Suggest for placement of ADT/Ademco wireless window sensors

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by canyonblue@gmail.com, Oct 14, 2006.

  1. Guest

    I am having an ADT system installed (ADT direct, not a reseller) and
    will be using their rebranded Ademco wireless window sensors on 18
    windows on my main level. The windows are new, warrantied, and white
    vinyl which is why I am going wireless.

    The problem is related to my window blinds. My two inch blinds (which I
    always leave in the full down position but swivel open and close daily)
    leave less than a 1/2 inch between the back of the blinds when open and
    the window surface. This appears to be less than the depth of the
    sensor if we place it on the vertical side of the lower window (they
    are single hung windows that have the bottom window slide up and down).
    This would push the blinds out a slight bit (they would be touching the
    sensor) and that seems unacceptable. The same issue exists if I mount
    the sensor to the bottom sill as the blinds would rest on the sensor
    which would look bad and perhaps cause the same issue. I can't mount
    the sensors horizontally on the top corners of the bottom window (with
    the magnet in the track) because the latches for the window to rotate
    into the house are located there...

    The only place left I can think of? DEAD CENTER of the horizontal top
    of the bottom window with the magnet on the glass surface of the upper
    non-moving window. Do you think this will be horribly ugly? The sensor
    matches the color of the white vinyl windows and the blinds should help
    concel the boxes but I am really concerned about the look of the whole
    deal.

    Any suggestions on other mounting options.
     
    , Oct 14, 2006
    #1
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  2. Guest


    > Let the alarm company provide the solution, that's what they're paid
    > for.
    >
    > I feel sorry for the installer coming to your place == you're gonna
    > second guess him every step of the way and follow him around like a
    > puppy dog, aren't ya?


    wow, just wow.

    not quite the answer i was expecting. because i *value* my new home,
    and my family i have done quite a bit of research, yes, including
    getting quotes and professional opinions from several alarm companies,
    including major nationals as well as independent companies. because of
    the nature of my windows a wireless install is called for, yet
    significant hurdles remain and all the alarms companies i spoke with
    have been less than clear how their wireless soultions will be mounted
    to attempt to preserve the look of the window since i have a particular
    kind of blind. since i am concerned, and rightfully so based on posts
    in this very forum, that some installers will "lick 'em and stick 'em"
    when they show to my house i would like to be prepared with reasonable
    suggests from experienced folks if their suggestions aren't superior. I
    am afterall the home owner and customer.

    will i follow them around? no. will i be open to their professional
    opinions and suggests... yes. will i be involved and understand the
    logic of every details of my extensive security system, ie. placement,
    operations, aestitics etc. ... you bet!

    NOW IF ANYONE IS WILLING TO HELP ME i have a photo of what all the
    windows in general look like (before the blinds were placed.)

    http://static.flickr.com/108/269087792_eb5194c6c8_o.jpg
     
    , Oct 14, 2006
    #2
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  3. Doug Guest

    I would use a smaller sensor, either of the following may work if you are
    able to use a different brand system, these particular products are made by
    Secure wireless for DSC, other brands may also have have wireless sensors
    available which may work for you.

    http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezStore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=1474

    http://www.homesecuritystore.com/ezStore123/DTProductZoom.asp?productID=1430

    The questions you are asking should have been asked before making the
    decision on the company/products to use, why on earth would you have a
    company install a system for you if they are unable to provide an acceptable
    solution, unless the only question asked was "how much".

    Whatever location you decide upon should only be considered tentative, since
    any wireless product should be tested for acceptable signal strength in its
    intended location before permanently installing it and it may not be
    possible to mount it in the desired location.

    BTW using capitals is considered shouting on usenet.



    Doug

    --

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    >
    > NOW IF ANYONE IS WILLING TO HELP ME i have a photo of what all the
    > windows in general look like (before the blinds were placed.)
    >
    > http://static.flickr.com/108/269087792_eb5194c6c8_o.jpg
    >
     
    Doug, Oct 14, 2006
    #3
  4. >> I feel sorry for the installer coming to your place == you're gonna
    >> second guess him every step of the way and follow him around like a
    >> puppy dog, aren't ya?

    >
    > wow, just wow.
    >
    > not quite the answer i was expecting.


    Don't let that guy bother you, friend. Graham is the village idiot of this newsgroup.

    There are 1/4" x 1/4" self-stick magnetic window contacts which your installer may want to try. One of the most popular is called a
    1035. It's made by GE Security (formerly Sentrol). Since you're having the system professionally installed, ask the salesman if he
    will try those or something similar. If they flat refuse, you can order them online and swap them with the ones the alarm company
    puts in. They're not expensive.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    4883 Fallcrest Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34233
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>
     
    Robert L Bass, Oct 14, 2006
    #4
  5. Petem Guest

    "Robert L Bass" <> a écrit dans le message de news:
    ...
    >>> I feel sorry for the installer coming to your place == you're gonna
    >>> second guess him every step of the way and follow him around like a
    >>> puppy dog, aren't ya?

    >>
    >> wow, just wow.
    >>
    >> not quite the answer i was expecting.

    >
    > Don't let that guy bother you, friend. Graham is the village idiot of
    > this newsgroup.
    >
    > There are 1/4" x 1/4" self-stick magnetic window contacts which your
    > installer may want to try. One of the most popular is called a 1035.
    > It's made by GE Security (formerly Sentrol). Since you're having the
    > system professionally installed, ask the salesman if he will try those or
    > something similar. If they flat refuse, you can order them online and
    > swap them with the ones the alarm company puts in. They're not expensive.
    >
    >


    you forgot to tell the OP that if he do switch the contact he will loose any
    right to sue the Alarm company if by any chance one of the contact fail to
    create an alarm,since they are provided by him....
     
    Petem, Oct 14, 2006
    #5
  6. Frank Olson Guest

    Petem wrote:

    > you forgot to tell the OP that if he do switch the contact he will loose any
    > right to sue the Alarm company if by any chance one of the contact fail to
    > create an alarm,since they are provided by him....


    It could also void the warranty or his maintenance agreement. Of
    course, Bass could care less about "contracts".
     
    Frank Olson, Oct 14, 2006
    #6
  7. Why are you asking other industry members to do ADT's job? You signed
    with them so let them handle the issues. If they can't do it the way
    you want it done then slow it down and find another company. Don't get
    your shorts in a knot when you receive less than cordial replies
    because those that compete with ADT don't take too kindly to being used
    to solve an ADT problem for free.

    wrote:
    > I am having an ADT system installed (ADT direct, not a reseller) and
    > will be using their rebranded Ademco wireless window sensors on 18
    > windows on my main level. The windows are new, warrantied, and white
    > vinyl which is why I am going wireless.
    >
    > The problem is related to my window blinds. My two inch blinds (which I
    > always leave in the full down position but swivel open and close daily)
    > leave less than a 1/2 inch between the back of the blinds when open and
    > the window surface. This appears to be less than the depth of the
    > sensor if we place it on the vertical side of the lower window (they
    > are single hung windows that have the bottom window slide up and down).
    > This would push the blinds out a slight bit (they would be touching the
    > sensor) and that seems unacceptable. The same issue exists if I mount
    > the sensor to the bottom sill as the blinds would rest on the sensor
    > which would look bad and perhaps cause the same issue. I can't mount
    > the sensors horizontally on the top corners of the bottom window (with
    > the magnet in the track) because the latches for the window to rotate
    > into the house are located there...
    >
    > The only place left I can think of? DEAD CENTER of the horizontal top
    > of the bottom window with the magnet on the glass surface of the upper
    > non-moving window. Do you think this will be horribly ugly? The sensor
    > matches the color of the white vinyl windows and the blinds should help
    > concel the boxes but I am really concerned about the look of the whole
    > deal.
    >
    > Any suggestions on other mounting options.
     
    Everywhere Man, Oct 15, 2006
    #7
  8. Mark Leuck Guest

    "Ratchet442" <> wrote in message
    news:JCkYg.14051$...
    > Well, here's my feelings on window sensors. I assume you lock your

    windows,
    > therefore the sensors will only go into alarm if the window is opened and

    if
    > I were a burglar I would not sit there for a hour trying to jimmy your
    > window open to no avail when I could have bent over and picked up a brick
    > and crash the window in, taking about a whole whopping .02 seconds to do

    it.
    > Consider using glassbreak detectors.


    But that same burglar will reach in and open the window instead of trying to
    crawl through a window frame full of broken glass
     
    Mark Leuck, Oct 15, 2006
    #8
  9. "Ratchet442" <> wrote in message
    news:wtlYg.14068$...
    > If he's a friggin moron maybe. Most of the incidents I've seen around
    > here, you'll find a broken glass window with a heavy old blanket hanging
    > over the window sill covering all of the broken glass. Don't take me
    > wrong, I'd prefer to see most customers with window sensors and
    > glassbreaks. But I'd prefer to see them start with the glassbreaks.


    Duct tape is applied
    Glass is smashed
    Duct tape silences the sound
    Hardly no broken glass to deal with
    GLASS BREAK FAILS
    PIR TRIPS WHEN BURGLAR WALK THRU
    YOU NEED TO BACK UP ALL TYPES OF GLASS PROTECTION WITH INTERIOR MOTIONS
    ..
     
    Group-Moderator, Oct 16, 2006
    #9
  10. Guest

    Everywhere Man wrote:
    > Why are you asking other industry members to do ADT's job? You signed
    > with them so let them handle the issues. If they can't do it the way
    > you want it done then slow it down and find another company. Don't get
    > your shorts in a knot when you receive less than cordial replies
    > because those that compete with ADT don't take too kindly to being used
    > to solve an ADT problem for free.


    if you read my first post i made clear that i have talked to FOUR
    different alarm installers (of which ADT is one, the other 3 are highly
    recommended Chicago locals) and all FOUR had difficulty explaining how
    they would attempt to install the window contacts (three incuding ADT
    recommended wireless sensors but had little suggestions for how to
    avoid either putting my blinds out of place or putting the sensor dead
    center on the window pane and the other suggested drilling my new vinyl
    windows since "it won't void the warranty, we promise" despite my
    telling them i called the window manufacturer.)

    this wasn't an "ADT problem" it was a problem with the sales folks at
    numerous companies, all of which CAME TO MY HOUSE, and still couldn't
    explain how they could avoid major aesthetic issues with 22 windows.
     
    , Oct 16, 2006
    #10
  11. Guest

    G. Morgan wrote:
    > On 14 Oct 2006 00:39:33 -0700, wrote:
    >
    > >wow, just wow.

    >
    > Exactly my thought when I read your THREE posts.
    >
    > >

    > Okay, that's reasonable. I just got the feeling from the tone of your
    > posts that you were going to be telling the installer how do his job.
    >
    > I have two suggestions for the windows. First, I don't know if you're
    > aware that there is a separate contact point inside the 5816
    > transmitter that will allow an external window contact to be used. So
    > in x-mitter can be mounted below the sill, or somewhere else out or
    > the way and just run a short jumper to mini-mag contacts that will
    > actually go on the windows. Second, if the internal contact is to be
    > used and you lack a small amount of clearance for the blinds there is
    > a low profile transmitter available, PN 5816MN.


    > That is good... and rare actually. Hopefully you don't get a 'dud'
    > installer. If you do --politely excuse him and call the installation
    > manager to get someone you feel comfortable with.


    never thought i would say this after your first post to me, but this is
    an EXCELLENT response and truly useful.
     
    , Oct 16, 2006
    #11
  12. Guest


    > The questions you are asking should have been asked before making the
    > decision on the company/products to use, why on earth would you have a
    > company install a system for you if they are unable to provide an acceptable
    > solution, unless the only question asked was "how much".
    >
    > Whatever location you decide upon should only be considered tentative, since
    > any wireless product should be tested for acceptable signal strength in its
    > intended location before permanently installing it and it may not be
    > possible to mount it in the desired location.
    >
    > BTW using capitals is considered shouting on usenet.


    I had 4 different companies (only one of which was a major national,
    ADT) all come to the house and each spent 45-60 minutes and all had
    difficulties explaining the window issues. At a certain point I can't
    keep calling and need to pick.

    And BTW I knew captials was shouting, that is why I only used it for
    part of one sentence in a multi-paragraph reply, a part I wanted to
    come through loud and clear.
     
    , Oct 16, 2006
    #12
  13. alarman Guest

    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > if you read my first post i made clear that i have talked to FOUR
    > different alarm installers (of which ADT is one, the other 3 are highly
    > recommended Chicago locals) and all FOUR had difficulty explaining how
    > they would attempt to install the window contacts (three incuding ADT
    > recommended wireless sensors but had little suggestions for how to
    > avoid either putting my blinds out of place or putting the sensor dead
    > center on the window pane and the other suggested drilling my new vinyl
    > windows since "it won't void the warranty, we promise" despite my
    > telling them i called the window manufacturer.)
    >
    > this wasn't an "ADT problem" it was a problem with the sales folks at
    > numerous companies, all of which CAME TO MY HOUSE, and still couldn't
    > explain how they could avoid major aesthetic issues with 22 windows.


    If you use wireless transmitters on your windows, and the blinds are in the
    way, the transmitters will either be mounted on the the window frame as you
    mentioned, or outside the blinds making them visible. What do you expect the
    installers to do? Do a little magic trick just for you?
    Doug already gave you the best solution. Stop whining, will ya?
    js
     
    alarman, Oct 16, 2006
    #13
  14. Tommy Guest

    Ask for the mini transmitters, and mount them on the top of the window frame, or mount the txm to the sill infront of the window, and simply stop your blinds on top of the sensor.


    look at these sensors
    http://www.security.honeywell.com/hsce/products/wireless/do/21232.html
    --



    wrote:

    >
    > > Let the alarm company provide the solution, that's what they're paid
    > > for.
    > >
    > > I feel sorry for the installer coming to your place == you're gonna
    > > second guess him every step of the way and follow him around like a
    > > puppy dog, aren't ya?

    >
    > wow, just wow.
    >
    > not quite the answer i was expecting. because i value my new home,
    > and my family i have done quite a bit of research, yes, including
    > getting quotes and professional opinions from several alarm companies,
    > including major nationals as well as independent companies. because of
    > the nature of my windows a wireless install is called for, yet
    > significant hurdles remain and all the alarms companies i spoke with
    > have been less than clear how their wireless soultions will be mounted
    > to attempt to preserve the look of the window since i have a particular
    > kind of blind. since i am concerned, and rightfully so based on posts
    > in this very forum, that some installers will "lick 'em and stick 'em"
    > when they show to my house i would like to be prepared with reasonable
    > suggests from experienced folks if their suggestions aren't superior. I
    > am afterall the home owner and customer.
    >
    > will i follow them around? no. will i be open to their professional
    > opinions and suggests... yes. will i be involved and understand the
    > logic of every details of my extensive security system, ie. placement,
    > operations, aestitics etc. ... you bet!
    >
    > NOW IF ANYONE IS WILLING TO HELP ME i have a photo of what all the
    > windows in general look like (before the blinds were placed.)
    >
    > http://static.flickr.com/108/269087792_eb5194c6c8_o.jpg


    --
    Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
     
    Tommy, Oct 16, 2006
    #14
  15. Crash Gordon Guest

    New construction? Why the heck didn't you have the house wired?

    They're gonna stick the 5816's wherever they will fit.

    Here's how we do it on tough houses like that...and we charge more for it.

    We cut a single gang hole in the wall underneath the the window at outlet
    height where we will put the transmitter, then we drill down through the
    window sill and run the contact down to the transmitter, the blank plate it.
    Time consuming but looks great.

    Has ADT actually looked at those windows yet?


    <> wrote in message
    news:...
    |
    | G. Morgan wrote:
    | > On 14 Oct 2006 00:39:33 -0700, wrote:
    | >
    | > >wow, just wow.
    | >
    | > Exactly my thought when I read your THREE posts.
    | >
    | > >
    | > Okay, that's reasonable. I just got the feeling from the tone of your
    | > posts that you were going to be telling the installer how do his job.
    | >
    | > I have two suggestions for the windows. First, I don't know if you're
    | > aware that there is a separate contact point inside the 5816
    | > transmitter that will allow an external window contact to be used. So
    | > in x-mitter can be mounted below the sill, or somewhere else out or
    | > the way and just run a short jumper to mini-mag contacts that will
    | > actually go on the windows. Second, if the internal contact is to be
    | > used and you lack a small amount of clearance for the blinds there is
    | > a low profile transmitter available, PN 5816MN.
    |
    | > That is good... and rare actually. Hopefully you don't get a 'dud'
    | > installer. If you do --politely excuse him and call the installation
    | > manager to get someone you feel comfortable with.
    |
    | never thought i would say this after your first post to me, but this is
    | an EXCELLENT response and truly useful.
    |
     
    Crash Gordon, Oct 16, 2006
    #15
  16. Crash Gordon Guest

    We install them in the wall for jobs like that, then fish the wires down to
    the transmitter...and charge a lot extra for it.

    Biggest question here is the house looks like NEW construction....like still
    under construction...like why didn;t it get wired?


    "alarman" <> wrote in message
    news:1KBYg.2551$La2.1920@fed1read08...
    | <> wrote in message
    | news:...
    | > if you read my first post i made clear that i have talked to FOUR
    | > different alarm installers (of which ADT is one, the other 3 are highly
    | > recommended Chicago locals) and all FOUR had difficulty explaining how
    | > they would attempt to install the window contacts (three incuding ADT
    | > recommended wireless sensors but had little suggestions for how to
    | > avoid either putting my blinds out of place or putting the sensor dead
    | > center on the window pane and the other suggested drilling my new vinyl
    | > windows since "it won't void the warranty, we promise" despite my
    | > telling them i called the window manufacturer.)
    | >
    | > this wasn't an "ADT problem" it was a problem with the sales folks at
    | > numerous companies, all of which CAME TO MY HOUSE, and still couldn't
    | > explain how they could avoid major aesthetic issues with 22 windows.
    |
    | If you use wireless transmitters on your windows, and the blinds are in
    the
    | way, the transmitters will either be mounted on the the window frame as
    you
    | mentioned, or outside the blinds making them visible. What do you expect
    the
    | installers to do? Do a little magic trick just for you?
    | Doug already gave you the best solution. Stop whining, will ya?
    | js
    |
    |
     
    Crash Gordon, Oct 16, 2006
    #16
  17. Crash Gordon Guest

    Try it...it won't work.

    But I do agree that you should have both types of detection.


    "Group-Moderator" <> wrote in message
    news:UizYg.918$...
    |
    | "Ratchet442" <> wrote in message
    | news:wtlYg.14068$...
    | > If he's a friggin moron maybe. Most of the incidents I've seen around
    | > here, you'll find a broken glass window with a heavy old blanket hanging
    | > over the window sill covering all of the broken glass. Don't take me
    | > wrong, I'd prefer to see most customers with window sensors and
    | > glassbreaks. But I'd prefer to see them start with the glassbreaks.
    |
    | Duct tape is applied
    | Glass is smashed
    | Duct tape silences the sound
    | Hardly no broken glass to deal with
    | GLASS BREAK FAILS
    | PIR TRIPS WHEN BURGLAR WALK THRU
    | YOU NEED TO BACK UP ALL TYPES OF GLASS PROTECTION WITH INTERIOR MOTIONS
    | .
    |
    |
     
    Crash Gordon, Oct 16, 2006
    #17
  18. JoeRaisin Guest

    wrote:
    > Everywhere Man wrote:
    >
    >>Why are you asking other industry members to do ADT's job? You signed
    >>with them so let them handle the issues. If they can't do it the way
    >>you want it done then slow it down and find another company. Don't get
    >>your shorts in a knot when you receive less than cordial replies
    >>because those that compete with ADT don't take too kindly to being used
    >>to solve an ADT problem for free.

    >
    >
    > if you read my first post i made clear that i have talked to FOUR
    > different alarm installers (of which ADT is one, the other 3 are highly
    > recommended Chicago locals) and all FOUR had difficulty explaining how
    > they would attempt to install the window contacts (three incuding ADT
    > recommended wireless sensors but had little suggestions for how to
    > avoid either putting my blinds out of place or putting the sensor dead
    > center on the window pane and the other suggested drilling my new vinyl
    > windows since "it won't void the warranty, we promise" despite my
    > telling them i called the window manufacturer.)
    >
    > this wasn't an "ADT problem" it was a problem with the sales folks at
    > numerous companies, all of which CAME TO MY HOUSE, and still couldn't
    > explain how they could avoid major aesthetic issues with 22 windows.
    >

    Because salesmen aren't installers and very rarely do they know how such
    a problem can be resolved.

    In my own house, any windows I couldn't get a wire to, got a 5816 behind
    the trim wired to a recessed contact. (and, yes there are drawings in
    the can describing where the transmitters are located)

    Putting the transmitters in single gang boxes such as Crash described is
    another trick I've used.

    Find out if your installers are paid by the hour or by the job. A guy
    paid hourly who has his bosses blessing on doing the job right will be
    more likely to take the time necessary to do a job like yours correctly.

    There are conscientious installers out there who are paid by the job,
    but you are not guaranteed to get one.
     
    JoeRaisin, Oct 16, 2006
    #18
  19. Guest

    the house is new construction but from a builder and pre-wiring was not
    an option sadly, clearly i would have done that. the photo i used was
    from before completion of the house, we have been in the house for 2
    weeks now.

    the transmitters used will be the 5816 for the windows.
     
    , Oct 16, 2006
    #19
  20. JoeRaisin Guest

    wrote:
    > the house is new construction but from a builder and pre-wiring was not
    > an option sadly, clearly i would have done that. the photo i used was
    > from before completion of the house, we have been in the house for 2
    > weeks now.
    >
    > the transmitters used will be the 5816 for the windows.
    >


    The 5816 has a built in switch which would mean the transmitter box has
    to be mounted on or next to the moving part of the window. This causes
    the problems you alluded to earlier.

    It also has connections for the smaller wired-type recessed switches.
    This will allow the transmitters to be hidden from view with a wire
    fished to the window attatched to a small hidden contact that will not
    only leave your blinds unmolested but will be hardly (if at all)
    noticable.

    Since you are concerned about how the transmitters will affect your
    window treatments, you should ask the company about this option.
     
    JoeRaisin, Oct 17, 2006
    #20
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