Re: OT: For You Science Guys - Microsoft Project Tuva

Discussion in 'Boat Electronics' started by jpjccd@psbnewton.com, Jul 15, 2009.

  1. Guest

    On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:53:17 -0400, Wayne.B
    <> wrote:

    >Maybe it's just me but I find this very cool. Bill Gates has
    >acquired the rights to a series of lectures by famous physicist
    >Richard Feynman and has put them online with full transcripts and
    >animated annotations. Feynman, of course, is not only a Nobel prize
    >winner but an incredibly lucid speaker who has a good sense of humor
    >and a gift for explaining the very complicated at a human level.
    >
    >http://research.microsoft.com/apps/tools/tuva/index.html



    We can all be grateful for Bill's munificence. Perhaps he could have
    as well adopted the Linux model and permitted Windows to be
    open-source. That would have been righteous.

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    #1
  2. Guest

    On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:27:03 -0400, Wayne.B
    <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:16:34 -0500, wrote:
    >
    >>On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:53:17 -0400, Wayne.B
    >><> wrote:
    >>
    >>>Maybe it's just me but I find this very cool. Bill Gates has
    >>>acquired the rights to a series of lectures by famous physicist
    >>>Richard Feynman and has put them online with full transcripts and
    >>>animated annotations. Feynman, of course, is not only a Nobel prize
    >>>winner but an incredibly lucid speaker who has a good sense of humor
    >>>and a gift for explaining the very complicated at a human level.
    >>>
    >>>http://research.microsoft.com/apps/tools/tuva/index.html

    >>
    >>
    >>We can all be grateful for Bill's munificence. Perhaps he could have
    >>as well adopted the Linux model and permitted Windows to be
    >>open-source. That would have been righteous.

    >
    >Sometimes the profit motive can be a good thing, and certainly
    >competition always is. Linux will force Microsoft to stay
    >competetive, and Windows offers the rest of us a solution in a box
    >that is easy to install. There's no question that Windows is a
    >resource hog and sometimes slower than you'd like, but the price is
    >reasonable in my opinion and the hardware vendors have done a good job
    >keeping up with requirements.


    The Microsoft model certainly has been successful. Microsoft's
    success, though, can be traced back to IBM's pc open-architecture.
    Remember when the pc, 8086, -286, -386, et al, were referred to as IBM
    clones?

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    #2
  3. Guest

    On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:29:11 -0400, BAR <> wrote:

    > wrote:
    >> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:53:17 -0400, Wayne.B
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Maybe it's just me but I find this very cool. Bill Gates has
    >>> acquired the rights to a series of lectures by famous physicist
    >>> Richard Feynman and has put them online with full transcripts and
    >>> animated annotations. Feynman, of course, is not only a Nobel prize
    >>> winner but an incredibly lucid speaker who has a good sense of humor
    >>> and a gift for explaining the very complicated at a human level.
    >>>
    >>> http://research.microsoft.com/apps/tools/tuva/index.html

    >>
    >>
    >> We can all be grateful for Bill's munificence. Perhaps he could have
    >> as well adopted the Linux model and permitted Windows to be
    >> open-source. That would have been righteous.

    >
    >You did notice that Billy Gates didn't get all philanthropic until he
    >got all of his.


    Ja, Ja!

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    #3
  4. Guest

    On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:30:25 -0400, BAR <> wrote:

    > wrote:
    >> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:27:03 -0400, Wayne.B
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:16:34 -0500, wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:53:17 -0400, Wayne.B
    >>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Maybe it's just me but I find this very cool. Bill Gates has
    >>>>> acquired the rights to a series of lectures by famous physicist
    >>>>> Richard Feynman and has put them online with full transcripts and
    >>>>> animated annotations. Feynman, of course, is not only a Nobel prize
    >>>>> winner but an incredibly lucid speaker who has a good sense of humor
    >>>>> and a gift for explaining the very complicated at a human level.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://research.microsoft.com/apps/tools/tuva/index.html
    >>>>
    >>>> We can all be grateful for Bill's munificence. Perhaps he could have
    >>>> as well adopted the Linux model and permitted Windows to be
    >>>> open-source. That would have been righteous.
    >>> Sometimes the profit motive can be a good thing, and certainly
    >>> competition always is. Linux will force Microsoft to stay
    >>> competetive, and Windows offers the rest of us a solution in a box
    >>> that is easy to install. There's no question that Windows is a
    >>> resource hog and sometimes slower than you'd like, but the price is
    >>> reasonable in my opinion and the hardware vendors have done a good job
    >>> keeping up with requirements.

    >>
    >> The Microsoft model certainly has been successful. Microsoft's
    >> success, though, can be traced back to IBM's pc open-architecture.
    >> Remember when the pc, 8086, -286, -386, et al, were referred to as IBM
    >> clones?

    >
    >The clone was the IBM PC, not the processor.


    The IBM pc incorporated the intel processor. That's why Lotus, Intel,
    and Microsoft convened to develop the LIM specification. And I may be
    mistaken; but, I believe that's when Bill proffered his 'no one will
    need more than 64k [conventional memory].' The point, though, is that
    IBM's decision not to protect it's architecture for it's personal pc
    by patent benefited Microsoft more than many may appreciate or history
    may record.

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    , Jul 16, 2009
    #4
  5. Guest

    On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:00:31 -0400, BAR <> wrote:

    > wrote:
    >> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:30:25 -0400, BAR <> wrote:
    >>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 17:27:03 -0400, Wayne.B
    >>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:16:34 -0500, wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:53:17 -0400, Wayne.B
    >>>>>> <> wrote:
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>>> Maybe it's just me but I find this very cool. Bill Gates has
    >>>>>>> acquired the rights to a series of lectures by famous physicist
    >>>>>>> Richard Feynman and has put them online with full transcripts and
    >>>>>>> animated annotations. Feynman, of course, is not only a Nobel prize
    >>>>>>> winner but an incredibly lucid speaker who has a good sense of humor
    >>>>>>> and a gift for explaining the very complicated at a human level.
    >>>>>>>
    >>>>>>> http://research.microsoft.com/apps/tools/tuva/index.html
    >>>>>> We can all be grateful for Bill's munificence. Perhaps he could have
    >>>>>> as well adopted the Linux model and permitted Windows to be
    >>>>>> open-source. That would have been righteous.
    >>>>> Sometimes the profit motive can be a good thing, and certainly
    >>>>> competition always is. Linux will force Microsoft to stay
    >>>>> competetive, and Windows offers the rest of us a solution in a box
    >>>>> that is easy to install. There's no question that Windows is a
    >>>>> resource hog and sometimes slower than you'd like, but the price is
    >>>>> reasonable in my opinion and the hardware vendors have done a good job
    >>>>> keeping up with requirements.
    >>>> The Microsoft model certainly has been successful. Microsoft's
    >>>> success, though, can be traced back to IBM's pc open-architecture.
    >>>> Remember when the pc, 8086, -286, -386, et al, were referred to as IBM
    >>>> clones?
    >>> The clone was the IBM PC, not the processor.

    >>
    >> The IBM pc incorporated the intel processor. That's why Lotus, Intel,
    >> and Microsoft convened to develop the LIM specification. And I may be
    >> mistaken; but, I believe that's when Bill proffered his 'no one will
    >> need more than 64k [conventional memory].' The point, though, is that
    >> IBM's decision not to protect it's architecture for it's personal pc
    >> by patent benefited Microsoft more than many may appreciate or history
    >> may record.

    >
    >IBM was late to the party.
    >
    >Way back in 1983 I was running a CTOS, PC-DOS, and CP/M-86 on a single
    >8086 with 640K of memory. When I say running I mean running and not
    >booting up one after the other. The problem was the cost of the systems
    >prohibitied there widespread commercial adoption. However, one uniformed
    >service had them deployed all over the world in mass quantities.
    >
    >And, this all predated the release of IBM's vaunted PC and Apple's much
    >marketed Mac.


    I haven't heard anyone refer to the CP/M OS for years. Those were the
    days of the really big floppy disks, too. (If I remember correctly I
    had seen disks that were like 6 or 7 inches.) I understand what
    you're saying, and you've obviously have been involved for sometime.
    Even still, IBM being late to the party, it's architecture was what
    was adopted early on by small, independent manufacturer's of pc's, as
    it's architecture was left unprotected. And IBM had provided an
    architecture that wasn't fully integrated and proprietary. And
    considering that Microsoft had a business arrangement with IBM to
    provide MS-DOS on their systems, it became the OS of choice for the
    producers of clones. There were the competing OS's like Dr. DOS,
    Seven DOS, and Quarterdeck's multitasking software (the name escapes
    me), but MS-DOS won out, and if for no other reason than it had that
    special relationship with IBM. And the early versions of Windows were
    designed to work as a time-slicing program, multitasking program in
    the MS-DOS OS, that is until Windows 95, which was Bill's attempt to
    supplant MS-DOS as the OS. It's been such a long time, hopefully I
    haven't confused the details too much. Too be honest my first
    personal computer was an Atari 800xl. (I loved that thing. I think
    it was a 6502 process.)

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    #5
  6. Guest

    On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 23:52:12 -0400, Wayne.B
    <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:59:57 -0500, wrote:
    >
    >>MS-DOS won out, and if for no other reason than it had that
    >>special relationship with IBM.

    >
    >There was a very funny story, quite possibly true, about IBM's
    >selection of MS-DOS. Prior to the PC the S-100 hardware bus and CPM
    >operating system were becoming defacto standards for personal
    >computers. The IBM development team wanted to evaluate CPM for their
    >PC product and made an appointment to meet with Gary Kildall,
    >president of Digital Research, and founder of CPM. The story goes
    >that when the IBM team arrived for the meeting, Kidall was out flying
    >his airplane. The rest is history.


    I don't recall having heard that story before, though, it has a
    familiar ring to it. I had read before that Gates recognized an
    opportunity with IBM, and he deftly purchased the rights to Quick Dos
    (?) which had been developed by a small Seattle software company. From
    there, he flew, with his newly packaged software, to meet with the IBM
    folks, and as you said, the rest is history.

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    #6
  7. On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 22:57:22 -0700, jps <> wrote:

    >On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 21:29:11 -0400, BAR <> wrote:
    >
    >> wrote:
    >>> On Wed, 15 Jul 2009 16:53:17 -0400, Wayne.B
    >>> <> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Maybe it's just me but I find this very cool. Bill Gates has
    >>>> acquired the rights to a series of lectures by famous physicist
    >>>> Richard Feynman and has put them online with full transcripts and
    >>>> animated annotations. Feynman, of course, is not only a Nobel prize
    >>>> winner but an incredibly lucid speaker who has a good sense of humor
    >>>> and a gift for explaining the very complicated at a human level.
    >>>>
    >>>> http://research.microsoft.com/apps/tools/tuva/index.html
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> We can all be grateful for Bill's munificence. Perhaps he could have
    >>> as well adopted the Linux model and permitted Windows to be
    >>> open-source. That would have been righteous.

    >>
    >>You did notice that Billy Gates didn't get all philanthropic until he
    >>got all of his.

    >
    >He didn't get philanthropic until Melinda piqued his interest in life
    >outside of the PC race. Not that his family didn't already lean that
    >way, it just required having a better half to broaden his focus.
    >
    >He's making up for his rabid competitiveness, laser focus and take no
    >prisoners approach by redistributing all that earned booty to
    >excellent causes. He's doing a better job than any government could.


    Agreed.
    Captain Marvel of Woodstock, Jul 16, 2009
    #7
  8. Larry Guest

    BAR <> wrote in
    news::

    > Way back in 1983 I was running a CTOS, PC-DOS, and CP/M-86 on a single
    > 8086 with 640K of memory. When I say running I mean running and not
    > booting up one after the other. The problem was the cost of the

    systems
    > prohibitied there widespread commercial adoption. However, one

    uniformed
    > service had them deployed all over the world in mass quantities.
    >


    My first computer, an S-100 bus homebrew, had 8K of memory, toggle
    switches for hexidecimal input and 6V light bulbs running on 5V for
    output. Then, some smartasses came out with BASIC in ROM and a 20ma
    teletype loop interface to simplify I/O. We all ran through miles of
    paper tape stolen from whoever left a roll unguarded. I still have
    ASCII paper tapes in a drawer somewhere for old-times-sake. We
    meticulously input text to create huge Vargas Girls pictures on teletype
    machines we also transmitted in Baudot teletype code over ham radio for
    hours. Each month the day Playboy came out enthousiasts across the
    planet deserted work and family until their best text conversion was
    being transmitted of the latest Vargas girl.

    8K ran short very soon and more smartasses sold us 256K monsterous
    memory cards for $250 you just HAD to have...more than that new car, TV,
    stereo...

    We moved on to CP/M and Unix (stolen again). Then this little kid
    genius with 7 other guys formed a company only a few now-billionaires
    invested in called Microsoft. Their picture hangs on my wall next to a
    picture of Billy Gates and Paul Allen taken by a school teacher through
    the window of the closet the school had installed a teletype terminal on
    a phone line hooked to somebody's IBM 360. Billy said, "We told it what
    to do and it did it!" That picture is captioned "TIME BOMB". It's the
    earliest picture I know of of Gates at a computer. He was about 14, I'm
    told, but looks, as always like much younger...10?

    Time Bomb:
    http://www.askreamaor.com/images/watching_Paul_Allen_work.jpg

    The Early Years 1978
    http://www.wagoneers.com/CS/MSinfo/microsoft-early-years.jpg
    Would you have given these guys your money?
    Anyone who did is now filthy rich......


    --
    -----
    Larry

    Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the
    entrails of the last cleric.
    Larry, Jul 16, 2009
    #8
  9. Larry Guest

    wrote in news:v45t5516fe7ced07mt0ej5lt07v7i8emsa@
    4ax.com:

    > I think
    > it was a 6502 process.)
    >


    I was on Ohio Scientific dealer. Here is our 6502 C2. You added the
    DUAL 8" floppy drives in another box. Video was TV!...no graphics.
    http://osi.marks-lab.com/images/Challenger2-8P.jpg

    If you go to Mark's Lab:
    http://osi.marks-lab.com/
    You can download the OSI Emulator, which will turn your Windows machine
    into an OSI Cx computer circa 1975, complete with OS-65/U operating
    system and OSI extended BASIC in virtual ROM. Take a step back in time
    and test your skills!

    You can also download the ORIGINAL OS-65D V3.3 disk images for your 8"
    6502 floppy drives....one of the first disk-based operating systems for
    microcomputers.

    http://osi.marks-lab.com/images/pamphlet5.jpg
    This is our first home computer, the C2 Challenger II. Tape programmed
    MUCH faster than Radio Crap's TRS-DOS with TV output you could plug into
    any TV video port or use a TV RF modulator. No monitor to buy, if you
    couldn't afford one.

    Wow...I'd forgotten our retail prices...(c;]

    Here's a great page to show our stuff:
    http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele/OhioScientific.html
    Look down this page and you'll see a two-cabinet computer with serial
    terminal and big white 8" disk drive. That's the beast...The Challenger
    III, the FIRST commercial microcomputer with a HARD DRIVE! The drive, a
    74MB, 14", 4-platter monster stolen from the mini-computer market, was a
    $6000 ADDON! The Challenger III had THREE processors, a Z-80 for CP/M,
    a Motorola 6800 and our usual 6502 running OS-65/U with extended BASIC
    that actually supported the hard disk drive noone else had. Want to
    boot another OS? No problemo! Just flip the switch to choose your
    processor and click the big button on the front to REBOOT from your
    floppy!

    My partner and I wrote several BASIC systems and sold them as packages
    to small business. Our vending machine accounting system was still in
    use as late as 1989 in several places. OSI had a vendor for general
    accounting on it. Sold quite a few of those. We wrote customized
    database systems for specific others....trucking, inventory control,
    etc. We made more money on support than sales. Computers were not a
    do-it-yourselves plug-n-pray like today. We bought terminals for it
    directly from a dumb terminal manufacturer 35 miles away in Columbia,
    SC. We also sold the terminals as a dealer...ADDS Regent series, mostly
    model 25...built like a tank.

    Being an OSI dealer was a hobby for our CB business, but became much
    more serious as we learned how to be computer dealers with on-the-job
    training. 1975 up....great fun! Seeley Communications, Sumter, SC. My
    biggest sale was to Liggett and Myers Tobacco Company in NC. We sold
    them twenty four C4P with dual floppies and monitors to set up a
    computer training class for their employees. Boy did we smile coming
    home THAT day driving back to Sumter!

    "Free set of tuning tools with every CB repair!".....(c;]


    --
    -----
    Larry

    Thanks for the memories....Geez, I been playing on keyboards a LONG
    time!
    Larry, Jul 16, 2009
    #9
  10. Guest

    On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 17:07:04 +0000, Larry <> wrote:

    > wrote in news:v45t5516fe7ced07mt0ej5lt07v7i8emsa@
    >4ax.com:
    >
    >> I think
    >> it was a 6502 process.)
    >>

    >
    >I was on Ohio Scientific dealer. Here is our 6502 C2. You added the
    >DUAL 8" floppy drives in another box. Video was TV!...no graphics.
    >http://osi.marks-lab.com/images/Challenger2-8P.jpg
    >
    >If you go to Mark's Lab:
    >http://osi.marks-lab.com/
    >You can download the OSI Emulator, which will turn your Windows machine
    >into an OSI Cx computer circa 1975, complete with OS-65/U operating
    >system and OSI extended BASIC in virtual ROM. Take a step back in time
    >and test your skills!
    >
    >You can also download the ORIGINAL OS-65D V3.3 disk images for your 8"
    >6502 floppy drives....one of the first disk-based operating systems for
    >microcomputers.
    >
    >http://osi.marks-lab.com/images/pamphlet5.jpg
    >This is our first home computer, the C2 Challenger II. Tape programmed
    >MUCH faster than Radio Crap's TRS-DOS with TV output you could plug into
    >any TV video port or use a TV RF modulator. No monitor to buy, if you
    >couldn't afford one.
    >
    >Wow...I'd forgotten our retail prices...(c;]
    >
    >Here's a great page to show our stuff:
    >http://technology.niagarac.on.ca/people/mcsele/OhioScientific.html
    >Look down this page and you'll see a two-cabinet computer with serial
    >terminal and big white 8" disk drive. That's the beast...The Challenger
    >III, the FIRST commercial microcomputer with a HARD DRIVE! The drive, a
    >74MB, 14", 4-platter monster stolen from the mini-computer market, was a
    >$6000 ADDON! The Challenger III had THREE processors, a Z-80 for CP/M,
    >a Motorola 6800 and our usual 6502 running OS-65/U with extended BASIC
    >that actually supported the hard disk drive noone else had. Want to
    >boot another OS? No problemo! Just flip the switch to choose your
    >processor and click the big button on the front to REBOOT from your
    >floppy!
    >
    >My partner and I wrote several BASIC systems and sold them as packages
    >to small business. Our vending machine accounting system was still in
    >use as late as 1989 in several places. OSI had a vendor for general
    >accounting on it. Sold quite a few of those. We wrote customized
    >database systems for specific others....trucking, inventory control,
    >etc. We made more money on support than sales. Computers were not a
    >do-it-yourselves plug-n-pray like today. We bought terminals for it
    >directly from a dumb terminal manufacturer 35 miles away in Columbia,
    >SC. We also sold the terminals as a dealer...ADDS Regent series, mostly
    >model 25...built like a tank.
    >
    >Being an OSI dealer was a hobby for our CB business, but became much
    >more serious as we learned how to be computer dealers with on-the-job
    >training. 1975 up....great fun! Seeley Communications, Sumter, SC. My
    >biggest sale was to Liggett and Myers Tobacco Company in NC. We sold
    >them twenty four C4P with dual floppies and monitors to set up a
    >computer training class for their employees. Boy did we smile coming
    >home THAT day driving back to Sumter!
    >
    >"Free set of tuning tools with every CB repair!".....(c;]


    Interesting stuff. I take it you're no fan of the TRS-80 :) The
    Atari computers were obviously graphics based. The 800xl that I owned
    could accept data via tape, cartridge, or disc (seperate box, if I
    remember correctly). And the programming was either through an
    assembler cartridge or Basic. Atari never did focus on the business
    market. That and Nintendo laid Atari to rest, unfortunately.

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    #10
  11. Larry Guest

    cavelamb <> wrote in
    news::

    > Larry wrote:
    >>
    >> My first computer, an S-100 bus homebrew, had 8K of memory, toggle
    >> switches for hexidecimal input and 6V light bulbs running on 5V for
    >> output.

    >
    >
    > MY first computer was a wire wrapped Z-80 with 1o24 bytes of ram
    > and NO rom.
    >
    > And a diode array "boot strap" program.
    >


    Wow...How did you see the output on that one?!

    --
    -----
    Larry

    Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the entrails
    of the last cleric.
    Larry, Jul 16, 2009
    #11
  12. Larry Guest

    "Calif Bill" <> wrote in
    news::

    > My first computer was an NCR 315 mainframe. Working for NCR and they
    > decided I need to go to school to repair them.
    >
    >
    >


    Unlike us, scrounging for basic parts and trying to squeeze the budget for
    a couple of 2114 RAM chips wasn't an issue, I suppose....(c;]


    --
    -----
    Larry

    Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the entrails
    of the last cleric.
    Larry, Jul 16, 2009
    #12
  13. Larry Guest

    wrote in news:d1ou55pr68dcirj6k63vnv2n9rbct5hukd@
    4ax.com:

    > Interesting stuff. I take it you're no fan of the TRS-80 :) The
    > Atari computers were obviously graphics based. The 800xl that I owned
    > could accept data via tape, cartridge, or disc (seperate box, if I
    > remember correctly). And the programming was either through an
    > assembler cartridge or Basic. Atari never did focus on the business
    > market. That and Nintendo laid Atari to rest, unfortunately.
    >
    > --
    >


    TRS-80 Model 1 wasn't much. Model 3 was better, with disk drives.

    At the Charleston Naval Shipyard's electronic shop, there was also an
    optical shop that repaired submarine periscopes and calibrated them.
    Some of the old scopes had parts that had to be fabricated. One of the
    pieces of equipment the optical shop had was a nice little precision
    gear machine you placed a gear blank into and 4 "programming gears" in
    the bottom to control the size and pitch put on the blank. This was all
    well and good but noone ever produced a proper SETUP MANUAL to tell you
    what gears to put in the 4 positions from the big set of gears the
    machine came with to make the gear you needed happen. So, it sat mostly
    unused, a lot of money wasted. There were SIX equations that had to be
    satisfied for the teeth on the programming gears to program it. This
    was NOT fun, even for the math informed of us. So, I got the crazy new
    fangled idea to LET THE COMPUTER do the heavy lifting and create a
    programming manual the poor math-deficient mechanics could look up the
    size and pitch and the book would tell them what gears to install where
    to make a new gear in a few minutes. WHAT A CONCEPT!...totally
    unheardof across the Navy. We weren't the only ones with this machine.

    The only computer I could steal to do this job was a Radio Shack Model 3
    with dual floppy drives and basic BASIC in ROM, some idiot had ordered
    by mistake thinking he was going to use it to store a library of tech
    manuals (about 280,000) on. There was, of course, no HARD DRIVE or MASS
    STORAGE for that....so it was pushed into a corner and covered up.

    I wrote a BASIC program that would sequence through every combinations
    of gears the machine had....and we didn't possess all the gears....plug
    these numbers into the SIX big equations and see if there was a match
    that would make a gear, any gear, also sequencing through all the blank
    sizes.....sort of working the problem out backward. If it found a
    match, it added a record to a simple database file (serial data?) and
    sent a formatted output to the little dot matrix printer, printing ONE
    line for each gear, so we wouldn't lose it if the worst happened...a
    crash.

    Sometimes the printer would hold up production because there were LOTS
    of combinations it would find resulting in gear after gear as fast as
    such a slow processor under TRS-DOS BASIC could run. Sometimes, it
    didn't print a line in an hour! To be able to tell if the program was
    running or something had crashed, we put an AM table radio next to the
    computer tuned to a spot on the dial where you could HEAR the processor
    grinding away like a throbbing headache, over and over, ad nauseum.

    After about a week and a half, a power failure in the shipyard crashed
    the whole thing, ruining my open disk database and the whole floppy it
    was written on....not good. The second "run" (more of a crawl on its
    belly) ran over TWO WEEKS before we, totally elated, saw the screen say:

    "END OF PROGRAM - YOU LOSE!"

    a funny I had put on the last line.

    I then, after making several disk copies for safety, wrote a printer
    program, again in BASIC, that would sort through the database and come
    out with a neatly written set of printed pages the guys running the
    machine though would be easiest to use. The data was sorted by gear
    size then subdivided by pitch. The printout was put in document
    protectors to keep the grease off them, and filled 7 volumes of large
    ring binders hand emblazoned with the Charleston Naval Shipyard logo and
    nicely labeled for all to see.

    The shipyard commander found out what I'd done and put me in for a nice
    bonus and commendation from NAVSEA through one of the cost saving
    programs. I'd saved Navy hundreds of thousands as we were making our
    own gears, not farming them out to some minority contractor to screw up.
    He also took a fresh copy of all the pages from a nice word processor
    printer, not my dot matrix, and sent them off to a government printing
    office for proper printing, again emblazoned with the shipyard logo,
    giving me proper credit for their creation. Those printed books were
    sent to every other shipyard with the machine and greatful replies came
    in. (I eventually had to rerun the program for ALL the gears, some we
    never had, as other yards did have them.)

    This all, of course, wasn't in my job description, so the local union
    kept filing complaints against me and the yard for anything like this I
    did. It made the union members who sat on their asses 8 hours a day
    producing as little as possible and refusing to do anything not in their
    job description for the mission...look bad, worse than usual. I never
    joined the union. SC is a "right to work state". The yard kept
    servicing the complaints, ignoring them of course. After initially
    wanting to kill the SOBs, I learned, also, to ignore them.

    --
    -----
    Larry

    Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the
    entrails of the last cleric.
    Larry, Jul 16, 2009
    #13
  14. In article <Xns9C4A7F9A07E03noonehomecom@74.209.131.13>,
    Larry <> wrote:

    > teletype terminal on
    > a phone line hooked to somebody's IBM 360.


    It wasn't a 360, it was the DEC-10 installed in the basement of the
    Health Sciences Building, at the University Of Washington, where Billy's
    Mother, was a Regent. I worked on the DataGeneral, that was used for a
    FrontEnd I/O Processor, on that DEC-10, and spent many a Night Hour
    playing StarTrek, and Adventure, with those "Boys", while minding the
    DataGeneral... Who knew then, what they would do, later in life......
    Those "Boys" cut their "Baby Teeth" beating up the DEC10's System
    Software, finding all the bugs, and crashing the System, from
    overloads... The DEC Guys, were amazed at what these "Boys" could come
    up with, in just a few months of messing around. I remember one
    remarking, " Their worth Millions, in free System Testing. Wish we had
    them back at the Plant." ah, the memories of years gone by....

    --
    Bruce in alaska
    add <path> after <fast> to reply
    Bruce in alaska, Jul 16, 2009
    #14
  15. On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:13:59 -0700, "Calif Bill"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >"cavelamb" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> Larry wrote:
    >>>
    >>> My first computer, an S-100 bus homebrew, had 8K of memory, toggle
    >>> switches for hexidecimal input and 6V light bulbs running on 5V for
    >>> output.

    >>
    >>
    >> MY first computer was a wire wrapped Z-80 with 1o24 bytes of ram
    >> and NO rom.
    >>
    >> And a diode array "boot strap" program.

    >
    >My first computer was an NCR 315 mainframe. Working for NCR and they
    >decided I need to go to school to repair them.


    Amateurs.

    Real computer geeks started with these. :>)

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800
    Short Wave Sportfishing, Jul 17, 2009
    #15
  16. Larry Guest

    cavelamb <> wrote in
    news::

    > Not all at the same time, of course.
    > Had to rearrange the diodes to reprogram it.
    > 32 sets, IIRC (32 instructions max :) ).
    >
    >


    I think NASA used that on Voyager!


    --
    -----
    Larry

    Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the entrails
    of the last cleric.
    Larry, Jul 17, 2009
    #16
  17. Larry Guest

    "Calif Bill" <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    > "Larry" <> wrote in message
    > news:Xns9C4AA7F27B964noonehomecom@74.209.131.13...
    >> "Calif Bill" <> wrote in
    >> news::
    >>
    >>> My first computer was an NCR 315 mainframe. Working for NCR and
    >>> they decided I need to go to school to repair them.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Unlike us, scrounging for basic parts and trying to squeeze the
    >> budget for a couple of 2114 RAM chips wasn't an issue, I
    >> suppose....(c;]
    >>
    >>
    >> --
    >> -----
    >> Larry
    >>
    >> Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the
    >> entrails
    >> of the last cleric.
    >>

    >
    > Ram chips? You jest. Was core memory. basic cabinet was 6' wide and
    > held 10K decimal of 12 bit plus parity memory. Was years until I saw
    > an IC. Was 2 flip flops on a board. A 8x10" board equivalent to a
    > 7474 chip. Was no LS about it. And we had to scrounge for parts at
    > times.
    >
    >
    >


    How much was NCR getting for a "CRAM" card? I bet those little magnetic
    strips weren't cheap!
    http://archive.computerhistory.org/resources/text/NCR/NCR.315.1960.10264
    6242.pdf

    I can just picture the poor technician sweating as the rod came around
    and dropped that unique magnetic strip into the vacuum chamber to be
    loaded onto the drum.....(c;]



    --
    -----
    Larry

    Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the
    entrails of the last cleric.
    Larry, Jul 17, 2009
    #17
  18. Larry Guest

    Short Wave Sportfishing <> wrote in
    news::

    > On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:13:59 -0700, "Calif Bill"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>"cavelamb" <> wrote in message
    >>news:...
    >>> Larry wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>> My first computer, an S-100 bus homebrew, had 8K of memory, toggle
    >>>> switches for hexidecimal input and 6V light bulbs running on 5V for
    >>>> output.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>> MY first computer was a wire wrapped Z-80 with 1o24 bytes of ram
    >>> and NO rom.
    >>>
    >>> And a diode array "boot strap" program.

    >>
    >>My first computer was an NCR 315 mainframe. Working for NCR and they
    >>decided I need to go to school to repair them.

    >
    > Amateurs.
    >
    > Real computer geeks started with these. :>)
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800
    >


    What? Who the hell could afford to BUY a whole kit?!


    --
    -----
    Larry

    Noone will be safe until the last lawyer has been strangled by the entrails
    of the last cleric.
    Larry, Jul 17, 2009
    #18
  19. "Larry" <> wrote in message
    news:Xns9C4AA7F27B964noonehomecom@74.209.131.13...
    > Unlike us, scrounging for basic parts and trying to squeeze the budget for
    > a couple of 2114 RAM chips wasn't an issue, I suppose....(c;]


    You had the 2114???? I had to make do with the 2111....

    Meindert
    Meindert Sprang, Jul 17, 2009
    #19
  20. NotNow Guest

    Short Wave Sportfishing wrote:
    > On Thu, 16 Jul 2009 13:13:59 -0700, "Calif Bill"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> "cavelamb" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >>> Larry wrote:
    >>>> My first computer, an S-100 bus homebrew, had 8K of memory, toggle
    >>>> switches for hexidecimal input and 6V light bulbs running on 5V for
    >>>> output.
    >>>
    >>> MY first computer was a wire wrapped Z-80 with 1o24 bytes of ram
    >>> and NO rom.
    >>>
    >>> And a diode array "boot strap" program.

    >> My first computer was an NCR 315 mainframe. Working for NCR and they
    >> decided I need to go to school to repair them.

    >
    > Amateurs.
    >
    > Real computer geeks started with these. :>)
    >
    > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Altair_8800


    My first was a 2k Sinclair that you hooked to the TV.
    NotNow, Jul 17, 2009
    #20

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