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0/1-10V dimming problem

Discussion in 'General Electronics Discussion' started by superhp, Apr 11, 2015.

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  1. superhp

    superhp

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    Apr 11, 2015
    Hi. I have Siemens 5TC8424 potentiometer/switch (http://www.elektroland24.de/out/media/5TC8424_Bedienungsanl.-5TC8424.pdf), 0-10V transformer/driver (https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B9l3lhqYEi8vREctSmtiajZHU1E/view?usp=sharing) and 36V 36W 900mAh LED panel. The problem is that I cant control the driver (and LED is not lightning) with that potentiometer.
    I connect all parts as shown in Siemens connection example. So the potentiometer has input of L and outputs it to the driver and also outputs 1-10v signal to the driver. Driver additionally has input of N. I have measured that the driver correctly gets 220V. However, 0-10v (control) doesn't provide any voltage. Is that normal? Driver outputs 3-4V only while it should output 36V .
    I have told it to the supplier of the driver and led and they responded to me that the potentiometer should output 10V on 0-10v wires (http://1drv.ms/1DTQPI6). But they have connected both L and N to their potentiometer's input. Siemens potentiometer cant accept N as I know.
    So, are here several different 0-10v technologies like active and passive? Or is my Siemens potentiometer broken and actually should output 0-10v?
     
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2015
  2. Colin Mitchell

    Colin Mitchell

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    Aug 31, 2014
    Get a set of cells for 8v. Connect 470R to each lead and take the positive to the blue terminal and negative to the white terminal.
     
  3. superhp

    superhp

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    Apr 11, 2015
    Thank you! I am not the electrician at all so I don't understand the details. But I understood that you suggest to do the work around to make the control wires "active"? Or this trick is just for testing is the driver is working/being controlled at all?

    I still don't understand the whole picture... The manufacturer (in China) of the driver uses such scheme:
    [​IMG]

    where potentiometer/dimmer is fully connected to AC (both L and N). Here (above) it is possible to measure 1-10V signal with voltmeter.
    However, Siemens (in Germany) is using different scheme (I have edited the picture above):

    [​IMG]

    Here it is not possible (or maybe I don't know how) to measure 1-10V signal with voltmeter. Is that normal behavior? Thus, I think, the driver from China is not being controlled by Siemens potentiometer.

    So, both Siemens and China manufacturer are using 1-10V dimming technology but they work differently... I must have misunderstood something. Do you know what is wrong here?
     
  4. Colin Mitchell

    Colin Mitchell

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    Aug 31, 2014
    Use the Chinese version.
    I don't like the German version.
     
  5. superhp

    superhp

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    Apr 11, 2015
    The problem is that I am using Siemens (German) potentiometer (and other switches as well) so I have to use its wiring schema. As I understand, schema on the last page of http://www.meanwell.com/search/LPF-40D/LPF-40D-spec.pdf is similar to "German" schema, right? So maybe it would be easier to change the driver?
    But I still don't understand how the 0-10v signal is going in German schema if only Live is in input of the potentiometer (?).
     
  6. Colin Mitchell

    Colin Mitchell

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    Aug 31, 2014
    Just do as I say with the 8v - 9v battery
     
  7. Merlin3189

    Merlin3189

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    Aug 4, 2011
    I don't see any difference between the Chinese (driver) and German (controller) systems. The Siemens controller simply has the series On/Off switch included, whereas the Chinese driver circuit does not show an On/Off switch. The driver says it can be controlled by 0-10V and the controller says it supplies 0-10V, so there should be no problem.

    If the drivers are powered and the controller is not connected to the drivers, they should light the LEDs 100%. Do they?
    If the controller is powered and not connected to the drivers, it should supply 0-10V. Does it?

    Colin's suggestion to bypass the controller's On/Off switch and try controlling with batteries seems another sensible test.
     
  8. superhp

    superhp

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    Apr 11, 2015
    Thanks for the answer. I have answered above.
     
  9. Merlin3189

    Merlin3189

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    Aug 4, 2011
    You comment in the original post that
    and, as you note, it is not clear which standards this equipment complies with. In "E1.3, 0 to 10 V Analog Control Specification." the control signal wires should not be connected to the AC mains. The only circuit I have found for the 5TC8424 is certainly incomplete and may be purely symbolic, but it shows it as a simple switch and variable resistor - in which case it would not output any DC voltage! If it does indeed output a 10V signal, then it must get power from somewhere and the drivers are not generally required to provide power, so I think the N connection for the Siemens controller might be derived via the load circuit (the driver). To obtain a 10V output, you would then need to connect a LED driver module as shown in the Siemens diagram.

    In this document http://tsp.plasa.org/tsp/documents/docs/Guide_E1-3.pdf section 6 has a few comments on testing and one suggests that you may need to connect a load of 10 - 100k to the output (0-10V output) when measuring the voltage. Colin's suggestion of using batteries is also mentioned.

    I haven't been able to track down any documentation on the CM-40VAHD900C. I wonder if you have any other info? (I did wonder if there are any other markings under that label which is peeling off - perhaps you thought the same!)

    I should add that I have no personal experience of these devices and my comments are based simply on what I have gleaned from your documents, others I've found and on basic electrics.
     
  10. superhp

    superhp

    5
    0
    Apr 11, 2015
    I have "solved" the problem by buying MeanWell LPF-40D-48 power supply which supports "passive" or resistance dimming. The problem was that Chinese power supply needed a real 0-10v while Siemens is just a simple potentiometer which doesn't provide it. It just change the resistance. BTW, MeanWell supports three types of dimming.
    I still didn't test Chinese driver with the battery but I will try it one day and I believe it will work then :)
    Thank you!
     
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