Solderable PCB standoffs?

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Michael, Oct 1, 2007.

  1. Michael

    Michael Guest

    Greetings dudes and dudettes of the SED:

    I feel like I've seen various PCB standoffs over the years that you
    could solder on to a PCB. Heck - I feel like I have even seen some
    surface mount ones. Anybody know where I can find these buggers? Also,
    do you think using a surface mount one would be completely insane?
    (I'd be somewhat scared about it ripping up nearby traces if it was
    tugged on too hard)

    Thanks,

    -Michael
    Michael, Oct 1, 2007
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Michael <> hath wroth:

    >Greetings dudes and dudettes of the SED:
    >
    >I feel like I've seen various PCB standoffs over the years that you
    >could solder on to a PCB. Heck - I feel like I have even seen some
    >surface mount ones. Anybody know where I can find these buggers?


    What you're looking for might be a hex or round standoff. The brass
    ones are solderable. Most are nickel plated and solderable. Be
    careful not to get something where the plating can't be soldered such
    as cadmium plated. See:
    <http://www.keyelco.com/products/sprod09.asp?CategoryID=11>
    <http://www.keyelco.com/products/prod31.asp?SubCategoryID=94>

    >Also,
    >do you think using a surface mount one would be completely insane?


    Of course it's insane. All good ideas are deemed insane until proven
    otherwise. Just assume that it's an insane idea and blunder onwards.
    You'll be yelled at by production at the appropriate time if you need
    confirmation of insanity.

    >(I'd be somewhat scared about it ripping up nearby traces if it was
    >tugged on too hard)


    No, that won't be the problem if you use a through hole and a screw to
    maintain mechanical integrity. For small tin boards, something like a
    2-56 thread might be appropriate. If you're relying on the copper
    ground plane to support the standoffs, it can be done. However, the
    last time I did that, I had to use 2-oz copper on 0.062" G10/FR4 (due
    to high currents). The much thinner 0.5-oz copper on 0.032 board
    would never have worked, so we used screws and plastic spacers for
    those.

    You may also have a problem soldering it without destroying the board.
    If you use a vapor reflow or IR heating to solder the surface mount
    board, the large mass of the standoff will absorb enough heat to burn
    the board. If not burned, it will warp it due to uneven cooling. It
    may also be too big to handle, too close to the edge to clamp, and too
    difficult to rework (if soldering fails). However, if you install the
    standoffs as a post soldering operation, you could probably control
    the heating and simplify the fixturing effectively.

    Is there some reason you need to solder the standoff to the board?
    Wouldn't a small screw do just as well? If you're worried about
    breakage, don't put the hole too close to the edge, use washers, and
    assemble it in a fixture.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann
    150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558
    Jeff Liebermann, Oct 1, 2007
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Michael

    DJ Delorie Guest

    I wonder if there's such a thing that is shaped like a SOJ-4 (or SMT
    DIP-4, like optocouplers are) but has a 2-56 thread in it? That could
    be reflow soldered like everything else, and still provide a
    lightweight mechanical fastening.
    DJ Delorie, Oct 1, 2007
    #3
  4. Michael

    Guest

    On Oct 1, 12:46 pm, Michael <> wrote:
    > Greetings dudes and dudettes of the SED:
    >
    > I feel like I've seen various PCB standoffs over the years that you
    > could solder on to a PCB. Heck - I feel like I have even seen some
    > surface mount ones. Anybody know where I can find these buggers? Also,
    > do you think using a surface mount one would be completely insane?
    > (I'd be somewhat scared about it ripping up nearby traces if it was
    > tugged on too hard)
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > -Michael


    heve you considered PEM nuts?

    http://www.pemnet.com/comp_lit_files/

    al
    , Oct 2, 2007
    #4
  5. On Oct 2, 9:30 am, wrote:
    > On Oct 1, 12:46 pm, Michael <> wrote:
    >
    > > Greetings dudes and dudettes of the SED:

    >
    > > I feel like I've seen various PCB standoffs over the years that you
    > > could solder on to a PCB. Heck - I feel like I have even seen some
    > > surface mount ones. Anybody know where I can find these buggers? Also,
    > > do you think using a surface mount one would be completely insane?
    > > (I'd be somewhat scared about it ripping up nearby traces if it was
    > > tugged on too hard)

    >
    > > Thanks,

    >
    > > -Michael

    >
    > heve you considered PEM nuts?
    >
    > http://www.pemnet.com/comp_lit_files/
    >
    > al


    They also have SMD standoff's
    http://www.pemnet.com/fastening_products/pdf/smtdata.pdf

    I'm about to use them for a product, but haven't actually tried them
    yet.
    Will have to do some trials.

    Dave.
    David L. Jones, Oct 2, 2007
    #5
  6. Michael

    JeffM Guest

    Michael wrote:
    >I feel like I've seen various PCB standoffs over the years
    >that you could solder on to a PCB.


    IME these are a lousy idea.
    Depending on the mechanical strength of solder as a fastener is dumb.
    Trying to solder them (and especially to REsolder them) was a PITA.
    The FR4 didn't like all the heat and the copper got damaged a lot.

    SCREWS are the way to fasten a standoff.
    JeffM, Oct 2, 2007
    #6
  7. Michael

    D from BC Guest

    On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:46:30 -0000, Michael <>
    wrote:

    >Greetings dudes and dudettes of the SED:
    >
    >I feel like I've seen various PCB standoffs over the years that you
    >could solder on to a PCB. Heck - I feel like I have even seen some
    >surface mount ones. Anybody know where I can find these buggers? Also,
    >do you think using a surface mount one would be completely insane?
    >(I'd be somewhat scared about it ripping up nearby traces if it was
    >tugged on too hard)
    >
    >Thanks,
    >
    >-Michael


    I'm not sure.. but check

    http://www.keyelco.com/

    They have lots of bits and pieces..
    D from BC
    D from BC, Oct 2, 2007
    #7
  8. Michael

    John Larkin Guest

    On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 16:49:30 -0700, "David L. Jones"
    <> wrote:

    >On Oct 2, 9:30 am, wrote:
    >> On Oct 1, 12:46 pm, Michael <> wrote:
    >>
    >> > Greetings dudes and dudettes of the SED:

    >>
    >> > I feel like I've seen various PCB standoffs over the years that you
    >> > could solder on to a PCB. Heck - I feel like I have even seen some
    >> > surface mount ones. Anybody know where I can find these buggers? Also,
    >> > do you think using a surface mount one would be completely insane?
    >> > (I'd be somewhat scared about it ripping up nearby traces if it was
    >> > tugged on too hard)

    >>
    >> > Thanks,

    >>
    >> > -Michael

    >>
    >> heve you considered PEM nuts?
    >>
    >> http://www.pemnet.com/comp_lit_files/
    >>
    >> al

    >
    >They also have SMD standoff's
    >http://www.pemnet.com/fastening_products/pdf/smtdata.pdf
    >
    >I'm about to use them for a product, but haven't actually tried them
    >yet.
    >Will have to do some trials.
    >
    >Dave.



    The knurled press-in PEM spacers are great. You pop them in after
    everything else is soldered. But be careful not to run traces too
    close to the holes, and fixture the press operation properly, and
    don't make the fit too tight, or you'll fracture traces.

    John
    John Larkin, Oct 2, 2007
    #8
  9. Michael

    Ross Herbert Guest

    On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 19:46:30 -0000, Michael <>
    wrote:

    >Greetings dudes and dudettes of the SED:
    >
    >I feel like I've seen various PCB standoffs over the years that you
    >could solder on to a PCB. Heck - I feel like I have even seen some
    >surface mount ones. Anybody know where I can find these buggers?

    Also,
    >do you think using a surface mount one would be completely insane?
    >(I'd be somewhat scared about it ripping up nearby traces if it was
    >tugged on too hard)
    >
    >Thanks,
    >
    >-Michael



    As other have suggested, use PEM fasteners. I used them back inthe
    90's and they proved the best method of attaching standoffs to pcb's.
    http://www.pemnet.com/fastening_products/pdf/kdata.pdf
    Ross Herbert, Oct 2, 2007
    #9
  10. On 01 Oct 2007 17:05:25 -0400, DJ Delorie <> wrote:

    >
    >I wonder if there's such a thing that is shaped like a SOJ-4 (or SMT
    >DIP-4, like optocouplers are) but has a 2-56 thread in it? That could
    >be reflow soldered like everything else, and still provide a
    >lightweight mechanical fastening.


    How about something like this :

    http://www.toby.co.uk/content/catalogue/products.asp?series=PCB-1
    Mike Harrison, Oct 2, 2007
    #10
  11. On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 17:07:23 -0700, JeffM <> wrote:

    >Michael wrote:
    >>I feel like I've seen various PCB standoffs over the years
    >>that you could solder on to a PCB.

    >
    >IME these are a lousy idea.
    >Depending on the mechanical strength of solder as a fastener is dumb.
    >Trying to solder them (and especially to REsolder them) was a PITA.
    >The FR4 didn't like all the heat and the copper got damaged a lot.


    This is where using a decent iron like a metcal with a big tip helps a lot - if you can get the heat
    in quickly it reduces the risk of damage.
    Mike Harrison, Oct 2, 2007
    #11
  12. Michael

    DJ Delorie Guest

    Mike Harrison <> writes:
    > http://www.toby.co.uk/content/catalogue/products.asp?series=PCB-1


    That's almost what I was thinking of. Just bend the legs out to make
    it an SMT gull-wing. Not much mechanical strength, but very
    light-weight.

    Now that I know what to look for, here's another example:
    http://www.keyelco.com/products/specs/spec68.asp

    Although those are 6-32 screws, if you imagine the legs bent out 90
    degrees, it's the shape I was thinking of. I don't think you'd want
    something like that with more than a 2-56 screw's worth of load,
    though.
    DJ Delorie, Oct 2, 2007
    #12
  13. Michael

    Phil Hobbs Guest

    John Larkin wrote:
    > On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 16:49:30 -0700, "David L. Jones"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Oct 2, 9:30 am, wrote:
    >>> On Oct 1, 12:46 pm, Michael <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Greetings dudes and dudettes of the SED:
    >>>> I feel like I've seen various PCB standoffs over the years that you
    >>>> could solder on to a PCB. Heck - I feel like I have even seen some
    >>>> surface mount ones. Anybody know where I can find these buggers? Also,
    >>>> do you think using a surface mount one would be completely insane?
    >>>> (I'd be somewhat scared about it ripping up nearby traces if it was
    >>>> tugged on too hard)
    >>>> Thanks,
    >>>> -Michael
    >>> heve you considered PEM nuts?
    >>>
    >>> http://www.pemnet.com/comp_lit_files/
    >>>
    >>> al

    >> They also have SMD standoff's
    >> http://www.pemnet.com/fastening_products/pdf/smtdata.pdf
    >>
    >> I'm about to use them for a product, but haven't actually tried them
    >> yet.
    >> Will have to do some trials.
    >>
    >> Dave.

    >
    >
    > The knurled press-in PEM spacers are great. You pop them in after
    > everything else is soldered. But be careful not to run traces too
    > close to the holes, and fixture the press operation properly, and
    > don't make the fit too tight, or you'll fracture traces.
    >
    > John
    >


    Do PEM nuts in FR-4 loosen at high temperatures the way eyelets and
    lockwashers do? I've always been much happier soldering stuff on if the
    board might see high temperatures for any length of time.

    Cheers,

    Phil Hobbs
    Phil Hobbs, Oct 2, 2007
    #13
  14. Michael

    John Larkin Guest

    On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:13:27 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <> wrote:

    >John Larkin wrote:
    >> On Mon, 01 Oct 2007 16:49:30 -0700, "David L. Jones"
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Oct 2, 9:30 am, wrote:
    >>>> On Oct 1, 12:46 pm, Michael <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Greetings dudes and dudettes of the SED:
    >>>>> I feel like I've seen various PCB standoffs over the years that you
    >>>>> could solder on to a PCB. Heck - I feel like I have even seen some
    >>>>> surface mount ones. Anybody know where I can find these buggers? Also,
    >>>>> do you think using a surface mount one would be completely insane?
    >>>>> (I'd be somewhat scared about it ripping up nearby traces if it was
    >>>>> tugged on too hard)
    >>>>> Thanks,
    >>>>> -Michael
    >>>> heve you considered PEM nuts?
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.pemnet.com/comp_lit_files/
    >>>>
    >>>> al
    >>> They also have SMD standoff's
    >>> http://www.pemnet.com/fastening_products/pdf/smtdata.pdf
    >>>
    >>> I'm about to use them for a product, but haven't actually tried them
    >>> yet.
    >>> Will have to do some trials.
    >>>
    >>> Dave.

    >>
    >>
    >> The knurled press-in PEM spacers are great. You pop them in after
    >> everything else is soldered. But be careful not to run traces too
    >> close to the holes, and fixture the press operation properly, and
    >> don't make the fit too tight, or you'll fracture traces.
    >>
    >> John
    >>

    >
    >Do PEM nuts in FR-4 loosen at high temperatures the way eyelets and
    >lockwashers do? I've always been much happier soldering stuff on if the
    >board might see high temperatures for any length of time.
    >
    >Cheers,
    >
    >Phil Hobbs


    I've never seen one come loose. Those puppies are *tight*. You'd think
    things might cold flow, but we haven't seen it. I'd be hesitant to use
    one for a high-current electrical connection, though. But that's
    always hard to do on a pc board.

    What I hate is a spacer secured by a screw on the bottom of the board,
    inaccessable, that comes loose when you unscrew something on the other
    end. That makes me SO MAD.

    John
    John Larkin, Oct 2, 2007
    #14
  15. Michael

    Michael Guest

    On Oct 1, 7:49 pm, "David L. Jones" <> wrote:
    >
    > They also have SMD standoff'shttp://www.pemnet.com/fastening_products/pdf/smtdata.pdf
    >
    > I'm about to use them for a product, but haven't actually tried them
    > yet.
    > Will have to do some trials.
    >
    > Dave.


    That seems like almost exactly what I wanted. It looks like you still
    have to put in a hole for those, but otherwise that's just about
    right. I'll check them out.

    Thanks!

    -Michael
    Michael, Oct 2, 2007
    #15
  16. Michael

    Michael Guest

    On Oct 1, 4:56 pm, Jeff Liebermann <> wrote:
    >
    > What you're looking for might be a hex or round standoff. The brass
    > ones are solderable. Most are nickel plated and solderable. Be
    > careful not to get something where the plating can't be soldered such
    > as cadmium plated. See:
    > <http://www.keyelco.com/products/sprod09.asp?CategoryID=11>
    > <http://www.keyelco.com/products/prod31.asp?SubCategoryID=94>


    That is the more traditional standoff - would be hard to surface mount
    the buggers!

    > >Also,
    > >do you think using a surface mount one would be completely insane?

    >
    > Of course it's insane. All good ideas are deemed insane until proven
    > otherwise. Just assume that it's an insane idea and blunder onwards.
    > You'll be yelled at by production at the appropriate time if you need
    > confirmation of insanity.


    We do small enough volume here that not only am I leading electronics
    design on this project, I also am leading electronics production! I
    get to yell at myself!

    > >(I'd be somewhat scared about it ripping up nearby traces if it was
    > >tugged on too hard)

    >
    > No, that won't be the problem if you use a through hole and a screw to
    > maintain mechanical integrity. For small tin boards, something like a
    > 2-56 thread might be appropriate. If you're relying on the copper
    > ground plane to support the standoffs, it can be done. However, the
    > last time I did that, I had to use 2-oz copper on 0.062" G10/FR4 (due
    > to high currents). The much thinner 0.5-oz copper on 0.032 board
    > would never have worked, so we used screws and plastic spacers for
    > those.


    I was hoping to avoid putting a screw through the board. This is a
    very, very high density board and space is at a premium - hence why
    I'm hoping to find a surface mount standoff.

    > You may also have a problem soldering it without destroying the board.
    > If you use a vapor reflow or IR heating to solder the surface mount
    > board, the large mass of the standoff will absorb enough heat to burn
    > the board. If not burned, it will warp it due to uneven cooling. It
    > may also be too big to handle, too close to the edge to clamp, and too
    > difficult to rework (if soldering fails). However, if you install the
    > standoffs as a post soldering operation, you could probably control
    > the heating and simplify the fixturing effectively.


    I hadn't thought about that - but that's a very good poitn. We
    typically hand everything to a board assembly house and have them do
    it - I'll call them ahead of time and see if they're worried.

    > Is there some reason you need to solder the standoff to the board?
    > Wouldn't a small screw do just as well? If you're worried about
    > breakage, don't put the hole too close to the edge, use washers, and
    > assemble it in a fixture.


    Soldering will make it more permanent - less parts that fall out when
    disassembled. Also, hopefully if we can find a surfacemount one we
    don't have to put a hole all the way through the board.

    Apologies if this gets posted twice.

    Thanks,

    -Michael
    Michael, Oct 2, 2007
    #16
  17. Michael

    Rich Grise Guest

    On Tue, 02 Oct 2007 22:40:30 +0000, Michael wrote:
    > On Oct 1, 4:56 pm, Jeff Liebermann <> wrote:

    ....
    >> Is there some reason you need to solder the standoff to the board?
    >> Wouldn't a small screw do just as well? If you're worried about
    >> breakage, don't put the hole too close to the edge, use washers, and
    >> assemble it in a fixture.

    >
    > Soldering will make it more permanent - less parts that fall out when
    > disassembled. Also, hopefully if we can find a surfacemount one we
    > don't have to put a hole all the way through the board.
    >


    What's this board getting mounted into? Why not put plastic
    clips around the perimeter and snap it in?

    Good Luck!
    Rich
    Rich Grise, Oct 3, 2007
    #17
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund

    Looking for Solderable Terminal

    Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund, Nov 4, 2003, in forum: Electronic Components
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    302
    Arie de Muynck
    Nov 5, 2003
  2. Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund

    Looking for Solderable Terminal

    Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund, Nov 4, 2003, in forum: Electronic Design
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    380
    Arie de Muynck
    Nov 5, 2003
  3. Jamie Morken

    solderable screw terminal strips

    Jamie Morken, Feb 25, 2004, in forum: Electronic Design
    Replies:
    4
    Views:
    515
    R.Legg
    Feb 26, 2004
  4. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    765
    tamil
    Feb 7, 2006
  5. Replies:
    1
    Views:
    819
    Tim Shoppa
    Jun 10, 2008
Loading...

Share This Page