Pocket EMP device with a disposable camera's flash?

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by sk8terg1rl, Nov 2, 2006.

  1. sk8terg1rl

    sk8terg1rl Guest

    Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.

    Do you guys think this is feasible? Will this device fry all
    electronics indiscriminately, or only those which are tuned to receive
    at particular frequencies?
    sk8terg1rl, Nov 2, 2006
    #1
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  2. sk8terg1rl

    Ian Stirling Guest

    sk8terg1rl <> wrote:
    > Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    > improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    > removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.
    >
    > Do you guys think this is feasible? Will this device fry all
    > electronics indiscriminately, or only those which are tuned to receive
    > at particular frequencies?


    It would tend to kill primarily RF tags around the frequency that the LC
    thingy is tuned to.
    Ian Stirling, Nov 2, 2006
    #2
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  3. sk8terg1rl

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On 02 Nov 2006 20:57:25 GMT, Ian Stirling <>
    wrote:

    >sk8terg1rl <> wrote:
    >> Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    >> improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    >> removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.
    >>
    >> Do you guys think this is feasible? Will this device fry all
    >> electronics indiscriminately, or only those which are tuned to receive
    >> at particular frequencies?

    >
    >It would tend to kill primarily RF tags around the frequency that the LC
    >thingy is tuned to.


    Don't aid the shoplifters ;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
    Jim Thompson, Nov 2, 2006
    #3
  4. On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 14:13:33 -0700, in sci.electronics.design Jim
    Thompson <> wrote:

    >On 02 Nov 2006 20:57:25 GMT, Ian Stirling <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>sk8terg1rl <> wrote:
    >>> Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    >>> improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    >>> removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.
    >>>
    >>> Do you guys think this is feasible? Will this device fry all
    >>> electronics indiscriminately, or only those which are tuned to receive
    >>> at particular frequencies?

    >>
    >>It would tend to kill primarily RF tags around the frequency that the LC
    >>thingy is tuned to.

    >
    >Don't aid the shoplifters ;-)
    >
    > ...Jim Thompson



    Don't aid Big Brother


    martin
    martin griffith, Nov 2, 2006
    #4
  5. sk8terg1rl

    Guest

    sk8terg1rl wrote:
    > Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    > improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    > removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.
    >
    > Do you guys think this is feasible? Will this device fry all
    > electronics indiscriminately, or only those which are tuned to receive
    > at particular frequencies?



    https://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/wiki/RFID-Zapper(EN)

    "Caution: RFID-Zappers don't comply with FCC rules."
    , Nov 2, 2006
    #5
  6. sk8terg1rl wrote:
    > Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    > improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    > removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.


    Nope, can't do it that way. The xenon flashtube is directly connected
    across the main storage capacitor. It's triggered into firing by a
    high voltage pulse applied to a thin wire that's wound around the tube.


    A LC circuit of course can't be triggered that way. I guess you could
    put the LC in series with the flashtube, so there's be a several amp
    pulse into it. But that's not going to generate much of a RF field.

    Much better EMP can be done with public-domain designs, just use Google.
    Ancient_Hacker, Nov 2, 2006
    #6
  7. sk8terg1rl

    sk8terg1rl Guest

    Jim Thompson wrote:
    > On 02 Nov 2006 20:57:25 GMT, Ian Stirling <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >sk8terg1rl <> wrote:
    > >> Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    > >> improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    > >> removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.
    > >>
    > >> Do you guys think this is feasible? Will this device fry all
    > >> electronics indiscriminately, or only those which are tuned to receive
    > >> at particular frequencies?

    > >
    > >It would tend to kill primarily RF tags around the frequency that the LC
    > >thingy is tuned to.

    >
    > Don't aid the shoplifters ;-)


    If only it were so simple.

    Britain is slowly but surely turning into a despotic, Orwellian
    dystopia. Not that I will be doing anything, I hasten to add.

    Britain: the most spied on nation in the world
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/02/nspy02.xml

    Your life in their lens
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/02/nspy102.xml

    'Big Brother society' fears
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6108660.stm

    Warning over surveillance society
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6187445,00.html
    sk8terg1rl, Nov 2, 2006
    #7
  8. sk8terg1rl

    sk8terg1rl Guest

    Ancient_Hacker wrote:
    > sk8terg1rl wrote:
    > > Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    > > improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    > > removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.

    >
    > Nope, can't do it that way. The xenon flashtube is directly connected
    > across the main storage capacitor. It's triggered into firing by a
    > high voltage pulse applied to a thin wire that's wound around the tube.
    >
    >
    > A LC circuit of course can't be triggered that way. I guess you could
    > put the LC in series with the flashtube, so there's be a several amp
    > pulse into it. But that's not going to generate much of a RF field.


    Can't you could just break the flashtube and effectively turn it into a
    large resistor, and "short circuit" the LC in what were its input
    leads? AIUI all you're really taking from the disposable camera is its
    capacitor, the means to charge it and the trigger to discharge it. All
    of which should work independently of whether you have a flashtube or
    LC circuit connected to it.

    > Much better EMP can be done with public-domain designs, just use Google.


    The other EMP devices I've seen require the use of some kind of
    vircator assembly. This means nasty explosives (and potentially a LOT
    of trouble) and it will be a highly visible one-off usage device.

    Any other designs for innocuous devices that are reusable?
    sk8terg1rl, Nov 2, 2006
    #8
  9. sk8terg1rl

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On 2 Nov 2006 14:15:38 -0800, "sk8terg1rl"
    <> wrote:

    >
    >Jim Thompson wrote:
    >> On 02 Nov 2006 20:57:25 GMT, Ian Stirling <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >sk8terg1rl <> wrote:
    >> >> Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    >> >> improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    >> >> removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.
    >> >>
    >> >> Do you guys think this is feasible? Will this device fry all
    >> >> electronics indiscriminately, or only those which are tuned to receive
    >> >> at particular frequencies?
    >> >
    >> >It would tend to kill primarily RF tags around the frequency that the LC
    >> >thingy is tuned to.

    >>
    >> Don't aid the shoplifters ;-)

    >
    >If only it were so simple.
    >
    >Britain is slowly but surely turning into a despotic, Orwellian
    >dystopia. Not that I will be doing anything, I hasten to add.
    >
    >Britain: the most spied on nation in the world
    >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/02/nspy02.xml
    >
    >Your life in their lens
    >http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2006/11/02/nspy102.xml
    >
    >'Big Brother society' fears
    >http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6108660.stm
    >
    >Warning over surveillance society
    >http://www.guardian.co.uk/uklatest/story/0,,-6187445,00.html


    So? Don't jerk off in public ;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
    Jim Thompson, Nov 2, 2006
    #9
  10. sk8terg1rl

    sk8terg1rl Guest

    Jim Thompson wrote:

    > So? Don't jerk off in public ;-)


    It has less to do with the police catching legitimate criminals, than
    criminalising the innocent and acting with impunity.

    For example, the police who recently murdered an innocent, restrained
    and unresisting man are back on duty (Rambo killed another guy today
    too) and they weren't even *tried*. If that isn't an indication of
    being above the law, I don't know what is.

    It is easy for you to point fingers being a Yank where freedom is still
    somewhat valued but I extend a very warm welcome to you to come to
    Britain and see things for yourself.

    Until then, please spare us your snide misinformed comments.
    sk8terg1rl, Nov 2, 2006
    #10
  11. sk8terg1rl

    Jim Yanik Guest

    "sk8terg1rl" <> wrote in
    news::

    >
    > Ancient_Hacker wrote:
    >> sk8terg1rl wrote:
    >> > Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    >> > improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    >> > removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.

    >>
    >> Nope, can't do it that way. The xenon flashtube is directly connected
    >> across the main storage capacitor. It's triggered into firing by a
    >> high voltage pulse applied to a thin wire that's wound around the tube.
    >>
    >>
    >> A LC circuit of course can't be triggered that way. I guess you could
    >> put the LC in series with the flashtube, so there's be a several amp
    >> pulse into it. But that's not going to generate much of a RF field.

    >
    > Can't you could just break the flashtube and effectively turn it into a
    > large resistor,


    It does not turn into a resistor,it turns into an open circuit;a big air
    gap.
    You obviously do not know how a xenon flashtube works.

    > and "short circuit" the LC in what were its input
    > leads? AIUI all you're really taking from the disposable camera is its
    > capacitor, the means to charge it and the trigger to discharge it. All
    > of which should work independently of whether you have a flashtube or
    > LC circuit connected to it.


    Better learn HOW the flashtube is triggered and how a xenon flashtube
    works.

    Hint;the flashtube IS the switch.

    --
    Jim Yanik
    jyanik
    at
    kua.net
    Jim Yanik, Nov 2, 2006
    #11
  12. sk8terg1rl

    Didi Guest

    > It has less to do with the police catching legitimate criminals, than
    > criminalising the innocent and acting with impunity.


    Frankly I was surprised the public debate to start this early (heard of
    it
    today on the BBC Worldservice).
    For many years now I believe the obvious destination of
    the path human society has taken - given no too great catastrophy
    interrupts
    that - is a zero privacy society. It is the only way things can work
    out
    and be accepted by most people - anyone can watch anyones activity
    at any given moment, no exceptions. I am not sure I am ready to live in
    such a society but then I doubt I will live long enough to have to...
    Under the
    score the change will be for the better, 0 privacy will also mean 0
    lies,
    which may have a dramatic effect on progress etc.
    It is encouraging to see the English initiating the debate; trying to
    stop the technology from utilization will of course be futile, although
    it will take many years for things to settle.

    Dimiter (in Seldon mode yet again :) :)


    sk8terg1rl wrote:
    > Jim Thompson wrote:
    >
    > > So? Don't jerk off in public ;-)

    >
    > It has less to do with the police catching legitimate criminals, than
    > criminalising the innocent and acting with impunity.
    >
    > For example, the police who recently murdered an innocent, restrained
    > and unresisting man are back on duty (Rambo killed another guy today
    > too) and they weren't even *tried*. If that isn't an indication of
    > being above the law, I don't know what is.
    >
    > It is easy for you to point fingers being a Yank where freedom is still
    > somewhat valued but I extend a very warm welcome to you to come to
    > Britain and see things for yourself.
    >
    > Until then, please spare us your snide misinformed comments.
    Didi, Nov 2, 2006
    #12
  13. sk8terg1rl

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On 2 Nov 2006 15:09:23 -0800, "sk8terg1rl"
    <> wrote:

    >Jim Thompson wrote:
    >
    >> So? Don't jerk off in public ;-)

    >
    >It has less to do with the police catching legitimate criminals, than
    >criminalising the innocent and acting with impunity.
    >
    >For example, the police who recently murdered an innocent, restrained
    >and unresisting man are back on duty (Rambo killed another guy today
    >too) and they weren't even *tried*. If that isn't an indication of
    >being above the law, I don't know what is.
    >
    >It is easy for you to point fingers being a Yank where freedom is still
    >somewhat valued but I extend a very warm welcome to you to come to
    >Britain and see things for yourself.
    >
    >Until then, please spare us your snide misinformed comments.


    Are the cameras anywhere but in _public_ places?

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
    Jim Thompson, Nov 2, 2006
    #13
  14. sk8terg1rl

    Didi Guest

    > Are the cameras anywhere but in _public_ places?

    It is not just about public cameras. It is also about carrying a mobile
    phone (how do you know what it is doing), electronic payments and
    other traceable activities, online activity, etc. etc., the list may be
    growing by the hour rather than by the day...

    Dimiter

    Jim Thompson wrote:
    > On 2 Nov 2006 15:09:23 -0800, "sk8terg1rl"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >Jim Thompson wrote:
    > >
    > >> So? Don't jerk off in public ;-)

    > >
    > >It has less to do with the police catching legitimate criminals, than
    > >criminalising the innocent and acting with impunity.
    > >
    > >For example, the police who recently murdered an innocent, restrained
    > >and unresisting man are back on duty (Rambo killed another guy today
    > >too) and they weren't even *tried*. If that isn't an indication of
    > >being above the law, I don't know what is.
    > >
    > >It is easy for you to point fingers being a Yank where freedom is still
    > >somewhat valued but I extend a very warm welcome to you to come to
    > >Britain and see things for yourself.
    > >
    > >Until then, please spare us your snide misinformed comments.

    >
    > Are the cameras anywhere but in _public_ places?
    >
    > ...Jim Thompson
    > --
    > | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    > | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    > | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    > | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    > | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    > | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
    >
    > I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
    Didi, Nov 3, 2006
    #14
  15. sk8terg1rl

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On 2 Nov 2006 16:19:51 -0800, "Didi" <> wrote:

    >> Are the cameras anywhere but in _public_ places?

    >
    >It is not just about public cameras. It is also about carrying a mobile
    >phone (how do you know what it is doing), electronic payments and
    >other traceable activities, online activity, etc. etc., the list may be
    >growing by the hour rather than by the day...
    >
    >Dimiter
    >
    >Jim Thompson wrote:

    [snip]
    >>
    >> Are the cameras anywhere but in _public_ places?
    >>
    >>


    So turn off your phone when you're not using it. And don't make
    electronic payments or do "other traceable activities".

    Then they'll start _following_ you because you are acting
    suspiciously.

    When you _are_ using your cell phone, they already know where you are.
    The phone company won't be cheated out of a penny.

    Don't the British authorities still need a warrant to enter your home?

    Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they're NOT out to get
    you ;-)

    Sheeeesh! Sounds like the Brits are raising a large crop of leftist
    weenies.

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
    Jim Thompson, Nov 3, 2006
    #15
  16. sk8terg1rl

    sk8terg1rl Guest

    Jim Yanik wrote:
    > "sk8terg1rl" <> wrote in
    > news::
    >
    > >
    > > Ancient_Hacker wrote:
    > >> sk8terg1rl wrote:
    > >> > Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    > >> > improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    > >> > removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.
    > >>
    > >> Nope, can't do it that way. The xenon flashtube is directly connected
    > >> across the main storage capacitor. It's triggered into firing by a
    > >> high voltage pulse applied to a thin wire that's wound around the tube.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> A LC circuit of course can't be triggered that way. I guess you could
    > >> put the LC in series with the flashtube, so there's be a several amp
    > >> pulse into it. But that's not going to generate much of a RF field.

    > >
    > > Can't you could just break the flashtube and effectively turn it into a
    > > large resistor,

    >
    > It does not turn into a resistor,it turns into an open circuit;a big air
    > gap.
    > You obviously do not know how a xenon flashtube works.
    >
    > > and "short circuit" the LC in what were its input
    > > leads? AIUI all you're really taking from the disposable camera is its
    > > capacitor, the means to charge it and the trigger to discharge it. All
    > > of which should work independently of whether you have a flashtube or
    > > LC circuit connected to it.

    >
    > Better learn HOW the flashtube is triggered and how a xenon flashtube
    > works.
    >
    > Hint;the flashtube IS the switch.


    OK, so if I understand correctly: the trigger pulse ionises the Xenon,
    which then becomes conducting and the main discharge from the capacitor
    follows.

    Depending on the circuitry of the disposable camera, the capacitor's
    discharge is either controlled by a second switch, or simply by virtue
    of the Xenon becoming conducting.

    If it is the former, no problem - that second switch simply needs to be
    triggered or replaced to bypass it.

    If it is the latter, then replacing the Xenon with an inductance coil
    will cause the capacitor to discharge immediately after the trigger
    pulse is fired.

    So in theory it should work; correct me if I am wrong please.
    sk8terg1rl, Nov 3, 2006
    #16
  17. sk8terg1rl

    sk8terg1rl Guest

    Didi wrote:
    > > It has less to do with the police catching legitimate criminals, than
    > > criminalising the innocent and acting with impunity.

    >
    > Frankly I was surprised the public debate to start this early (heard of
    > it
    > today on the BBC Worldservice).
    > For many years now I believe the obvious destination of
    > the path human society has taken - given no too great catastrophy
    > interrupts
    > that - is a zero privacy society. It is the only way things can work
    > out
    > and be accepted by most people - anyone can watch anyones activity
    > at any given moment, no exceptions. I am not sure I am ready to live in
    > such a society but then I doubt I will live long enough to have to...
    > Under the
    > score the change will be for the better, 0 privacy will also mean 0
    > lies,
    > which may have a dramatic effect on progress etc.
    > It is encouraging to see the English initiating the debate; trying to
    > stop the technology from utilization will of course be futile, although
    > it will take many years for things to settle.
    >
    > Dimiter (in Seldon mode yet again :) :)


    A slide down to a surveillance-fetish society is not inevitable.

    People must simply realise that they must accept risk as part of
    freedom. Trying to be obsessive about security and monitoring to
    "ensure safety" will simply turn the society into a high tax-high
    spending Socialist dystopia with certain groups of society above the
    law and/or telling us what to do.

    An example: I would rather have laws that enshrine our right to be
    armed and defend ourselves, than rely on cops to do that. I am the best
    guarantor of my security; not a 3rd party.
    sk8terg1rl, Nov 3, 2006
    #17
  18. sk8terg1rl wrote:
    > Jim Yanik wrote:
    > > "sk8terg1rl" <> wrote in
    > > news::
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Ancient_Hacker wrote:
    > > >> sk8terg1rl wrote:
    > > >> > Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    > > >> > improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    > > >> > removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.
    > > >>
    > > >> Nope, can't do it that way. The xenon flashtube is directly connected
    > > >> across the main storage capacitor. It's triggered into firing by a
    > > >> high voltage pulse applied to a thin wire that's wound around the tube.
    > > >>
    > > >>
    > > >> A LC circuit of course can't be triggered that way. I guess you could
    > > >> put the LC in series with the flashtube, so there's be a several amp
    > > >> pulse into it. But that's not going to generate much of a RF field.
    > > >
    > > > Can't you could just break the flashtube and effectively turn it into a
    > > > large resistor,

    > >
    > > It does not turn into a resistor,it turns into an open circuit;a big air
    > > gap.
    > > You obviously do not know how a xenon flashtube works.
    > >
    > > > and "short circuit" the LC in what were its input
    > > > leads? AIUI all you're really taking from the disposable camera is its
    > > > capacitor, the means to charge it and the trigger to discharge it. All
    > > > of which should work independently of whether you have a flashtube or
    > > > LC circuit connected to it.

    > >
    > > Better learn HOW the flashtube is triggered and how a xenon flashtube
    > > works.
    > >
    > > Hint;the flashtube IS the switch.

    >
    > OK, so if I understand correctly: the trigger pulse ionises the Xenon,
    > which then becomes conducting and the main discharge from the capacitor
    > follows.
    >
    > Depending on the circuitry of the disposable camera, the capacitor's
    > discharge is either controlled by a second switch, or simply by virtue
    > of the Xenon becoming conducting.
    >
    > If it is the former, no problem - that second switch simply needs to be
    > triggered or replaced to bypass it.
    >
    > If it is the latter, then replacing the Xenon with an inductance coil
    > will cause the capacitor to discharge immediately after the trigger
    > pulse is fired.
    >
    > So in theory it should work; correct me if I am wrong please.


    I think the way it works is that the xenon tube is always connected
    across the cap; the voltage builds up to several hundred volts,
    somewhat under the spontaneous flashover voltage for the flashtube and
    the flash unit is ready; then a trigger pulse is applied to make some
    ions in the tube. Those are accelerated by the high voltage field,
    collide with other atoms, make more ions, in an avalanche effect. The
    xenon has broken down, its resistance drops to a very low value, and
    the big current pulse ensues as the capacitor discharges. As he said,
    the tube itself is the switch. Then, when the current through the tube
    disappears, the ions recombine and you have an insulating tube again.
    If you replace it with a coil, you'll never build up the capacitor
    voltage in the first place. Putting your coil in series with the tube
    will give you a big pulse into the coil, but as they said, probably not
    enough to damage anything. The cap will only be holding a few joules of
    energy.

    I found this through google:
    http://members.misty.com/don/samflash.html
    Notes on the Troubleshooting and Repair of Electronic Flash Units and
    Strobe Lights and Design Guidelines, Useful Circuits, and Schematics

    --
    John
    John O'Flaherty, Nov 3, 2006
    #18
  19. sk8terg1rl

    Didi Guest

    > An example: I would rather have laws that enshrine our right to be
    > armed and defend ourselves, than rely on cops to do that. I am the best
    > guarantor of my security; not a 3rd party.


    Agreed 100% on that.
    My point is, however, that technological progress will inevitably bring
    with itself either a "zero secrets" society or something even worse
    than Orwells (after all, he wrote 1984, not 2084....). I can't help
    being
    an optimist, so I imagine it will be the former.... Notice that 0
    secrets
    means 0 secrets, _no_ exceptions. This will actually be better than
    todays hypocritic mess - although it will take some development
    until we are ready for it.

    Dimiter (still unable to quit the Seldon mode :)

    sk8terg1rl wrote:
    > Didi wrote:
    > > > It has less to do with the police catching legitimate criminals, than
    > > > criminalising the innocent and acting with impunity.

    > >
    > > Frankly I was surprised the public debate to start this early (heard of
    > > it
    > > today on the BBC Worldservice).
    > > For many years now I believe the obvious destination of
    > > the path human society has taken - given no too great catastrophy
    > > interrupts
    > > that - is a zero privacy society. It is the only way things can work
    > > out
    > > and be accepted by most people - anyone can watch anyones activity
    > > at any given moment, no exceptions. I am not sure I am ready to live in
    > > such a society but then I doubt I will live long enough to have to...
    > > Under the
    > > score the change will be for the better, 0 privacy will also mean 0
    > > lies,
    > > which may have a dramatic effect on progress etc.
    > > It is encouraging to see the English initiating the debate; trying to
    > > stop the technology from utilization will of course be futile, although
    > > it will take many years for things to settle.
    > >
    > > Dimiter (in Seldon mode yet again :) :)

    >
    > A slide down to a surveillance-fetish society is not inevitable.
    >
    > People must simply realise that they must accept risk as part of
    > freedom. Trying to be obsessive about security and monitoring to
    > "ensure safety" will simply turn the society into a high tax-high
    > spending Socialist dystopia with certain groups of society above the
    > law and/or telling us what to do.
    >
    > An example: I would rather have laws that enshrine our right to be
    > armed and defend ourselves, than rely on cops to do that. I am the best
    > guarantor of my security; not a 3rd party.
    Didi, Nov 3, 2006
    #19
  20. sk8terg1rl

    Mark Guest


    > > > >> > Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
    > > > >> > improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
    > > > >> > removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.
    > > > >>


    If you want to zap your own RF ID tag, simply place it inside the
    microwave oven along with your favorite pop corn...

    It wouldn't be nice to zap someone elses...

    Mark
    Mark, Nov 3, 2006
    #20
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