Top posting

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Chris Carlen, Jun 9, 2006.

  1. Chris Carlen

    Chris Carlen Guest

    Hi:


    I think I will just give up and start responding to emails by top
    posting like everyone else, despite the fact that on USENET it is
    tradition to bottom post.

    When I bottom post on emails (in the "corporate" world) I get told by
    people that they can't understand my formatting.

    Oh, and not to mention that my standard ASCII email program trips up
    their stupid Outlook!


    Ugh!


    P.S. What is the view on interleaved posting? Ie, responding per
    sentence/paragraph in thick discussions?


    --
    Good day!

    ________________________________________
    Christopher R. Carlen
    Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
    Sandia National Laboratories CA USA

    NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
    "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
    Chris Carlen, Jun 9, 2006
    #1
  2. Chris Carlen

    Pooh Bear Guest

    Chris Carlen wrote:

    > Hi:
    >
    > I think I will just give up and start responding to emails by top
    > posting like everyone else


    Nothing really wrong with doing that for emails where both parties are familiar
    with the context.

    > despite the fact that on USENET it is tradition to bottom post.


    For many a good reason.

    Even better is interspersed posting where each reply is posted underneath the
    relevant item.

    > When I bottom post on emails (in the "corporate" world) I get told by
    > people that they can't understand my formatting.


    I can see that.

    > Oh, and not to mention that my standard ASCII email program trips up
    > their stupid Outlook!


    You must be dealing with MBAs. They have limited intellelect.

    Graham
    Pooh Bear, Jun 9, 2006
    #2
  3. Chris Carlen

    Genome Guest

    "Chris Carlen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi:
    >
    >
    > I think I will just give up and start responding to emails by top posting
    > like everyone else, despite the fact that on USENET it is tradition to
    > bottom post.
    >
    > When I bottom post on emails (in the "corporate" world) I get told by
    > people that they can't understand my formatting.
    >
    > --
    > Good day!
    >


    NO!!!!!!!

    The thing they cannot cope with is that when formatted the 'correct way' the
    message makes sense.

    Even worse it serves to highlight any 'mistakes' they 'may' have made.

    Even even worse they have to read through all their mistakes before they get
    to your explanation and clarification of the last mistake they sent.

    E-mails in the corporate world are not for transmission of clear
    information. It takes lawyers and lots of words, paper and money to do that
    sort of thing.

    E-mails in the corporate world are, at the most, a way of saying 'Hi there,
    thanks for networking with me, I'll network with you some more later'.

    DNA
    Genome, Jun 9, 2006
    #3
  4. Chris Carlen

    mc Guest

    Oh, dear. Does Sandia Labs not have fullscreen mailreaders yet?

    On Usenet "tradition" was established very early (pre-1975 in many cases)
    and is not optimal for today.


    "Chris Carlen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi:
    >
    >
    > I think I will just give up and start responding to emails by top posting
    > like everyone else, despite the fact that on USENET it is tradition to
    > bottom post.
    >
    > When I bottom post on emails (in the "corporate" world) I get told by
    > people that they can't understand my formatting.
    >
    > Oh, and not to mention that my standard ASCII email program trips up their
    > stupid Outlook!
    >
    >
    > Ugh!
    >
    >
    > P.S. What is the view on interleaved posting? Ie, responding per
    > sentence/paragraph in thick discussions?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Good day!
    >
    > ________________________________________
    > Christopher R. Carlen
    > Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
    > Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
    >
    > NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
    > "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
    mc, Jun 9, 2006
    #4
  5. Chris Carlen

    Gary Peek Guest

    Chris Carlen wrote:
    > I think I will just give up and start responding to emails by top
    > posting like everyone else, despite the fact that on USENET it is
    > tradition to bottom post.


    Please don't. You might be responding to me some day. :)

    > When I bottom post on emails (in the "corporate" world) I get told by
    > people that they can't understand my formatting.


    There are a lot of stupid people out there.

    > P.S. What is the view on interleaved posting? Ie, responding per
    > sentence/paragraph in thick discussions?


    I can't imagine doing it any other way. As long as you leave or put the
    greater than signs to the left of their stuff it is easy to read.


    If you are involving more than 2 people you can put the initials of
    the person at the top of the sentance opr paragraph.
    Gary Peek, Jun 9, 2006
    #5
  6. Chris Carlen

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 17:05:49 -0700, Chris Carlen
    <> wrote:

    >Hi:
    >
    >
    >I think I will just give up and start responding to emails by top
    >posting like everyone else, despite the fact that on USENET it is
    >tradition to bottom post.
    >
    >When I bottom post on emails (in the "corporate" world) I get told by
    >people that they can't understand my formatting.
    >
    >Oh, and not to mention that my standard ASCII email program trips up
    >their stupid Outlook!
    >
    >
    >Ugh!


    Agreed! Outlook sucks!

    >
    >
    >P.S. What is the view on interleaved posting? Ie, responding per
    >sentence/paragraph in thick discussions?


    If you try to interleave responses in an Outlook E-mail you get weird
    separation bars and strange behavior when you try any editing.

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
    Jim Thompson, Jun 9, 2006
    #6
  7. Chris Carlen

    Genome Guest

    "Jim Thompson" <> wrote in
    message news:...
    > On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 17:05:49 -0700, Chris Carlen
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > Agreed! Outlook sucks!
    >
    > If you try to interleave responses in an Outlook E-mail you get weird
    > separation bars and strange behavior when you try any editing.
    >
    > ...Jim Thompson


    Click Format, Click Text..... Sometimes you might have to Click HTML again
    and then back to Text.

    DNA
    Genome, Jun 9, 2006
    #7
  8. Chris Carlen

    Didi Guest

    > I think I will just give up and start responding to emails by top
    > posting like everyone else, despite the fact that on USENET it is
    > tradition to bottom post.


    I have dealt with the issue by adopting a mixture of both.
    I insert my quotes the normal way when I want to indicate
    which sentence I am replying to and I include the entire message
    at the bottom like in todays top-posting. I began doing that some
    time after the max. 14400 capable phone line here is not the
    only option (cable etc. is now everywhere), I must admit.
    top-bottom posting combines the advantages of the
    two approaches - provides the complete context for someone
    seeing one message only, and makes the reply comprehensible.
    It takes a negligible amount of bandwidth more if you are not
    on a very slow phone line. The worst about it is that archiving
    such mesages (if everybody has been doing the top-bottom posting)
    will take much more space, but disk space is not so scarce
    nowadays...
    I am replying in such detail because I am not quite
    sure myself about my adopted method, I'd be curious to get
    some thoughs on that.

    Dimiter

    ------------------------------------------------------
    Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments

    http://www.tgi-sci.com
    ------------------------------------------------------

    Chris Carlen wrote:
    > Hi:
    >
    >
    > I think I will just give up and start responding to emails by top
    > posting like everyone else, despite the fact that on USENET it is
    > tradition to bottom post.
    >
    > When I bottom post on emails (in the "corporate" world) I get told by
    > people that they can't understand my formatting.
    >
    > Oh, and not to mention that my standard ASCII email program trips up
    > their stupid Outlook!
    >
    >
    > Ugh!
    >
    >
    > P.S. What is the view on interleaved posting? Ie, responding per
    > sentence/paragraph in thick discussions?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Good day!
    >
    > ________________________________________
    > Christopher R. Carlen
    > Principal Laser&Electronics Technologist
    > Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
    >
    > NOTE, delete texts: "RemoveThis" and
    > "BOGUS" from email address to reply.
    Didi, Jun 9, 2006
    #8
  9. Chris Carlen

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 01:33:51 GMT, "Genome" <>
    wrote:

    >
    >"Jim Thompson" <> wrote in
    >message news:...
    >> On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 17:05:49 -0700, Chris Carlen
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> Agreed! Outlook sucks!
    >>
    >> If you try to interleave responses in an Outlook E-mail you get weird
    >> separation bars and strange behavior when you try any editing.
    >>
    >> ...Jim Thompson

    >
    >Click Format, Click Text..... Sometimes you might have to Click HTML again
    >and then back to Text.
    >
    >DNA
    >


    I'm not seeing that function in Eudora.

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
    Jim Thompson, Jun 9, 2006
    #9
  10. Chris Carlen

    Pooh Bear Guest

    Jim Thompson wrote:

    > On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 17:05:49 -0700, Chris Carlen
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >P.S. What is the view on interleaved posting?


    It's best practice.

    > > Ie, responding per >sentence/paragraph in thick discussions?

    >
    > If you try to interleave responses in an Outlook E-mail you get weird
    > separation bars and strange behavior when you try any editing.


    So much better is available ! I use Netscape 4.8 for heaven's sake since it's
    hard to beat. Why change ? I've seen / tried others and not been much impressed.

    Graham
    Pooh Bear, Jun 9, 2006
    #10
  11. Chris Carlen

    Pooh Bear Guest

    Genome wrote

    > Click Format, Click Text..... Sometimes you might have to Click HTML again
    > and then back to Text.


    That already tells me enought to know I shouldn't use it !

    Graham
    Pooh Bear, Jun 9, 2006
    #11
  12. Chris Carlen

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 02:47:45 +0100, Pooh Bear
    <> wrote:

    >
    >
    >Jim Thompson wrote:
    >
    >> On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 17:05:49 -0700, Chris Carlen
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >P.S. What is the view on interleaved posting?

    >
    >It's best practice.
    >
    >> > Ie, responding per >sentence/paragraph in thick discussions?

    >>
    >> If you try to interleave responses in an Outlook E-mail you get weird
    >> separation bars and strange behavior when you try any editing.

    >
    >So much better is available ! I use Netscape 4.8 for heaven's sake since it's
    >hard to beat. Why change ? I've seen / tried others and not been much impressed.
    >
    >Graham


    I use Eudora Pro v3.0.5. How's that for aged software ?;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
    Jim Thompson, Jun 9, 2006
    #12
  13. Chris Carlen

    mc Guest

    "Didi" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > I have dealt with the issue by adopting a mixture of both.

    ....
    > I am replying in such detail because I am not quite
    > sure myself about my adopted method, I'd be curious to get
    > some thoughs on that.


    I like it. I, too, alternate between top, bottom, and interleaved posting
    as the situation seems to require.

    I am not going to cater for people who are still running 1978 UNIX on 1975
    DECwriters instead of computers with full-screen threaded news reading. (Or
    who pretend they are.) The fact is, some replies are best interleaved; I
    view bottom posting (which I'm doing right now) as a special case of
    interleaving; but if the reply is short and snappy and doesn't require much
    context, why not give it right at the top?

    The one argument I won't buy is, "It's Tradition." This is high technology,
    folks, not Ye Olde Curiosity Shoppe! We should always be ready to adapt our
    techniques to the changing situation.

    I find it funny that, at age 48, I have to spend so much time telling people
    20 years younger than me to move with the times. Among computerniks there
    is tremendous nostalgia for 1975-1985, the period when geeks were viewed as
    superhuman.
    mc, Jun 9, 2006
    #13
  14. Chris Carlen

    Pooh Bear Guest

    Jim Thompson wrote:

    > On Fri, 09 Jun 2006 02:47:45 +0100, Pooh Bear
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >Jim Thompson wrote:
    > >
    > >> On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 17:05:49 -0700, Chris Carlen
    > >> <> wrote:
    > >>
    > >> >P.S. What is the view on interleaved posting?

    > >
    > >It's best practice.
    > >
    > >> > Ie, responding per >sentence/paragraph in thick discussions?
    > >>
    > >> If you try to interleave responses in an Outlook E-mail you get weird
    > >> separation bars and strange behavior when you try any editing.

    > >
    > >So much better is available ! I use Netscape 4.8 for heaven's sake since it's
    > >hard to beat. Why change ? I've seen / tried others and not been much impressed.
    > >
    > >Graham

    >
    > I use Eudora Pro v3.0.5. How's that for aged software ?;-)


    Hard to comment since I've only ever heard of it by repute.

    I recall using Mosaic when I first trawled the net and getting excited over the beta
    releases of Netscape 2 ! Does anyone recall when that was ? I'm thinking around
    1995-6.

    Graham
    Pooh Bear, Jun 9, 2006
    #14
  15. Chris Carlen

    Roy L. Fuchs Guest

    On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 17:05:49 -0700, Chris Carlen
    <> Gave us:

    >I think I will just give up



    **** you, you Usenet RETARD!
    Roy L. Fuchs, Jun 9, 2006
    #15
  16. Chris Carlen

    Didi Guest

    Thanks for the reply, I hoped I was not alone on that :).

    > The one argument I won't buy is, "It's Tradition."


    Same here, this is about communication, not about
    practicing religion. Nothing against those who practice
    anything as long as they don't demand that I join,
    that is.

    > I find it funny that, at age 48, I have to spend so much time telling people
    > 20 years younger than me to move with the times.


    Well I would expect a youth like yoursef to be progressive (I am
    two years older but I guess I don't live up to the expectation
    of being a traditionalist, either...). :) :)

    Cheers,

    Dimiter

    ------------------------------------------------------
    Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments

    http://www.tgi-sci.com
    ------------------------------------------------------

    mc wrote:
    > "Didi" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >
    > > I have dealt with the issue by adopting a mixture of both.

    > ...
    > > I am replying in such detail because I am not quite
    > > sure myself about my adopted method, I'd be curious to get
    > > some thoughs on that.

    >
    > I like it. I, too, alternate between top, bottom, and interleaved posting
    > as the situation seems to require.
    >
    > I am not going to cater for people who are still running 1978 UNIX on 1975
    > DECwriters instead of computers with full-screen threaded news reading. (Or
    > who pretend they are.) The fact is, some replies are best interleaved; I
    > view bottom posting (which I'm doing right now) as a special case of
    > interleaving; but if the reply is short and snappy and doesn't require much
    > context, why not give it right at the top?
    >
    > The one argument I won't buy is, "It's Tradition." This is high technology,
    > folks, not Ye Olde Curiosity Shoppe! We should always be ready to adapt our
    > techniques to the changing situation.
    >
    > I find it funny that, at age 48, I have to spend so much time telling people
    > 20 years younger than me to move with the times. Among computerniks there
    > is tremendous nostalgia for 1975-1985, the period when geeks were viewed as
    > superhuman.
    Didi, Jun 9, 2006
    #16
  17. Chris Carlen

    Brian Guest

    "Roy L. Fuchs" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 17:05:49 -0700, Chris Carlen
    > <> Gave us:
    >
    >>I think I will just give up

    >
    >
    > **** you, you Usenet RETARD!


    Roy L. Fuchs, Professional Pinhead
    Brian, Jun 9, 2006
    #17
  18. Chris Carlen

    Ian Bell Guest

    Chris Carlen wrote:

    > Hi:
    >
    >
    > I think I will just give up and start responding to emails by top
    > posting like everyone else, despite the fact that on USENET it is
    > tradition to bottom post.
    >


    Just ignore them and do the right thing. Remember to trim their garbage and
    intersperse your replies so they can see what you are doing.

    Ian
    Ian Bell, Jun 9, 2006
    #18
  19. Chris Carlen

    Tim Williams Guest

    "Chris Carlen" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I think I will just give up and start responding to emails by top posting
    > like everyone else, despite the fact that on USENET it is tradition to
    > bottom post.


    I email exactly like I reply everywhere else. If my comments are general or
    the parent message has a uniform subject, there's no point in selecting
    specific text nor highlighting it by replying underneath.

    (For that matter, I could top post here, but since you have convienient
    short paragraphs and I'm going to get kind of long, I'm putting it down
    here.)

    If my response is detailed and replying to specific statements, I always
    reply interleaved. I do not ever bottom post. You may say I am bottom
    posting right now, and that is true in a manner of speaking, but I see this
    as interleaved, with the only subtle difference being I have no further
    quoted text to reply to below.

    Bottom posting is the Scum of the Earth. One or two lines below several
    _pages_ of quoted text, that isn't even /trimmed/, is the lowest an Human
    Being can sink to. If you don't have the courtesy to trim a specific couple
    sentences or paragraph when bottom posting, don't reply at all!

    Tim

    --
    Deep Fryer: a very philosophical monk.
    Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms
    Tim Williams, Jun 9, 2006
    #19
  20. I'm one of the old-timers at age 57, but I use tradition (and old tools)
    only when there is a clear benefit. It is wise to be open to new ideas. I
    am top posting here to show how it can be appropriate. In this case, I can
    state my premise that it can be OK, illustrated by the example as follows:

    "Didi" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Thanks for the reply, I hoped I was not alone on that :).
    >
    >> The one argument I won't buy is, "It's Tradition."

    >
    > Same here, this is about communication, not about
    > practicing religion. Nothing against those who practice
    > anything as long as they don't demand that I join,
    > that is.
    >
    >> I find it funny that, at age 48, I have to spend so much time telling
    >> people
    >> 20 years younger than me to move with the times.

    >
    > Well I would expect a youth like yoursef to be progressive (I am
    > two years older but I guess I don't live up to the expectation
    > of being a traditionalist, either...). :) :)
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Dimiter
    >
    > ------------------------------------------------------
    > Dimiter Popoff Transgalactic Instruments
    >
    > http://www.tgi-sci.com
    > ------------------------------------------------------
    >
    > mc wrote:
    >> "Didi" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>
    >> > I have dealt with the issue by adopting a mixture of both.

    >> ...
    >> > I am replying in such detail because I am not quite
    >> > sure myself about my adopted method, I'd be curious to get
    >> > some thoughs on that.

    >>
    >> I like it. I, too, alternate between top, bottom, and interleaved
    >> posting
    >> as the situation seems to require.
    >>
    >> I am not going to cater for people who are still running 1978 UNIX on
    >> 1975
    >> DECwriters instead of computers with full-screen threaded news reading.
    >> (Or
    >> who pretend they are.) The fact is, some replies are best interleaved;
    >> I
    >> view bottom posting (which I'm doing right now) as a special case of
    >> interleaving; but if the reply is short and snappy and doesn't require
    >> much
    >> context, why not give it right at the top?
    >>
    >> The one argument I won't buy is, "It's Tradition." This is high
    >> technology,
    >> folks, not Ye Olde Curiosity Shoppe! We should always be ready to adapt
    >> our
    >> techniques to the changing situation.
    >>
    >> I find it funny that, at age 48, I have to spend so much time telling
    >> people
    >> 20 years younger than me to move with the times. Among computerniks
    >> there
    >> is tremendous nostalgia for 1975-1985, the period when geeks were viewed
    >> as
    >> superhuman.

    >
    Paul E. Schoen, Jun 9, 2006
    #20

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