com/optar/

[3]
A cold store to keep humans frozen (vitrified) in LN2 until mind uploading
(
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mind_uploading#Serial_sectioning ) becomes
possible.

Its unlikely that there will be anything to upload once that become
possible.

 

[Wally W.]

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years. One of the
problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems for this period.
What methods do you think are suitable?

By far best time-tested system is cuneiform clay tablets. You heard it
here first. A gigabyte of cuneiform data makes quite a pile though!

The seek time may also leave something to be desired.

 

[Arno]

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years.

Not feasible today. Even 100 years is far, far out of reach.

One of the
problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems for this period.
What methods do you think are suitable?

Top priority is it must work about 1000 years. Price is not a big issue,
if necessary.

I thought about this:

ROMs/PROMs, replacing them when checksum fails.

Forget it. They have a shelf-life of < 100 years and
damage by heavy charged particles does not care whether it is on
or off. Sockets will also live much, much shorter.

ROM/PROM masters, being copied once a year to flash ROM.

Same as above.

1000 flash ROMs, refreshing once a year from the ones that still have a
valid checksum.

Same as above.

Non electronic masters:

Microfilm/microfiche

The cards may keep 50-100 years, but the reader will not.

HD-Rosetta (ion beam engraved nickel disc)

Again, the player is the problem.

glass CD/DVD

Glass changes its shape over time. Much more slowly than
commonly believed but will be a problem.

Paper [2]

Forget it. Gets very shaky at > 200 years. And any reader will not
even last 30 years.

punched cards

Same as last, although very good mechanical readers (diamond
bearings, all gold construcion and ceramic insulators for the
wiring) may make it to 100 years or so.

The drawback of the non electronic masters is their reader system which
can fail mechanically/optically (dust, gears, ...) and requires
electronic components/firmware themselves.

Same for the electonical masters.

Is it possible to make robots or their spare parts that suffer only
minor degradation when kept as spare parts for 1000 years at good
storage conditions?

No. And power is an issue as well. There is no known power
source that can last even 100 years.

semiconductors, inductors, (non electrolytic)
capacitors, circuit boards, plastic/metal structures, CCD/CMOS cameras,
actuators, solar cells, thermo couples, etc.

Expect increased failure at 30=50 years, unless stored yeru cold.

Batteries are probably difficult.

Infeasible is the word you are looking for.

Sorry, but while fun, even keeping digital data for even 100
years without constant refreshment is basically infeasible
today and 30 years is a pretty large challenge.

MOD can give you 50-80 years for the media, but the drives
only last 5-10 years. Archoival tape is not much better.
The only real option for reliable 100 years today is
high-quality printing on high-quality paper with non-degrading
ink. Laser flakes off, standard ink bleaches out and may
even eat the paper. Of course, this needs dry and cool
storage in addition.

At >100 years, things like degrading insulations and PCBs
become real. Long before that. dissolving soldering joints,
thin and zinc whiskers, etc. become a concern.

Basically, forget it.

Arno

 

[Arno]

And I suppose man can???t go to the moon, either. Nay,nay,nay!

BS. Man cannot stay on the moon even today. A quick run there and
back is easy if efficiency and cost is not an issue. Also completely
unrelated and irrelevant. Far more relevant is that the design
docs from the original moon program are gone and these rockets
would have to be redesigned from scratch today.

Funny how the Dead Sea Scrolls are still readable after 2000 years
and a pity they were not stored in an oxygen free atmosphere.

And funny how many more comparable scrolls are completely gone.
Do you even understand what "reliably" means?

Ever seen the writing on the inside of a 3000 year old Egyptian
coffin? The OP only wants 1/3 of that.

First, the OP wants much, much more as he wants a robotic storage
system, i.e. working mechanics and electronics! Second, I doubt that
the OP is willing to build pyramids in dry dessert even if he said
that cost was secondary. Keep in mind that even the pyramids were
robbed pretty soon, only a few hundred years after being built.
(And yes, I have seen the pyramids, Valley of the Kings, etc.)

-- This message is brought to you from the keyboard of
Lord Androcles, Zeroth Earl of Medway.

a.k.a. "The Clueless".

You really have no idea what you are talking about. Look
up the "Dunning-Kruger Effect" some time, you seem to be
a prime victim.

Arno

 

[John Dulak]

Who was it that postulated "No machine may have any moving parts?"

Arno:

That would be Arthur C. Clarke in his 1953 novel "The City and the Stars".

Jjohn

--
\\\||///
------------------o000----(o)(o)----000o----------------
----------------------------()--------------------------
'' Madness takes its toll - Please have exact change. ''

John Dulak - 40.4888ºN,79.899ºW - http://tinyurl.com/3lvoh2n

 

[Wally W.]

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years.

For whom?

Who will care about *our* data in 1000 years?

What do we know that they won't?

If you envision a collapse of civilization in the mean time, what is
the nature of the disruption that your facility must survive?
Nuclear war? Asteroid?

If civilization is in dire straights, why would they not cannibalize
the facility for whatever technology could be scavenged?

If you want to protect the facility from the early sufferers of the
collapse, why do want to help their expected progeny, but not *them*?

If the early sufferers are left to their decline, how do you know
there will *be* future progeny to help?

Will the character of those who survived the attrition (or
elimination) of all others be better than those you tried to exclude
from the facility earlier?

Uncle Al: Conservation [including knowledge as a resource?] means
somebody else in the future deserves to consume it; and not them,
either.

If it is to be found by ET, they may be unimpressed. They know how to
travel between stars. Nothing in our 1000 year-old archive will help
them repair their warp drive.

 

[Shadow]

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years. One of the
problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems for this period.
What methods do you think are suitable?

Top priority is it must work about 1000 years. Price is not a big issue,
if necessary.

I thought about this:

Sorry to be a spoiler, but you sound like you are off your
meds. Or you are writing a SF book.
Any hardware would be obsolete in 10 years time. Think back
1000 years. Imagine making a self repairing shed to keep your
horse-driven cart nice and ready-to go. Assuming the shed had not been
bombed, set on fire, flooded, hit by lightning, a meteor, vandalized,
whatever, how useful would that cart be today ?
[]'s

 

[benj]

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years. One of the
problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems for this period.
What methods do you think are suitable?

Top priority is it must work about 1000 years. Price is not a big issue,
if necessary.

I thought about this:

Sorry to be a spoiler, but you sound like you are off your
meds. Or you are writing a SF book.
Any hardware would be obsolete in 10 years time. Think back
1000 years. Imagine making a self repairing shed to keep your
horse-driven cart nice and ready-to go. Assuming the shed had not been
bombed, set on fire, flooded, hit by lightning, a meteor, vandalized,
whatever, how useful would that cart be today ?
[]'s

Would be extremely useful. First off it's historic and of interest from
that viewpoint. And secondly I'd point out that there are more horses
alive and owned today than there were back when everyone used one for
transportation.

So the fact that it's "outdated" technology doesn't make it of no
interest. Stone cave man tools are still of great interest to us though
we don't use one to build things anymore.

 

[Shadow]

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years. One of the
problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems for this period.
What methods do you think are suitable?

Top priority is it must work about 1000 years. Price is not a big issue,
if necessary.

I thought about this:

Sorry to be a spoiler, but you sound like you are off your
meds. Or you are writing a SF book.
Any hardware would be obsolete in 10 years time. Think back
1000 years. Imagine making a self repairing shed to keep your
horse-driven cart nice and ready-to go. Assuming the shed had not been
bombed, set on fire, flooded, hit by lightning, a meteor, vandalized,
whatever, how useful would that cart be today ?
[]'s

Would be extremely useful. First off it's historic and of interest from
that viewpoint. And secondly I'd point out that there are more horses
alive and owned today than there were back when everyone used one for
transportation.

So the fact that it's "outdated" technology doesn't make it of no
interest. Stone cave man tools are still of great interest to us though
we don't use one to build things anymore.

Aha, a historian's point of view. If he wants to keep data,
why doesn't he just microprint it , seal it up in a vacuum , and bury
it somewhere ?
No need for any electronics or hardware after the act.
I'm sure people could restore that in 1000 years time, if we
are still a species then.
[]'s

 

[benj]

On Fri, 03 May 2013 10:36:35 +0200, Bernhard Kuemel
<[email protected]>
wrote:

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years. One of
the problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems for this
period. What methods do you think are suitable?

Top priority is it must work about 1000 years. Price is not a big
issue,
if necessary.

I thought about this:

Sorry to be a spoiler, but you sound like you are off your
meds. Or you are writing a SF book.
Any hardware would be obsolete in 10 years time. Think back
1000 years. Imagine making a self repairing shed to keep your
horse-driven cart nice and ready-to go. Assuming the shed had not been
bombed, set on fire, flooded, hit by lightning, a meteor, vandalized,
whatever, how useful would that cart be today ?
[]'s

Would be extremely useful. First off it's historic and of interest from
that viewpoint. And secondly I'd point out that there are more horses
alive and owned today than there were back when everyone used one for
transportation.

So the fact that it's "outdated" technology doesn't make it of no
interest. Stone cave man tools are still of great interest to us though
we don't use one to build things anymore.

Aha, a historian's point of view. If he wants to keep data,
why doesn't he just microprint it , seal it up in a vacuum , and bury it
somewhere ?
No need for any electronics or hardware after the act.
I'm sure people could restore that in 1000 years time, if we
are still a species then.
[]'s

Yes, that would be great for storing history, but the problem posed was
slightly different. He wants to keep robot firmware alive (uncorrupted)
for 1000 years. That of course brings a 1000 year reader into the
picture. You just picked "man" as the 1000 year reader which is FAR less
then a sure thing

But IF one had the reader problem solved I could see where you could
vacuum seal many copies of firmware and opening them one a year or ten
years or something. You could cross-compare the already opened cans with
the last opened one to run some sort of decision algorithm. Might be
better than a single 1000 year data storage.

 

[Rod Speed]

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years. One of the
problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems for this period.
What methods do you think are suitable?

Top priority is it must work about 1000 years. Price is not a big issue,
if necessary.

I thought about this:

Sorry to be a spoiler, but you sound like you are off your
meds. Or you are writing a SF book.
Any hardware would be obsolete in 10 years time. Think back
1000 years. Imagine making a self repairing shed to keep your
horse-driven cart nice and ready-to go. Assuming the shed had not been
bombed, set on fire, flooded, hit by lightning, a meteor, vandalized,
whatever, how useful would that cart be today ?

Some of the stuff we have that is from 1000 or more years ago
is still interesting, if not that useful.

 

[Bernhard Kuemel]

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years.

For whom?

Did you read footnote [3]. I want to be one of the frozen, scanned and
uploaded humans.

Who will care about *our* data in 1000 years?

Ötzi is about 5000 years old. It would be very amazing for a lot of
people to revive him. I hope the same will be true for me in 200 to 1000
years.

What do we know that they won't?

The past.

If you envision a collapse of civilization in the mean time, what is
the nature of the disruption that your facility must survive?
Nuclear war? Asteroid?

Nuclear war, economic/ecologic collapse. If an asteroid impact obscures
the sun too much for too long that might deplete my power/cooling
reserves and destroy my body/mind.

If civilization is in dire straights, why would they not cannibalize
the facility for whatever technology could be scavenged?

The idea is to make it in a remote location of an otherwise rather
stable country, e.g. in an Australian desert. The cryostorage could be
disguised as tomb and the black solar energy collecting walls could be
disguised as tombstones. A plaque/inscription could say they died of a
very deadly and contagious disease. Bacillus antracis can survive for
decades in the ground as dehydrated spores, so mentioning that might
deter some people. OTOH it might attract others, who want to use it as
weapon. Apart from stable walls I also think about active and passive
intruder defense systems such as high voltage discharges, high energy
microwaves, crushing, stabbing, shooting, nitrogen asphyxiation. We
could let some voluntarily donated human bodies and the killed intruders
rot after the first door, outside the first trap, where there is another
inscription telling the truth about the facility and its dangers.

If you want to protect the facility from the early sufferers of the
collapse, why do want to help their expected progeny, but not *them*?

I can hardly help the sufferers while I'm in cryo stasis. Well, I could
leave the facility open for everybody to use and take what they want,
but then I'd most likely die.

If the early sufferers are left to their decline, how do you know
there will *be* future progeny to help?

I trust that mankind will survive. I don't know. There is no knowledge.

Will the character of those who survived the attrition (or
elimination) of all others be better than those you tried to exclude
from the facility earlier?

I don't understand your question. What do you mean by attrition? Can you
rephrase your question more clearly?

Uncle Al: Conservation [including knowledge as a resource?] means
somebody else in the future deserves to consume it; and not them,
either.

If it is to be found by ET, they may be unimpressed. They know how to
travel between stars. Nothing in our 1000 year-old archive will help
them repair their warp drive.

Humans are impressed by the moon, mars and roman excavations, which can
not repair their vehicles. I think finding ETs is far more exciting than
watching Star Trek. ETs may be different, but I don't expect to be found
and uploaded by ETs.

Bernhard

 

[Bernhard Kuemel]

The idea is to make it in a remote location of an otherwise rather
stable country, e.g. in an Australian desert. The cryostorage could be
disguised as tomb and the black solar energy collecting walls could be
disguised as tombstones.

The cryostore could be set in a mountain with the entrance and the black
solar energy collecting walls being on a steep flank of the mountain.
That would require a lot of effort and equipment to break in and steal
stuff.

 

[Rod Speed]

Wally W. wrote

Bernhard Kuemel wrote

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years.

For whom?

Did you read footnote [3]. I want to be one of
the frozen, scanned and uploaded humans.

Who will care about *our* data in 1000 years?

Ötzi is about 5000 years old. It would be very
amazing for a lot of people to revive him.

Sure, but its not very likely to be possible.

I hope the same will be true for me in 200 to 1000 years.

I doubt it with 200, or even 1000.

They are more likely to do it with someone who has
managed a lot more than you have, like Einstein etc.

The past.

That's pretty well documented now. No need to try the
very difficult to achieve uploading of someone's brain etc.

Nuclear war, economic/ecologic collapse. If an asteroid impact
obscures the sun too much for too long that might deplete my
power/cooling reserves and destroy my body/mind.

But if it gets too bad, there may not be anyone too interested
in uploading what is between your ears, they may well be a bit
busy ensuring their own survival instead.

I doubt it.

The idea is to make it in a remote location of an otherwise rather
stable country, e.g. in an Australian desert. The cryostorage could
be disguised as tomb and the black solar energy collecting walls
could be disguised as tombstones.

Its very likely to be vandalised if you try that route.

A plaque/inscription could say they died
of a very deadly and contagious disease.

No one would buy that line with a place like Australia
because they know you would not be allowed to have
a tomb done like that there if it really was true.

The remains would have been cremated in a medical
facility instead.

Bacillus antracis can survive for decades in the ground as dehydrated
spores, so mentioning that might deter some people.

I doubt it except maybe those so stupid that they don't realise
that it wouldn't happen like that. There are certainly plenty of
those, but there are plenty more that wouldn't buy that claim.

OTOH it might attract others, who want to use it as weapon.

I don't believe that would happen.
Because they would realise it's a lie.

Apart from stable walls I also think about active and passive intruder
defense systems such as high voltage discharges, high energy
microwaves, crushing, stabbing, shooting, nitrogen asphyxiation.

That's completely illegal in Australia and everywhere
else that's even just barely politically stable too.

We could let some voluntarily donated human bodies
and the killed intruders rot after the first door,

That's completely illegal in Australia and everywhere
else that's even just barely politically stable too.

outside the first trap, where there is another inscription
telling the truth about the facility and its dangers.

If anyone did break in and find the corpses, you can be
sure that the word would get out very quickly indeed
and that the authoritys would be round to work out
who had flouted the law so comprehensively and
they would try to work out who had done that and
would eventually dismantle the entire affair and
just dump your body into a public grave once no
one claimed your corpse.

They would certainly realise that your claim
about the unspeakable disease was a lie and
would be able to check if it was someone who
had managed to do what you claimed etc.

I can hardly help the sufferers while I'm in cryo stasis.
Well, I could leave the facility open for everybody to
use and take what they want, but then I'd most likely die.

I trust that mankind will survive.

And the worst result if it doesn't is no worse than
not doing anything except your heirs didn't get
to spend what you wasted on that facility.

I don't know. There is no knowledge.

There is plenty of knowledge that mankind has never even
come close to not surviving over countless millennia now.

Sure, we have certainly invented some stuff since then
which might be a problem, but even nukes wouldn't
result in no mankind at all, even if we are actually
stupid enough to fire them all at each other.

I don't understand your question. What do you mean by
attrition? Can you rephrase your question more clearly?

Uncle Al: Conservation [including knowledge as a resource?]
means somebody else in the future deserves to consume it;
and not them, either.
If it is to be found by ET, they may be unimpressed. They
know how to travel between stars. Nothing in our 1000
year-old archive will help them repair their warp drive.

Humans are impressed by the moon, mars and roman excavations,
which can not repair their vehicles. I think finding ETs is far more
exciting than watching Star Trek. ETs may be different, but I don't
expect to be found and uploaded by ETs.

I don't expect any ETs to show up myself. They've had
plenty of time to do that and presumably it isnt possible.

Tho I spose some red indians might have run the same line
at one time too.

 

[Rod Speed]

The cryostore could be set in a mountain

There aren't any mountains in the Australian desert.

with the entrance and the black solar energy collecting
walls being on a steep flank of the mountain.

There are some cliff faces, but the shit will hit the fan very
spectacularly indeed if you start hacking holes in those for
your cryo facility.

That would require a lot of effort and
equipment to break in and steal stuff.

And a hell of a lot of effort to construct
and to deal with the legal ramifications
when someone notices you constructing it.

It will be off to jail for you.

You cant even do that even if you own the cliff face.

 

[pot]

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years. One of the
problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems for this period.
What methods do you think are suitable?

Top priority is it must work about 1000 years. Price is not a big issue,
if necessary.

I thought about this:

Sorry to be a spoiler, but you sound like you are off your
meds. Or you are writing a SF book.
Any hardware would be obsolete in 10 years time. Think back
1000 years. Imagine making a self repairing shed to keep your
horse-driven cart nice and ready-to go. Assuming the shed had not been
bombed, set on fire, flooded, hit by lightning, a meteor, vandalized,
whatever, how useful would that cart be today ?

Some of the stuff we have that is from 1000 or more years ago
is still interesting, if not that useful.

Yes, typically in museums. Apart from some buildings, but a building is
not a tool.

 

[Rod Speed]

On Fri, 03 May 2013 10:36:35 +0200, Bernhard Kuemel

Hi!

I'm planning a robotic facility [3] that needs to maintain hardware
(exchange defective parts) autonomously for up to 1000 years. One of the
problems is to maintain firmware and operating systems for this period.
What methods do you think are suitable?

Top priority is it must work about 1000 years. Price is not a big issue,
if necessary.

I thought about this:

Sorry to be a spoiler, but you sound like you are off your
meds. Or you are writing a SF book.
Any hardware would be obsolete in 10 years time. Think back
1000 years. Imagine making a self repairing shed to keep your
horse-driven cart nice and ready-to go. Assuming the shed had not been
bombed, set on fire, flooded, hit by lightning, a meteor, vandalized,
whatever, how useful would that cart be today ?

Some of the stuff we have that is from 1000 or more years ago
is still interesting, if not that useful.

Yes, typically in museums. Apart from some buildings, but a building is
not a tool.

Corse it's a tool, for living.