Raymarine S1/ST6002 and NMEA

Discussion in 'Boat Electronics' started by Bjarke M. Christensen, Apr 25, 2009.

  1. Just got a S1 wheelpilot for my ship. Trying to plan the connections to the
    other instruments

    The S1 computer has got NMEA input and output, but there is also an input on
    the back of the ST6002 control head.

    Whats the difference between these two inputs ? If any ?? Can I use both and
    maybe eliminate the need for a NMEA mux ?

    Bjarke

    --
    Maxi 999 - 'Escape' - Hundige
    Bjarke M. Christensen, Apr 25, 2009
    #1
  2. The manual gives a fine list of sentences supported, but it say "on the S1
    computer". There not a single word on the capabilities of the st6002 input
    .....

    Bjarke

    --
    Maxi 999 - 'Escape' - Hundige



    "Geoff Schultz" <geoff"at"@geoffschultz.org> wrote in message
    news:Xns9BF8459E7FE48geoffschultz@216.196.97.131...
    > "Bjarke M. Christensen" <Bjarke(snabel-a)grevestrand(punkt)dk> wrote in
    > news:49f2d734$0$90276$:
    >
    >> Just got a S1 wheelpilot for my ship. Trying to plan the connections
    >> to the other instruments
    >>
    >> The S1 computer has got NMEA input and output, but there is also an
    >> input on the back of the ST6002 control head.
    >>
    >> Whats the difference between these two inputs ? If any ?? Can I use
    >> both and maybe eliminate the need for a NMEA mux ?
    >>
    >> Bjarke

    >
    > I have a ST6001, and it handles the following sentences:
    >
    > Information NMEA 0183 data
    > Course Over Ground VTG, RMC, RMA
    > Speed Over Ground VTG, RMC, RMA
    > Cross Track Error APB, APA, RMB, XTE
    > Bearing to Waypoint APB, BWR, BWC, RMB
    > Distance to Waypoint BWR, BWC, RMB
    > Waypoint Number APB, APA, BWR, BWC, RMB
    > Apparent Wind Speed VWR
    > Apparent Wind Angle VWR, MWV
    > Speed Through Water VHW
    > Depth DBT
    > Water Temperature MTW
    >
    > Note: The ST6001+ only decodes the last four characters of waypoint names.
    > This means that the last four characters of long waypoint names must be
    > unique for the waypoint advance function to work.
    >
    > I had hoped to use the ST6001 NMEA input to connect an NMEA based GPS
    > receiver, but it doesn't handle the GGA, GLL, GSA or GSL sentences...
    >
    > -- Geoff
    > www.GeoffSchultz.org
    Bjarke M. Christensen, Apr 25, 2009
    #2
  3. Read a lot of manuals and web pages last night. The ST6002 display
    apparently have the ability to display navigational messages on the display.
    The manual says "shows heading, locked course and navigational data, and up
    to 7 data pages". Combined with your information that they typical dont
    relay NMEA sentences on the seatalk bus, one could get the thesis, that you
    have to supply the GPS/Navigator NMEA to both. To the S1 computer in order
    to stear on the navigational data and to the display to (manually) browse
    through the data on the display.

    Would that make sense or is that to negative on Raymarine ??

    Bjarke


    --
    Maxi 999 - 'Escape' - Hundige



    "Geoff Schultz" <geoff"at"@geoffschultz.org> wrote in message
    news:Xns9BF8D5D07B879geoffschultz@216.196.97.131...
    > "Bjarke M. Christensen" <Bjarke(snabel-a)grevestrand(punkt)dk> wrote in
    > news:49f37d06$0$90265$:
    >
    >> The manual gives a fine list of sentences supported, but it say "on
    >> the S1 computer". There not a single word on the capabilities of the
    >> st6002 input ....
    >>
    >> Bjarke

    >
    > My experience is that the list of supported sentence is all that the
    > st6002
    > will support. It will not echo/translate them into SeaTalk sentences.
    >
    > -- Geoff
    > www.GeoffSchultz.org
    Bjarke M. Christensen, Apr 26, 2009
    #3
  4. Bjarke M. Christensen

    Rick Morel Guest

    On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 07:48:00 +0200, "Bjarke M. Christensen"
    <Bjarke(snabel-a)grevestrand(punkt)dk> wrote:

    >Read a lot of manuals and web pages last night. The ST6002 display
    >apparently have the ability to display navigational messages on the display.
    >The manual says "shows heading, locked course and navigational data, and up
    >to 7 data pages". Combined with your information that they typical dont
    >relay NMEA sentences on the seatalk bus, one could get the thesis, that you
    >have to supply the GPS/Navigator NMEA to both. To the S1 computer in order
    >to stear on the navigational data and to the display to (manually) browse
    >through the data on the display.
    >
    >Would that make sense or is that to negative on Raymarine ??
    >
    >Bjarke


    No, you only have to supply NMEA to one. I have the S1, with the GPS
    connected to the computer. The display shows the GPS NMEA info, SOG,
    XTE, etc.

    My experience with Raymarine, about 10 years, has always been that
    NMEA data fed in will propagate along the Seatalk as well.

    Rick Morel
    Rick Morel, Apr 26, 2009
    #4
  5. Anyway... it indicates that I should opt for feeding the NMEA to the S1 even
    if the GPS is next to the ST6002. But's it's OK. I will need to bring the
    NMEA signal back to the main wiring closet for other purposes anyway.

    Thanks for your input.

    --
    Maxi 999 - 'Escape' - Hundige



    "Geoff Schultz" <geoff"at"@geoffschultz.org> wrote in message
    news:Xns9BF96087AAAgeoffschultz@216.196.97.131...
    > Rick Morel <rmorel@m*o*r*e*l*r.com> wrote in
    > news:p:
    >
    >> My experience with Raymarine, about 10 years, has always been that
    >> NMEA data fed in will propagate along the Seatalk as well.
    >>
    >> Rick Morel

    >
    > I also thought this, but was told by an electronics installer that the
    > st600x displays don't translate the NMEA data into SeaTalk. They only
    > display it. The course computer does provide the translation. I have no
    > direct experience with this, so I'd be interested in having this info
    > verified.
    >
    > -- Geoff
    > www.GeoffSchultz.org
    Bjarke M. Christensen, Apr 26, 2009
    #5
  6. Bjarke M. Christensen

    Rick Morel Guest

    On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 08:29:21 -0500, Geoff Schultz
    <geoff"at"@geoffschultz.org> wrote:

    >Rick Morel <rmorel@m*o*r*e*l*r.com> wrote in
    >news:p:
    >
    >> My experience with Raymarine, about 10 years, has always been that
    >> NMEA data fed in will propagate along the Seatalk as well.
    >>
    >> Rick Morel

    >
    >I also thought this, but was told by an electronics installer that the
    >st600x displays don't translate the NMEA data into SeaTalk. They only
    >display it. The course computer does provide the translation. I have no
    >direct experience with this, so I'd be interested in having this info
    >verified.
    >
    >-- Geoff



    I'm not aboard "home" at the moment, but I checked the manuals on my
    computer:
    ---------------------------------------------------
    The S1 has a single NMEA input/output to
    receive and transmit information from
    NMEA equipment.

    S2 and S3 systems have two sets of NMEA
    inputs/outputs to receive and transmit
    information from NMEA equipment.
    --------------------------------------------------

    You can also use the SmartPilot with any navigator or wind instrument
    that transmits National Marine Electronics Association (NMEA) 0183
    data.
    The SmartPilot control unit can display SeaTalk and NMEA instrument
    data in a user-defined selection of data pages.

    If you have equipment on your boat that transmits or receives NMEA
    0183 data (e.g. GPS), you can connect this equipment to the
    SmartPilot. NMEA equipment can be connected in any combination of
    these ways:
    • using the SmartPilot computer NMEA input/output
    • using the NMEA input on the back of the SmartPilot controller.
    (Refer to the Controller handbook for NMEA data details)
    • using the SeaTalk/NMEA interface (part number: E85001) to convert
    the NMEA data to SeaTalk data
    ------------------------------------------------------------------

    I just remembered my GPS line ran next to the computer and hooking it
    up there.

    Anyway that last paragraph above seems to say it doesn't matter which
    input you use, the unit will use the data when in the "Track" mode and
    will display the data.

    Rick
    Rick Morel, Apr 26, 2009
    #6
  7. Bjarke M. Christensen

    Rick Morel Guest

    On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:45:52 -0500, Geoff Schultz
    <geoff"at"@geoffschultz.org> wrote:

    >> Anyway that last paragraph above seems to say it doesn't matter which
    >> input you use, the unit will use the data when in the "Track" mode and
    >> will display the data.
    >>
    >> Rick

    >
    >Well, that's the way that I would like to think that it works, but I'm
    >still not convinced. As it says, "The SmartPilot control unit can
    >display SeaTalk and NMEA instrument data in a user-defined selection of
    >data pages."
    >
    >I know that it can display the data, but I didn't think that the ST600x
    >controller converts it to SeaTalk. I just have this feeling that
    >RayMarine wants to see you yet another box to do the conversion, as
    >mentioned in the last bullet above (SeaTalk/NMEA interface).
    >
    >-- Geoff


    I'm kind of getting lost here. I have a Garmin GPS connected via NMEA.
    The S1 uses the GPS info to go to a waypoint or follow a route, and
    displays the info from the GPS - goto a waypoint on the GPS, hit
    "Track" on the S1, it beeps and gives a turn direction and course, hit
    "Track" again and the S1 steers to the waypoint or follows the route.

    The only connection between the S1 computer and controller is Seatalk,
    so it must be converting NMEA to Seatalk.

    Rick
    Rick Morel, Apr 27, 2009
    #7
  8. Is the NMEA signal from your Garmin feed (physical) to the ST6002 dispaly or
    to the S1 computer ?


    Bjarke

    --
    Maxi 999 - 'Escape' - Hundige



    "Rick Morel" <rmorel@m*o*r*e*l*r.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sun, 26 Apr 2009 12:45:52 -0500, Geoff Schultz

    snip
    >
    > I'm kind of getting lost here. I have a Garmin GPS connected via NMEA.
    > The S1 uses the GPS info to go to a waypoint or follow a route, and
    > displays the info from the GPS - goto a waypoint on the GPS, hit
    > "Track" on the S1, it beeps and gives a turn direction and course, hit
    > "Track" again and the S1 steers to the waypoint or follows the route.
    >
    > The only connection between the S1 computer and controller is Seatalk,
    > so it must be converting NMEA to Seatalk.
    >
    > Rick
    Bjarke M. Christensen, Apr 27, 2009
    #8
  9. Bjarke M. Christensen

    Rick Morel Guest

    On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 22:04:44 +0200, "Bjarke M. Christensen"
    <Bjarke(snabel-a)grevestrand(punkt)dk> wrote:

    >Is the NMEA signal from your Garmin feed (physical) to the ST6002 dispaly or
    >to the S1 computer ?
    >
    >
    >Bjarke


    The Garmin GPS NMEA output is connected to the S1 computer. The S1
    will go to a waypoint or follow a route, and display data from the
    GPS. The display/controller is connected to the computer via only
    Seatalk.

    Rick
    Rick Morel, Apr 28, 2009
    #9
  10. Bjarke M. Christensen

    Rick Morel Guest

    On Mon, 27 Apr 2009 08:37:59 -0500, Geoff Schultz
    <geoff"at"@geoffschultz.org> wrote:

    >But, before I digress...the conclusion there is that the ST600x will
    >display NMEA data which is presented to it, but it won't translate those
    >sentences into SeaTalk format. Thus if you have another SeaTalk based
    >display on the boat, you won't see the data being fed to the ST600x with
    >the NMEA input. To convert NMEA to SeaTalk, you need a box which
    >bridges the two.
    >
    >I'm not 100% sure what you mean when you say a "Garmin GPS". Are you
    >talking about a GPS antenna or a chartplotter? For example, I have a
    >Garmin GPS antenna which connects to my course computer via NMEA and I
    >also have a NorthStar chartplotter connected via NMEA and a RayMarine
    >chartplotter connected via SeaTalk. All of these talk to one another
    >and my ST6001 just fine. However, let's say that I had a wind
    >instrument connected to my ST6001 via NMEA. The ST6001 would show the
    >wind data, but my RayMarine C80 wouldn't display the wind data.
    >
    >
    >-- Geoff



    Geoff, I don't know how I could have been clearer. I wrote:

    "I have a Garmin GPS connected via NMEA.
    The S1 uses the GPS info to go to a waypoint or follow a route, and
    displays the info from the GPS - goto a waypoint on the GPS, hit
    "Track" on the S1, it beeps and gives a turn direction and course, hit
    "Track" again and the S1 steers to the waypoint or follows the route."

    A Garmin _GPS_ the S1 uses to go to a waypoint or follow a route.

    I don't have any other Raymarine instrument displays, but I have to
    believe the S1 does translate NMEA to Seatalk because the Garmin NMEA
    is physically connected to the S1 Computer, and the S1
    Display/Controller, which is physically connected via Seatalk only,
    displays the GPS data. So the NMEA data has to be available on the
    Seatalk buss for the display to get it, doesn't it?

    Rick
    Rick Morel, Apr 28, 2009
    #10
  11. Bjarke M. Christensen

    Rick Morel Guest

    On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:46:43 -0500, Geoff Schultz
    <geoff"at"@geoffschultz.org> wrote:

    >Rick,
    >
    >The RayMarine S1 is a course computer. It has has no display. How do
    >you input the course to it? The ST600x and any other controller will
    >beep when it's time to change waypoints.
    >
    >From what I can tell, your Garmin GPS antenna is connected to the S1
    >course computer, which is translating the lat/long into SeaTalk. There
    >has been no argument about this. The whole discussion has been about
    >connecting a NMEA instrument to the ST600x NMEA input and the ST600x
    >translating the NMEA data to SeaTalk. Your antenna is connected to the
    >S1 course computer and not the ST600x controller. What are you talking
    >about?
    >
    >-- Geoff



    Geoff, one more time and I give up.

    I have a Garmin Chartplotter GPS. It's NMEA is connected by wires to
    the S1 Computer NMEA connector.

    The S1 Controller (display) is connected to the S1 Computer by wires
    via Seatalk. This is the normal setup.


    The S1 Controller will display data from the Garmin Chartplotter, SOG,
    COG, XTE, Waypoint name, etc VIA the SEATALK.

    Goto a waypoint or activate a route on the Garmin Chartplotter. Press
    the "Track" button on the S1 Controller and S1 does some flashing and
    figuring, the beeps and displays the new course and to turn port or
    starboard. Press the "Track" button again and the S1 changes course
    and steers to the waypoint or route segment.


    NMEA Seatalk
    [Garmin Chrtpltr] >--->----> [S1 Computer] <>--<-->--<> [S1 Display]


    Rick
    Rick Morel, Apr 29, 2009
    #11
  12. OK. So the S1 computer translate to Seatalk. We guess that is not the case
    if you connect the NMEA signal to the ST6002 display.

    --
    Maxi 999 - 'Escape' - Hundige



    "Rick Morel" <rmorel@m*o*r*e*l*r.com> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 19:46:43 -0500, Geoff Schultz
    > <geoff"at"@geoffschultz.org> wrote:
    >
    >>Rick,
    >>
    >>The RayMarine S1 is a course computer. It has has no display. How do
    >>you input the course to it? The ST600x and any other controller will
    >>beep when it's time to change waypoints.
    >>
    >>From what I can tell, your Garmin GPS antenna is connected to the S1
    >>course computer, which is translating the lat/long into SeaTalk. There
    >>has been no argument about this. The whole discussion has been about
    >>connecting a NMEA instrument to the ST600x NMEA input and the ST600x
    >>translating the NMEA data to SeaTalk. Your antenna is connected to the
    >>S1 course computer and not the ST600x controller. What are you talking
    >>about?
    >>
    >>-- Geoff

    >
    >
    > Geoff, one more time and I give up.
    >
    > I have a Garmin Chartplotter GPS. It's NMEA is connected by wires to
    > the S1 Computer NMEA connector.
    >
    > The S1 Controller (display) is connected to the S1 Computer by wires
    > via Seatalk. This is the normal setup.
    >
    >
    > The S1 Controller will display data from the Garmin Chartplotter, SOG,
    > COG, XTE, Waypoint name, etc VIA the SEATALK.
    >
    > Goto a waypoint or activate a route on the Garmin Chartplotter. Press
    > the "Track" button on the S1 Controller and S1 does some flashing and
    > figuring, the beeps and displays the new course and to turn port or
    > starboard. Press the "Track" button again and the S1 changes course
    > and steers to the waypoint or route segment.
    >
    >
    > NMEA Seatalk
    > [Garmin Chrtpltr] >--->----> [S1 Computer] <>--<-->--<> [S1 Display]
    >
    >
    > Rick
    Bjarke M. Christensen, Apr 29, 2009
    #12
  13. Bjarke M. Christensen

    Rick Morel Guest

    On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 18:25:40 +0200, "Bjarke M. Christensen"
    <Bjarke(snabel-a)grevestrand(punkt)dk> wrote:

    >OK. So the S1 computer translate to Seatalk. We guess that is not the case
    >if you connect the NMEA signal to the ST6002 display.


    Actually, I don't see why not. I'd try it, but we're out cruising for
    a bit and don't want to start taking things apart.

    The way I understand the manual, it should. I don't find the manual
    confusing or ambiguous. It basically states you can connect NMEA
    equipment to the computer or the display. Sounds simple and
    straightforward to me. Otherwise how could you steer by a NMEA wind
    indicator, GPS or whatever?

    Rick
    Rick Morel, Apr 30, 2009
    #13
  14. Bjarke M. Christensen

    Rick Morel Guest

    On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 13:21:28 -0500, Geoff Schultz
    <geoff"at"@geoffschultz.org> wrote:

    >Rick,
    >
    >The issue here seems to be with terminology. You have a S1 course
    >computer (corepack in RayMarine terminology) and some form of control
    >head. There is no such thing as a S1 controller. You probably have
    >either an ST70, ST600x, ST700x or ST800x (where x=1 or 2).


    Whatever the controller is, it came with the Raymarine S1 Wheelpilot
    that I bought, along with the rudder position indicator and fluxgate
    compass.

    >The S1 corepack will translate the NMEA lat/long data into SeaTalk.


    It translate a lot more as stated. XTE (Cross Track Error), SOG (Speed
    Over Ground), COG (Course Over Ground), Track, etc. All the normal
    NMEA stuff used by GPS chartplotters, receivers, black boxes, dat ting
    what shows you where you be, where you goin' and how long it's going
    to take to get there.


    > Note
    >that if the GPS antenna was connected to the NMEA input on the
    >controller, that it wouldn't translate (or even understand) it.


    I wouldn't think anything could translate from a GPS _ANTENNA_. If you
    mean a GPS unit that outputs NMEA, I don't see why not. As in the
    previous post, the Raymarine manual says you can connect NMEA stuff to
    either the computer, controller or an external NMEA to Seatalk
    converter. That seems simple and straightforward to me.

    > The rest
    >of your data (depth, wind, etc) is most likely coming from SeaTalk
    >instruments and no translation is required.


    Unless you have a NMEA speaking fathometer, wind instrument, etc.
    Again, as per the manual.

    Rick
    Rick Morel, Apr 30, 2009
    #14
  15. Bjarke M. Christensen

    Rick Morel Guest

    On Wed, 29 Apr 2009 21:13:24 -0500, Geoff Schultz
    <geoff"at"@geoffschultz.org> wrote:

    >
    >I guess that you just don't get it. End of discussion since we're
    >talking at one another instead of to one another.
    >
    >-- Geoff
    >www.GeoffSchultz.org



    I sure don't get it. I originally answered a simple questiion with a
    simple answer, then had to answer it again and again.

    Rick
    Rick Morel, Apr 30, 2009
    #15

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