Orcad Capture/Layout question

Discussion in 'CAD' started by Active8, Dec 17, 2003.

  1. Active8

    Active8 Guest

    Bueno:

    Tactile switches. My preferred capture symbol from discrete.olb is

    SW TACT-SPST which basically looks like;

    -
    |
    ---
    1 --o-o o-o-- 2

    then there's:

    SW TACT-SPST-2

    1 - 4
    o | o
    | --- |
    +--o o--+
    | |
    o o
    2 3


    created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.22.310103 Beta www.tech-chat.de

    the button looks better, though.

    Problemo:

    My tact switch is the 4 pin type but I want to use the first
    Capture symbol

    Notice how the pins numbers ain't gonna cut it? Know how Layout
    would balk if the netlist pins don't jibe?

    Aside from making a new Capture symbol with perhaps hidden pins (?)
    what could I do?

    I looked at the 2nd sybol in the parts editor and I don't see a way
    to hide pins in "pin properties" or "user properties".

    I might just try making a symbol of a switch at 45 deg angle so I
    can stick 'em in a matrix, Even then, I'd need to hide pins, I
    think. I'd like to know any other workarounds for this. It would be
    nice to have the parts placed and have a ratsnest for the manual
    route. I can't even copy multiple parts in layout. It just wants to
    place one at a time, and with "new", I have to select the footprint
    every time. That's bogus, eh?

    TIA,
    Mike

    matrix. this could be a whole capture/layout part. hmm...

    | | | |
    -|--|--|--|--
    |/ |/ |/ |/
    -|--|--|--|--
    |/ |/ |/ |/
    -|--|--|--|--
    |/ |/ |/ |/
    -|--|--|--|--
    |/ |/ |/ |/
    | | | |

    created by Andy´s ASCII-Circuit v1.22.310103 Beta www.tech-chat.de
     
    Active8, Dec 17, 2003
    #1
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  2. "Active8" <,invalid> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > Bueno:
    >
    > Tactile switches. My preferred capture symbol from discrete.olb is
    >
    > SW TACT-SPST which basically looks like;
    >
    > -
    > |
    > ---
    > 1 --o-o o-o-- 2
    >
    > then there's:


    <snip>

    > Problemo:
    >
    > My tact switch is the 4 pin type but I want to use the first
    > Capture symbol


    No Problemo.

    > Notice how the pins numbers ain't gonna cut it? Know how Layout
    > would balk if the netlist pins don't jibe?


    No Problemo.

    > Aside from making a new Capture symbol with perhaps hidden pins (?)
    > what could I do?


    Don't do a thing. Orcad will NOT balk about it, Layout will just leave pins
    3 and 4 of your switch footprint unconnected. I have used this myself in a
    few designs.
    Layout will only complain if the footprint has LESS pins that the schematic
    part.

    Meindert
     
    Meindert Sprang, Dec 17, 2003
    #2
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  3. Active8

    Active8 Guest

    On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:08:34 +0100,
    said...
    > "Active8" <,invalid> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > >
    > > Bueno:
    > >
    > > Tactile switches. My preferred capture symbol from discrete.olb is
    > >
    > > SW TACT-SPST which basically looks like;
    > >
    > > -
    > > |
    > > ---
    > > 1 --o-o o-o-- 2
    > >
    > > then there's:

    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > > Problemo:
    > >
    > > My tact switch is the 4 pin type but I want to use the first
    > > Capture symbol

    >
    > No Problemo.
    >
    > > Notice how the pins numbers ain't gonna cut it? Know how Layout
    > > would balk if the netlist pins don't jibe?

    >
    > No Problemo.
    >
    > > Aside from making a new Capture symbol with perhaps hidden pins (?)
    > > what could I do?

    >
    > Don't do a thing. Orcad will NOT balk about it, Layout will just leave pins
    > 3 and 4 of your switch footprint unconnected. I have used this myself in a
    > few designs.
    > Layout will only complain if the footprint has LESS pins that the schematic
    > part.


    Ah! *That's* what it did to me before. It did work with the 2 pin
    Capture part. I did make a diagonal switch, too. I couldn't get the
    pins that I wanted to hide without making them invisible power
    pins, but now I don't have to. I'll just have to make text notes on
    the schem regarding the fact that they're not really 2 pin
    switches. Like that really matters.

    Works for me.

    Hey. I can't remember what I had to do to get update cache and
    replace cache to enable in the design menu. I can only get cleanup
    cache to enable. Friggin' help files and pdfs are for the birds
    sometimes.

    Anyone?

    tnx,
    Mike
    >
    > Meindert
    >
    >
    >
     
    Active8, Dec 17, 2003
    #3
  4. "Active8" <,invalid> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hey. I can't remember what I had to do to get update cache and
    > replace cache to enable in the design menu. I can only get cleanup
    > cache to enable. Friggin' help files and pdfs are for the birds
    > sometimes.


    You have to select the part in the design cache first. Then "Replace Cache"
    and "Update Chache" become enabled.

    Meindert
     
    Meindert Sprang, Dec 17, 2003
    #4
  5. Active8

    Active8 Guest

    On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:17:27 +0100,
    said...
    > "Active8" <,invalid> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > Hey. I can't remember what I had to do to get update cache and
    > > replace cache to enable in the design menu. I can only get cleanup
    > > cache to enable. Friggin' help files and pdfs are for the birds
    > > sometimes.

    >
    > You have to select the part in the design cache first. Then "Replace Cache"
    > and "Update Chache" become enabled.
    >
    > Meindert
    >
    >
    >

    Duh. [Kicks self in ass again] which way do i go? So used to
    highlighting the design file I thought that was the way when the
    other option lit up.

    how do you keep Jim Thompson from saying "I told you so" or
    something as the computer's in David Letterman free fall from
    waaaaay up?

    thanks,
    Mike
     
    Active8, Dec 17, 2003
    #5
  6. Active8

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:50:29 GMT, Active8
    <,invalid> wrote:

    >On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:17:27 +0100,
    >said...
    >> "Active8" <,invalid> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > Hey. I can't remember what I had to do to get update cache and
    >> > replace cache to enable in the design menu. I can only get cleanup
    >> > cache to enable. Friggin' help files and pdfs are for the birds
    >> > sometimes.

    >>
    >> You have to select the part in the design cache first. Then "Replace Cache"
    >> and "Update Chache" become enabled.
    >>
    >> Meindert
    >>
    >>
    >>

    >Duh. [Kicks self in ass again] which way do i go? So used to
    >highlighting the design file I thought that was the way when the
    >other option lit up.
    >
    >how do you keep Jim Thompson from saying "I told you so" or
    >something as the computer's in David Letterman free fall from
    >waaaaay up?
    >
    >thanks,
    >Mike


    I don't use Capture ;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
     
    Jim Thompson, Dec 17, 2003
    #6
  7. Active8

    Active8 Guest

    On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:11:33 -0700, lid said...
    > On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 17:50:29 GMT, Active8
    > <,invalid> wrote:
    >
    > >On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 15:17:27 +0100,
    > >said...
    > >> "Active8" <,invalid> wrote in message
    > >> news:...
    > >> > Hey. I can't remember what I had to do to get update cache and
    > >> > replace cache to enable in the design menu. I can only get cleanup
    > >> > cache to enable. Friggin' help files and pdfs are for the birds
    > >> > sometimes.
    > >>
    > >> You have to select the part in the design cache first. Then "Replace Cache"
    > >> and "Update Chache" become enabled.
    > >>
    > >> Meindert
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>

    > >Duh. [Kicks self in ass again] which way do i go? So used to
    > >highlighting the design file I thought that was the way when the
    > >other option lit up.
    > >
    > >how do you keep Jim Thompson from saying "I told you so" or
    > >something as the computer's in David Letterman free fall from
    > >waaaaay up?
    > >
    > >thanks,
    > >Mike

    >
    > I don't use Capture ;-)
    >
    > ...Jim Thompson
    >

    That was the point. You also didn't have to walk through slushy
    half-asses, snowy friggin' bs today either, so go do something
    totally unpleasant ;) Or go pick on Win. Yeah. That's the ticket.
    Pick on someone your own age.

    I feel better now.

    Mike
     
    Active8, Dec 17, 2003
    #7
  8. On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:08:34 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
    <> wrote:

    >"Active8" <,invalid> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >>
    >> Bueno:
    >>

    >
    >> My tact switch is the 4 pin type but I want to use the first
    >> Capture symbol

    >
    >No Problemo.
    >
    >> Notice how the pins numbers ain't gonna cut it? Know how Layout
    >> would balk if the netlist pins don't jibe?

    >
    >No Problemo.


    Wrong: Problemo.

    In the four pin symbol, pins 1 and 2 are the same contact, so the PCB
    program would connect to those two pins - switch no work!

    I would make a new PCB and/or schematic symbol to suit the new switch.










    --
    Peter Bennett VE7CEI
    email: peterbb (at) interchange.ubc.ca
    GPS and NMEA info and programs: http://vancouver-webpages.com/peter/index.html
    Newsgroup new user info: http://vancouver-webpages.com/nnq
     
    Peter Bennett, Dec 17, 2003
    #8
  9. "Peter Bennett" <> wrote in message
    news:p...
    >
    > Wrong: Problemo.
    >
    > In the four pin symbol, pins 1 and 2 are the same contact, so the PCB
    > program would connect to those two pins - switch no work!
    >
    > I would make a new PCB and/or schematic symbol to suit the new switch.


    As I understand it, the OP wants to use the 2 pin symbol in the schematic,
    while the PCB symbol has 4 pins. In that case, it IS no problem. And yes, I
    tried it first, before I replied to him ;-)

    Meindert
     
    Meindert Sprang, Dec 17, 2003
    #9
  10. Active8

    Active8 Guest

    On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 11:23:57 -0800, lid said...
    > On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 08:08:34 +0100, "Meindert Sprang"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >"Active8" <,invalid> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >>
    > >> Bueno:
    > >>

    > >
    > >> My tact switch is the 4 pin type but I want to use the first
    > >> Capture symbol

    > >
    > >No Problemo.
    > >
    > >> Notice how the pins numbers ain't gonna cut it? Know how Layout
    > >> would balk if the netlist pins don't jibe?

    > >
    > >No Problemo.

    >
    > Wrong: Problemo.
    >
    > In the four pin symbol, pins 1 and 2 are the same contact, so the PCB
    > program would connect to those two pins - switch no work!
    >
    > I would make a new PCB and/or schematic symbol to suit the new switch.
    >

    BTDT been there... I wouldn't know which foot print went with a
    Mountain Swich .256 tactile PB. So I made the footprint ersta.

    Kein problem. Das mas nicht.

    Mike
     
    Active8, Dec 17, 2003
    #10
  11. Active8

    Active8 Guest

    On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 21:31:40 +0100,
    said...
    > "Peter Bennett" <> wrote in message
    > news:p...
    > >
    > > Wrong: Problemo.
    > >
    > > In the four pin symbol, pins 1 and 2 are the same contact, so the PCB
    > > program would connect to those two pins - switch no work!
    > >
    > > I would make a new PCB and/or schematic symbol to suit the new switch.

    >
    > As I understand it, the OP wants to use the 2 pin symbol in the schematic,
    > while the PCB symbol has 4 pins. In that case, it IS no problem. And yes, I
    > tried it first, before I replied to him ;-)
    >
    > Meindert
    >
    >
    >

    Thanks.
    mike
     
    Active8, Dec 17, 2003
    #11
  12. On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:19:42 GMT, the renowned Active8
    <,invalid> wrote:


    >Ah! *That's* what it did to me before. It did work with the 2 pin
    >Capture part. I did make a diagonal switch, too. I couldn't get the
    >pins that I wanted to hide without making them invisible power
    >pins, but now I don't have to. I'll just have to make text notes on
    >the schem regarding the fact that they're not really 2 pin
    >switches. Like that really matters.


    For this same problem, I tried putting shorts between internally
    connected pins in the footprint, but that was a BAD idea. I ended up
    using a 4-pin footprint with the connections shown on the schematic
    symbol because I insist on all 4 pins being connected (and who knows,
    I might do a SS layout someday where the jumper effect is useful).


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
    --
    "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
    Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
    Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
     
    Spehro Pefhany, Dec 17, 2003
    #12
  13. Active8

    Active8 Guest

    On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:52:18 GMT, what
    said...
    > On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:19:42 GMT, the renowned Active8
    > <,invalid> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >Ah! *That's* what it did to me before. It did work with the 2 pin
    > >Capture part. I did make a diagonal switch, too. I couldn't get the
    > >pins that I wanted to hide without making them invisible power
    > >pins, but now I don't have to. I'll just have to make text notes on
    > >the schem regarding the fact that they're not really 2 pin
    > >switches. Like that really matters.

    >
    > For this same problem, I tried putting shorts between internally
    > connected pins in the footprint, but that was a BAD idea. I ended up
    > using a 4-pin footprint with the connections shown on the schematic
    > symbol because I insist on all 4 pins being connected (and who knows,
    > I might do a SS layout someday where the jumper effect is useful).
    >
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Spehro Pefhany
    >

    SS? Super Spehro? SS doesn't do layout. What is SS "jumper effect."

    Mike
     
    Active8, Dec 18, 2003
    #13
  14. On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:20:34 GMT, the renowned Active8
    <,invalid> wrote:

    >On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:52:18 GMT, what
    >said...
    >> On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:19:42 GMT, the renowned Active8
    >> <,invalid> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> >Ah! *That's* what it did to me before. It did work with the 2 pin
    >> >Capture part. I did make a diagonal switch, too. I couldn't get the
    >> >pins that I wanted to hide without making them invisible power
    >> >pins, but now I don't have to. I'll just have to make text notes on
    >> >the schem regarding the fact that they're not really 2 pin
    >> >switches. Like that really matters.

    >>
    >> For this same problem, I tried putting shorts between internally
    >> connected pins in the footprint, but that was a BAD idea. I ended up
    >> using a 4-pin footprint with the connections shown on the schematic
    >> symbol because I insist on all 4 pins being connected (and who knows,
    >> I might do a SS layout someday where the jumper effect is useful).
    >>
    >>
    >> Best regards,
    >> Spehro Pefhany
    >>

    >SS? Super Spehro? SS doesn't do layout. What is SS "jumper effect."


    Ha. ;-)

    Single-sided. You can use the internal connections in the switches as
    jumpers to allow a single-sided X-Y matrix switch layout without
    having to add real jumpers.

    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
    --
    "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
    Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
    Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
     
    Spehro Pefhany, Dec 18, 2003
    #14
  15. Active8

    Active8 Guest

    On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 11:21:10 GMT, what
    said...
    > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 09:20:34 GMT, the renowned Active8
    > <,invalid> wrote:
    >
    > >On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 20:52:18 GMT, what
    > >said...
    > >> On Wed, 17 Dec 2003 10:19:42 GMT, the renowned Active8
    > >> <,invalid> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> >Ah! *That's* what it did to me before. It did work with the 2 pin
    > >> >Capture part. I did make a diagonal switch, too. I couldn't get the
    > >> >pins that I wanted to hide without making them invisible power
    > >> >pins, but now I don't have to. I'll just have to make text notes on
    > >> >the schem regarding the fact that they're not really 2 pin
    > >> >switches. Like that really matters.
    > >>
    > >> For this same problem, I tried putting shorts between internally
    > >> connected pins in the footprint, but that was a BAD idea. I ended up
    > >> using a 4-pin footprint with the connections shown on the schematic
    > >> symbol because I insist on all 4 pins being connected (and who knows,
    > >> I might do a SS layout someday where the jumper effect is useful).
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Best regards,
    > >> Spehro Pefhany
    > >>

    > >SS? Super Spehro? SS doesn't do layout. What is SS "jumper effect."

    >
    > Ha. ;-)
    >
    > Single-sided. You can use the internal connections in the switches as
    > jumpers to allow a single-sided X-Y matrix switch layout without
    > having to add real jumpers.
    >
    > Best regards,
    > Spehro Pefhany
    >

    Argh! I got a decent route with my 2 terminal switch symbol. I was
    manually routing the internally connected pins together and letting
    the router do the rest. I'm not going to have plated through holes
    right away, so I used route keep-outs to keep traces off the top
    layer where I can't solder.

    The schematic looks great with the diagonal switches. I wish I
    could hide the extra pins somehow. I don't want to make them hidden
    power pins 'cause that will foul things up later.

    Not sure what to do here. What do you do? The internal connection
    in the Capture symbol is *drawn*, but it's not really there.
    Connect both pins to the matrix and the router wants to connect
    them with a trace.

    BRs,
    Mike
     
    Active8, Dec 18, 2003
    #15
  16. On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:12:03 GMT, the renowned Active8
    <,invalid> wrote:

    >The schematic looks great with the diagonal switches. I wish I
    >could hide the extra pins somehow. I don't want to make them hidden
    >power pins 'cause that will foul things up later.


    Zero length line, passive?

    >Not sure what to do here. What do you do? The internal connection
    >in the Capture symbol is *drawn*, but it's not really there.
    >Connect both pins to the matrix and the router wants to connect
    >them with a trace.
    >
    >BRs,
    >Mike


    Best regards,
    Spehro Pefhany
    --
    "it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
    Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
    Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
     
    Spehro Pefhany, Dec 18, 2003
    #16
  17. Active8

    Active8 Guest

    On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 16:48:32 GMT, what
    said...
    > On Thu, 18 Dec 2003 14:12:03 GMT, the renowned Active8
    > <,invalid> wrote:
    >
    > >The schematic looks great with the diagonal switches. I wish I
    > >could hide the extra pins somehow. I don't want to make them hidden
    > >power pins 'cause that will foul things up later.

    >
    > Zero length line, passive?


    That's what I did. It still shows a terminal circle and then, you'd
    still have to have a way for the netlister to know it's connected
    to the other pin internally. For some reason, the "Display" button
    for display properties isn't enabled and that's how you're supposed
    to be able to set the visibility. Power pins are the only ones that
    allow the "pin visible" check box to be changed and that's in the
    first dialog. The Display button is in the pin user properties
    dialog.

    I think the only way to use the switch as a jumper is to manually
    route it. There's no way to tell the netlister what's going on,
    AFAIK. You'd have to decide which common terminal to route out to
    the next component and if the pin isn't in the netlist, the router
    would try to connect to the one that is. The only way to stop that
    is with a keep-out.

    I did just manage to place a zero length pin next to pin num 1 name
    1 and call it num 1, name 1. I was warned repeatedly when I tried
    to close the part editor and then asked to update or discard. I
    chose to discard and was repeatedly admonished again for the
    duplicate pin. They really do want you to remember not to do that,
    I guess.

    BRs,
    Mike
    >
    > >Not sure what to do here. What do you do? The internal connection
    > >in the Capture symbol is *drawn*, but it's not really there.
    > >Connect both pins to the matrix and the router wants to connect
    > >them with a trace.
    > >
    > >BRs,
    > >Mike

    >
    > Best regards,
    > Spehro Pefhany
    >
     
    Active8, Dec 18, 2003
    #17
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