Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth timethis has been asked here)

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by Joerg, Oct 10, 2010.

  1. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    John Larkin wrote:
    > On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:58:40 -0700 (PDT), UAFEEUndergrad
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >> I'll keep this short, because I am sure this has been asked a billion
    >> times already.
    >> Does anyone know if the Art of Electronics 3rd edition will be
    >> released soon? I read there is a possibility of it being released
    >> early next year. I have also heard that the 2011 date is an urban
    >> legend. I have been looking over the AoE 2 and think it's amazing. I
    >> will buy one Art of Electronics Book, that much is clear, but I don't
    >> want to end up buying the second edition now, if the 3rd edition is
    >> going to be released before I graduate in 2012.
    >> Thanks for any info, and thanks for your patience.
    >>
    >> The Alaskan EE Undergrad
    >> Montz

    >
    > Hey, stay behind the learning curve and save a few bucks.
    >


    Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff _while_
    they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE sets one back
    less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for that.

    <shaking head>

    Ok, OTOH this brings me assignments so I won't complain :)

    Note to Benjamin (can't read your posts): I paid good money for the 1st
    edition of the Radar Handbook while fully aware of the fact that the 2nd
    edition was coming out in due course. Because I wanted to learn this
    stuff, right then and there, and not wait.

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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    Joerg, Oct 10, 2010
    #1
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  2. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Jay Ts wrote:
    > Jim Thompson wrote:
    >> Jay Ts wrote:
    >>> Joerg wrote:
    >>>> Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff _while_
    >>>> they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE sets one back
    >>>> less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for that.
    >>>>
    >>>> <shaking head>
    >>> Hey, don't be so hard. When I was in college, my main concern was having
    >>> enough money to buy food, and I couldn't always do that!

    >> You _can_ work your way thru college.

    >
    > Speak for yourself, Jim!
    >
    >> While I had a tuition, room and
    >> board scholarship, I had to work for books, etc. First year I washed
    >> dishes :-( After that I found a technician job in MIT Building 20.

    >
    > I washed dishes, too! And later worked for the Computer
    > Science Department designing CAD software and IC layout.
    >


    I skipped the washing dishes kind of work. But I did some rather
    dangerous jobs before getting my degree. The upside was that those paid
    rather well.


    > But for me, it was actually against the rules at Caltech.



    Then the rules are wrong.


    > I did it anyway, but made very little money, and it took
    > time away from studying, so it hurt my grades. ...



    I did the same, made about $6/h or so, in the 80's. Not CAD and layout
    but board level design. Yes, it did hurt my grades but it was one of the
    best decisions I ever made at university, to actually build stuff, make
    stuff happen. You can't learn that in classes.


    > There was a reason it was against the rules -- it didn't work.
    >


    No, it's wrong rules. Seriously, nobody ever looked at my grades after I
    had my masters :)

    [...]

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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    Joerg, Oct 11, 2010
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  3. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Phil Hobbs wrote:
    > John Larkin wrote:
    >> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 09:13:26 -0700 (PDT), Jim MacArthur
    >> <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>> The other must-have book is Phil's:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.amazon.com/Building-Electro-Optical-Systems-Making-Applied...
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>> even if the cover is a tad garish.
    >>>>
    >>>> John
    >>> Hey John, couldn't agree more about Hobbs. I'm wondering about
    >>> whether to get the 2nd edition -- the one with the garish cover. Is
    >>> there a significant amount of new material? Might just get it anyway;
    >>> folks with Phil's sense of humor need all the support they can get...
    >>>

    >>
    >> I haven't compared them side-by-side. Maybe Phil will tell us about
    >> the changes.
    >>
    >> The cover thing isn't his fault.
    >>
    >> John
    >>
    >>

    >
    > The books have nearly the same number of pages, but they shrank the
    > font. At the same font size, the second edition has about 100 pages of
    > new material, including things I learned in the interim and additional
    > explanations and background material for some sections that were pitched
    > at too high a level initially. ...



    But hopefully they let you keep the mention of John 6:40. I liked that.

    [...]

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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    Joerg, Oct 11, 2010
    #3
  4. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    John Larkin wrote:
    > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:03:35 -0700, Joerg <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Jay Ts wrote:
    >>> Jim Thompson wrote:
    >>>> Jay Ts wrote:
    >>>>> Joerg wrote:
    >>>>>> Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff _while_
    >>>>>> they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE sets one back
    >>>>>> less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for that.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> <shaking head>
    >>>>> Hey, don't be so hard. When I was in college, my main concern was having
    >>>>> enough money to buy food, and I couldn't always do that!
    >>>> You _can_ work your way thru college.
    >>> Speak for yourself, Jim!
    >>>
    >>>> While I had a tuition, room and
    >>>> board scholarship, I had to work for books, etc. First year I washed
    >>>> dishes :-( After that I found a technician job in MIT Building 20.
    >>> I washed dishes, too! And later worked for the Computer
    >>> Science Department designing CAD software and IC layout.
    >>>

    >> I skipped the washing dishes kind of work. But I did some rather
    >> dangerous jobs before getting my degree. The upside was that those paid
    >> rather well.
    >>

    >
    > I always designed electronics. I did try real work for a couple of
    > weekends and didn't care for it. When I was a freshman at Tulane, I
    > had a tuition scholarship, and TANO corporation put me on salary for
    > over $400 a month, if you can imagine such a sum. Flight hardware for
    > the S1B and the C5A, marine automation, SCADA, all sorts of stuff. I
    > had my own computers (HP9100, PDP-8, PDP-11) before the Tulane EE
    > department had one. Had it made, with my $80 apartment and 25 cent
    > draft beer and 85 cent fried oyster po-boys.
    >


    I think we also had a PDP-11 type computer on the oil rig. A special
    ruggedized one, conformal coating on the boards and such. The job was
    sometimes hazardous. Mounting little explosive charges into core sampler
    takers and so on. One guy lost half his neck doing that (but lived).


    > The EE faculty at Tulane, mostly jerks, disapproved of students
    > working or marrying. And presumably eating.
    >


    Maybe they were concerned about cholesterol levels from all those fried
    oysters :)

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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    Joerg, Oct 11, 2010
    #4
  5. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Jay Ts wrote:
    > Joerg wrote:
    >> Jay Ts wrote:
    >>> Jim Thompson wrote:
    >>>> Jay Ts wrote:
    >>>>> Joerg wrote:
    >>>>>> Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff
    >>>>>> _while_ they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE
    >>>>>> sets one back less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for
    >>>>>> that.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> <shaking head>
    >>>>> Hey, don't be so hard. When I was in college, my main concern was
    >>>>> having enough money to buy food, and I couldn't always do that!
    >>>> You _can_ work your way thru college.
    >>> Speak for yourself, Jim!
    >>>
    >>>> While I had a tuition, room and
    >>>> board scholarship, I had to work for books, etc. First year I washed
    >>>> dishes :-( After that I found a technician job in MIT Building 20.
    >>> I washed dishes, too! And later worked for the Computer Science
    >>> Department designing CAD software and IC layout.
    >>> But for me, it was actually against the rules at Caltech.

    >> Then the rules are wrong.

    >
    > In your opinion, and you know very little about the facts
    > of the matter. ...



    My opinion is based on experience, and that's been over 25 years now. I
    found that folks who had a healthy dose of hands-on electronics design
    skills by the time they graduated were often more mature when it came to
    designing stuff on their job.


    > ... And the rule was wrong in my opinion, too,
    > at the time. I broke it because I was desperate, and as
    > far as I could tell, I had no choice.
    >
    > What I was told about that rule is that it was made because the
    > administration knew that due to Caltech's exceptionally stressful
    > academic workload, it was not considered humanly possible to maintain
    > passing grades there (that is, remain in "good academic standing")
    > while also maintaining any kind of job. Too many students who tried
    > it had failed out of school as a result. It was said that the rule
    > was implemented for the students, not against them. As I recall,
    > it applied only to freshmen and sophomores.
    >


    Well, in the first couple of years they didn't exactly encourage us
    either and you would not be accepted as a tech at one of the institutes
    that early. I was, but with a special exemption and because I knew much
    of the stuff they taught us already. But there was no explicit
    discouragement regarding work. In fact, my school required a minimum of
    three months industrial experience before you were allowed to sit for
    any exam after the initial two years. During the 2nd half of your
    studies you had to accrue another mandatory three months in industry but
    this time in a hardcore high-tech environment. Oh, and you had to find
    those intern positions on your own, the university did not provide any
    sort of exchange for that (other than peg boards in the cantinas,
    bring-your-own-pegs). That was a very good rule.


    > I don't think it was that particular rule that was the problem,
    > but rather, an academic system that was apparently designed
    > to torture brilliant minds more than to help the students get
    > a good start in life.
    >


    Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
    people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
    practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
    environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we used
    to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't even own
    a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many are totally
    lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...


    > And BTW, I also learned more useful things from my job than
    > I did in classes! Aside from paying for food and other necessities,
    > maybe that's one of the reasons why it was so important for me
    > to have it. That job actually led me directly to getting a
    > job at JPL, and later, my first job in the "real world".
    >


    Excellent. Most of my real know-how initially came from tons of ham
    radio projects so I went into university with a pretty sound grasp WRT
    designing transistor level circuits. Many of our ultra-achievers who
    sported GPA lots better than mine weren't even able to repair their TV
    sets. They probably still aren't.

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

    "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
    Use another domain or send PM.
    Joerg, Oct 11, 2010
    #5
  6. Joerg

    Guest

    Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 08:59:50 -0700, Jim Thompson
    <> wrote:

    >On 11 Oct 2010 00:30:40 GMT, Jay Ts <> wrote:
    >
    >>Joerg wrote:
    >>> John Larkin wrote:
    >>>> UAFEEUndergrad <> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> I'll keep this short, because I am sure this has been asked a billion
    >>>>> times already.
    >>>>> Does anyone know if the Art of Electronics 3rd edition will be
    >>>>> released soon?

    >>
    >>No. :p
    >>
    >>>>> I read there is a possibility of it being released
    >>>>> early next year. I have also heard that the 2011 date is an urban
    >>>>> legend. I have been looking over the AoE 2 and think it's amazing. I
    >>>>> will buy one Art of Electronics Book, that much is clear, but I don't
    >>>>> want to end up buying the second edition now, if the 3rd edition is
    >>>>> going to be released before I graduate in 2012. Thanks for any info,
    >>>>> and thanks for your patience.
    >>>>>
    >>>>> The Alaskan EE Undergrad
    >>>>> Montz
    >>>>
    >>>> Hey, stay behind the learning curve and save a few bucks.
    >>>>
    >>> Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff _while_
    >>> they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE sets one back
    >>> less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for that.
    >>>
    >>> <shaking head>

    >>
    >>Hey, don't be so hard. When I was in college, my main concern
    >>was having enough money to buy food, and I couldn't always
    >>do that! I had already taken out "major loans" to pay
    >>for tuition, room and board, and textbooks, etc., but it wasn't
    >>enough to actually pay for all of those things. I had to
    >>watch every dollar, and even doing my best, I ran out of money
    >>more than once and could not get food to eat.
    >>
    >>If he is considering buying a copy of AoE at all, he
    >>is doing quite well, IMO.
    >>
    >>> Note to Benjamin (can't read your posts): I paid good money for the 1st
    >>> edition of the Radar Handbook while fully aware of the fact that the 2nd
    >>> edition was coming out in due course. Because I wanted to learn this
    >>> stuff, right then and there, and not wait.

    >>
    >>Good attitude!
    >>
    >>How about this: Buy a used copy of the 2nd edition off Amazon.com,
    >>and read it while waiting for the 3rd edition. Then you can sell
    >>it there and "upgrade" when (or _if_???) the 3rd edition is published.
    >>I checked just now, and there are several copies available used
    >>for about $66.
    >>
    >>If you are serious about learning electronics, this book is an
    >>absolute "must have". So if you can cough up $66 plus shipping
    >>(without dying from hunger :), just do it.
    >>
    >>Jay Ts

    >
    >You _can_ work your way thru college. While I had a tuition, room and
    >board scholarship, I had to work for books, etc. First year I washed
    >dishes :-( After that I found a technician job in MIT Building 20.


    I had a tuition scholarship my Senior year but paid for everything else (well,
    between the two of us ;).
    , Oct 12, 2010
    #6
  7. Joerg

    Guest

    Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:09:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
    <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:03:35 -0700, Joerg <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>Jay Ts wrote:
    >>> Jim Thompson wrote:
    >>>> Jay Ts wrote:
    >>>>> Joerg wrote:
    >>>>>> Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff _while_
    >>>>>> they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE sets one back
    >>>>>> less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for that.
    >>>>>>
    >>>>>> <shaking head>
    >>>>> Hey, don't be so hard. When I was in college, my main concern was having
    >>>>> enough money to buy food, and I couldn't always do that!
    >>>> You _can_ work your way thru college.
    >>>
    >>> Speak for yourself, Jim!
    >>>
    >>>> While I had a tuition, room and
    >>>> board scholarship, I had to work for books, etc. First year I washed
    >>>> dishes :-( After that I found a technician job in MIT Building 20.
    >>>
    >>> I washed dishes, too! And later worked for the Computer
    >>> Science Department designing CAD software and IC layout.
    >>>

    >>
    >>I skipped the washing dishes kind of work. But I did some rather
    >>dangerous jobs before getting my degree. The upside was that those paid
    >>rather well.
    >>
    >>
    >>> But for me, it was actually against the rules at Caltech.

    >>
    >>
    >>Then the rules are wrong.
    >>
    >>
    >>> I did it anyway, but made very little money, and it took
    >>> time away from studying, so it hurt my grades. ...

    >>
    >>
    >>I did the same, made about $6/h or so, in the 80's.

    >
    >Youngsters... I made $1.90 (1958-1962)


    I made $1.50 (1970), until they figured out that even a state university had
    to pay the federal minimum ($1.60). My junior and senior years I made about
    $.25 over minimum ($2.00-$2.25). The experience got me my first job, when
    most weren't even getting interviews.
    , Oct 12, 2010
    #7
  8. Joerg

    Guest

    Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:51:24 -0700, John Larkin
    <> wrote:

    >On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:46:29 -0700, Joerg <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>
    >>Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
    >>people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
    >>practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
    >>environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we used
    >>to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't even own
    >>a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many are totally
    >>lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...

    >
    >Heck, those ancient analog scopes confuse me. All the traces are the
    >same color!


    I'm still in the habit of offsetting each trace a division or three.
    , Oct 12, 2010
    #8
  9. Joerg

    Rich Grise Guest

    Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 20:48:03 +0000, Jay Ts wrote:
    > Jim Thompson wrote:


    >> Or you're not as good a student.

    >
    > Excuse me. What exactly was that supposed to mean?
    >

    Thompson's probably having a PMS attach or hot flushes or something.

    I think he needs a Pamprin. ;-)

    Cheers!
    Rich
    Rich Grise, Oct 12, 2010
    #9
  10. Joerg

    Rich Grise Guest

    Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:48:26 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
    > On 11 Oct 2010 20:48:03 GMT, Jay Ts <> wrote:
    >>Jim Thompson wrote:
    >>>
    >>> Or you're not as good a student.

    >>
    >>Excuse me. What exactly was that supposed to mean?

    >
    > What he's telling you is that he's a lot smarter than you are. He does
    > that a lot.
    >

    Is it really smarts, or is he simply an analog savant? He sure doesn't
    seem very smart about anything else.

    Cheers!
    Rich
    Rich Grise, Oct 12, 2010
    #10
  11. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    John Larkin wrote:
    > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:46:29 -0700, Joerg <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
    >> people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
    >> practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
    >> environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we used
    >> to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't even own
    >> a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many are totally
    >> lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...

    >
    > Heck, those ancient analog scopes confuse me. All the traces are the
    > same color!
    >


    No, one of the scopes is blue, another green, then one which is
    blueish-greenish :)

    Makes me wonder why they never built a scope CRT that glows fire engine
    red, or some other color.

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

    "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
    Use another domain or send PM.
    Joerg, Oct 12, 2010
    #11
  12. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    John Larkin wrote:
    > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:24:04 -0700, Joerg <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> John Larkin wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:46:29 -0700, Joerg <>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
    >>>> people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
    >>>> practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
    >>>> environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we used
    >>>> to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't even own
    >>>> a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many are totally
    >>>> lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...
    >>> Heck, those ancient analog scopes confuse me. All the traces are the
    >>> same color!
    >>>

    >> No, one of the scopes is blue, another green, then one which is
    >> blueish-greenish :)

    >
    > And when you stop triggering, the *trace*goes*away* !!!
    >


    No, no, it's still there. You just have to make the room really dark.
    Seriously, once I slept in the lab on an air mattress. What's this eerie
    blue glow here? Turns out it was the Tek 7704 that I had used a few
    hours earlier. My last trace was still visible and the thing had been
    turned off for hours.


    >> Makes me wonder why they never built a scope CRT that glows fire engine
    >> red, or some other color.

    >
    > Bad writing rate, mostly.
    >
    > I liked the P7 radar phosphor, fast blue + slow yellow. I used some
    > Tek scopes that had it. Here's a P7 tube, aircraft radar display,
    > glows in the dark nicely...
    >
    > ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/4FP7.jpg
    >
    > There was a dark trace phosphor, too. I forget the P-number.
    >


    I also liked P7 a lot.

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

    "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
    Use another domain or send PM.
    Joerg, Oct 12, 2010
    #12
  13. Joerg

    Rich Grise Guest

    Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:24:04 -0700, Joerg wrote:
    > John Larkin wrote:
    >> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:46:29 -0700, Joerg <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
    >>> people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
    >>> practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
    >>> environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we used
    >>> to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't even
    >>> own a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many are
    >>> totally lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...

    >>
    >> Heck, those ancient analog scopes confuse me. All the traces are the
    >> same color!
    >>

    > No, one of the scopes is blue, another green, then one which is
    > blueish-greenish :)
    >
    > Makes me wonder why they never built a scope CRT that glows fire engine
    > red, or some other color.


    They hadn't discovered rare earth phosphors yet? ;-)

    I'd think that nowadays, with digital scopes all over the place, that you
    could pretty much get any color you want.

    Does anybody know that? Is there a selection of trace colors on digital
    scopes?

    Thanks,
    Rich
    Rich Grise, Oct 12, 2010
    #13
  14. Joerg

    Rich Grise Guest

    Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:10:46 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
    > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 18:46:18 -0700, Rich Grise <>
    >>On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:24:04 -0700, Joerg wrote:
    >>> John Larkin wrote:
    >>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:46:29 -0700, Joerg <>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
    >>>>> people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
    >>>>> practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
    >>>>> environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we
    >>>>> used to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't
    >>>>> even own a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many
    >>>>> are totally lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...
    >>>>
    >>>> Heck, those ancient analog scopes confuse me. All the traces are the
    >>>> same color!
    >>>>
    >>> No, one of the scopes is blue, another green, then one which is
    >>> blueish-greenish :)
    >>>
    >>> Makes me wonder why they never built a scope CRT that glows fire engine
    >>> red, or some other color.

    >>
    >>They hadn't discovered rare earth phosphors yet? ;-)
    >>
    >>I'd think that nowadays, with digital scopes all over the place, that you
    >>could pretty much get any color you want.
    >>
    >>Does anybody know that? Is there a selection of trace colors on digital
    >>scopes?

    >
    > The Tek 11801C sampling scopes allowed all the colors to be selected,
    > traces, menus, graticules, everything. And every color could be tuned for
    > hue and saturation. Those scopes had a magnetic-deflection shadow-mask
    > CRT.
    >
    > The LCD scopes that we have don't allow changing the trace colors.
    >

    Hmph. I'd have thought that'd be a "no-brainer."

    Thanks,
    Rich
    Rich Grise, Oct 12, 2010
    #14
  15. Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    John Larkin <> writes:

    > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 18:46:18 -0700, Rich Grise <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >>On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:24:04 -0700, Joerg wrote:
    >>> John Larkin wrote:
    >>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:46:29 -0700, Joerg <>
    >>>> wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>> Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
    >>>>> people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
    >>>>> practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
    >>>>> environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we used
    >>>>> to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't even
    >>>>> own a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many are
    >>>>> totally lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...
    >>>>
    >>>> Heck, those ancient analog scopes confuse me. All the traces are the
    >>>> same color!
    >>>>
    >>> No, one of the scopes is blue, another green, then one which is
    >>> blueish-greenish :)
    >>>
    >>> Makes me wonder why they never built a scope CRT that glows fire engine
    >>> red, or some other color.

    >>
    >>They hadn't discovered rare earth phosphors yet? ;-)
    >>
    >>I'd think that nowadays, with digital scopes all over the place, that you
    >>could pretty much get any color you want.
    >>
    >>Does anybody know that? Is there a selection of trace colors on digital
    >>scopes?
    >>
    >>Thanks,
    >>Rich

    >
    > The Tek 11801C sampling scopes allowed all the colors to be selected,
    > traces, menus, graticules, everything. And every color could be tuned
    > for hue and saturation. Those scopes had a magnetic-deflection
    > shadow-mask CRT.


    I wonder, did they design their own colour TV tube? Wouldn't put it past
    them :)

    > The LCD scopes that we have don't allow changing the trace colors.


    Lots of them do though. I was trying out a Yokogawa model and changed
    them to match the TDS3054 colours I was used too!

    Joerg could have made every channel bluey-green to make him feel
    comfortable with it :)

    --

    John Devereux
    John Devereux, Oct 12, 2010
    #15
  16. Joerg

    JW Guest

    Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:54:40 -0700 Rich Grise <>
    wrote in Message id: <>:

    >On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 21:10:46 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
    >> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 18:46:18 -0700, Rich Grise <>
    >>>On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:24:04 -0700, Joerg wrote:
    >>>> John Larkin wrote:
    >>>>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:46:29 -0700, Joerg <>
    >>>>> wrote:
    >>>>>
    >>>>>> Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
    >>>>>> people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
    >>>>>> practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
    >>>>>> environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we
    >>>>>> used to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't
    >>>>>> even own a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many
    >>>>>> are totally lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...
    >>>>>
    >>>>> Heck, those ancient analog scopes confuse me. All the traces are the
    >>>>> same color!
    >>>>>
    >>>> No, one of the scopes is blue, another green, then one which is
    >>>> blueish-greenish :)
    >>>>
    >>>> Makes me wonder why they never built a scope CRT that glows fire engine
    >>>> red, or some other color.
    >>>
    >>>They hadn't discovered rare earth phosphors yet? ;-)
    >>>
    >>>I'd think that nowadays, with digital scopes all over the place, that you
    >>>could pretty much get any color you want.
    >>>
    >>>Does anybody know that? Is there a selection of trace colors on digital
    >>>scopes?

    >>
    >> The Tek 11801C sampling scopes allowed all the colors to be selected,
    >> traces, menus, graticules, everything. And every color could be tuned for
    >> hue and saturation. Those scopes had a magnetic-deflection shadow-mask
    >> CRT.
    >>
    >> The LCD scopes that we have don't allow changing the trace colors.
    >>

    >Hmph. I'd have thought that'd be a "no-brainer."


    Not when the colored knobs for each channel correspond to the trace.
    JW, Oct 12, 2010
    #16
  17. Joerg

    JW Guest

    Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 17:24:04 -0700 Joerg <> wrote
    in Message id: <>:

    >John Larkin wrote:
    >> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:46:29 -0700, Joerg <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
    >>> people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
    >>> practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
    >>> environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we used
    >>> to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't even own
    >>> a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many are totally
    >>> lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...

    >>
    >> Heck, those ancient analog scopes confuse me. All the traces are the
    >> same color!
    >>

    >
    >No, one of the scopes is blue, another green, then one which is
    >blueish-greenish :)
    >
    >Makes me wonder why they never built a scope CRT that glows fire engine
    >red, or some other color.


    Lecroy 93XX scopes used orange phosphor.
    JW, Oct 12, 2010
    #17
  18. Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    John Larkin <> writes:

    > On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:56:45 +0100, John Devereux
    > <> wrote:
    >
    >>John Larkin <> writes:


    [...]

    >>>
    >>> The Tek 11801C sampling scopes allowed all the colors to be selected,
    >>> traces, menus, graticules, everything. And every color could be tuned
    >>> for hue and saturation. Those scopes had a magnetic-deflection
    >>> shadow-mask CRT.

    >>
    >>I wonder, did they design their own colour TV tube? Wouldn't put it past
    >>them :)

    >
    > Probably. Here's a (bad) pic. It's a magnetic deflection *vertical*
    > raster scan.
    >
    > ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/T564_channels.jpg


    It's not just a "normal" raster with the whole thing rotated 90 degrees?

    > I actually prefer my mono 11802:
    >
    > ftp://jjlarkin.lmi.net/TDR_0.1_slow.JPG
    >
    > because it's much sharper and photographs better.


    Nice.

    I have a 11801B. It has just developed a "TV" type fault, where the left
    hand 1/2 inch of display is sort of squashed up and flickers.


    [...]


    --

    John Devereux
    John Devereux, Oct 12, 2010
    #18
  19. Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth time this has been asked here)

    "Joel Koltner" <> writes:

    > "JW" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >>>> The LCD scopes that we have don't allow changing the trace colors.
    >>>Hmph. I'd have thought that'd be a "no-brainer."

    >> Not when the colored knobs for each channel correspond to the trace.

    >
    > Time to patent the idea of putting an RGB LED in the center of the
    > knobs that changes its color to match the trace on the screen?


    Hi Joel,

    I think the new Rohde & Schwarz scopes do that :)

    > Heck, given that most probes today are "smart" with, e.g., a serial
    > interface back to the scope anyway, you could put that LED down in the
    > tip of the probe too.
    >
    > That could actually be useful...


    They don't do that though.

    What they *do* have, probe-wise, is a DVM function to provide an
    accurate on-screen display of the DC signal level.

    They're really nice all round, actually.

    --

    John Devereux
    John Devereux, Oct 12, 2010
    #19
  20. Joerg

    Joerg Guest

    Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth timethishas been asked here)

    Michael A. Terrell wrote:
    > Joerg wrote:
    >> John Larkin wrote:
    >>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:46:29 -0700, Joerg <>
    >>> wrote:
    >>>
    >>>> Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
    >>>> people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
    >>>> practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
    >>>> environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we used
    >>>> to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't even own
    >>>> a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many are totally
    >>>> lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...
    >>> Heck, those ancient analog scopes confuse me. All the traces are the
    >>> same color!
    >>>

    >> No, one of the scopes is blue, another green, then one which is
    >> blueish-greenish :)
    >>
    >> Makes me wonder why they never built a scope CRT that glows fire engine
    >> red, or some other color.
    >>

    >
    >
    > You've never seen an orange CRT?
    >


    Yes, but only in aircraft, not in electronics labs.

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

    "gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
    Use another domain or send PM.
    Joerg, Oct 12, 2010
    #20
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