Op-amp models in LT Spice

Discussion in 'CAD' started by Paul Burridge, Jan 31, 2004.

  1. Hi,

    Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models in the
    LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
    Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
    Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?
    When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever, does
    that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or only good
    for a narrow band around that figure?
    Finally, do none of the models 'care' about whether they're single or
    dual supply?
    Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which you don't
    have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not going to generate
    a board from the schematic, it just seems a nuisance to have to 'power
    them up.'

    Thanks,

    p
    --

    The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.
     
    Paul Burridge, Jan 31, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Paul Burridge

    Genome Guest

    "Paul Burridge" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi,
    >
    > Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models in the
    > LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
    > Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
    > Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?
    > When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever, does
    > that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or only good
    > for a narrow band around that figure?
    > Finally, do none of the models 'care' about whether they're single or
    > dual supply?
    > Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which you don't
    > have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not going to generate
    > a board from the schematic, it just seems a nuisance to have to 'power
    > them up.'
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > p
    > --
    >
    > The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.


    Like you say, you're opinion is worth exactly what I paid for it. When I
    reach a pennies worth of download time I'll consider taking you to court.

    In the meantime..... you, and others who wibble about with spice would do
    well to realise that the level at which you are capable of using it does not
    give you the right or ability to start putting 'real' models in. Especially
    when you ask the questions you ask.

    Keep it simple...... and learn some book stuff..... You know? AoE.

    Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
    source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
    controlled voltage source with a series resistor.

    Ain't I kind?

    DNA
     
    Genome, Jan 31, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Paul Burridge

    Leon Heller Guest

    Paul Burridge wrote:
    > Hi,
    >
    > Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models in the
    > LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
    > Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
    > Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?


    LT doesn't make anything remotely like the LM324 and 741. Why not find
    LM324 and 741 models and use them in LT Spice, if you must ise obsolete
    devices. I've got them with the Pulsonix (SIMetrix) SPICE that I use.


    > When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever, does
    > that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or only good
    > for a narrow band around that figure?


    It's the max. frequency. You usually get a graph of voltage gain against
    frequency in the data.

    > Finally, do none of the models 'care' about whether they're single or
    > dual supply?
    > Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which you don't
    > have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not going to generate
    > a board from the schematic, it just seems a nuisance to have to 'power
    > them up.'


    SPICE models of active devices usually require supplies. How would the
    simulation work, otherwise.

    Leon
    --
    Leon Heller, G1HSM
    Email:
    My low-cost Philips LPC210x ARM development system:
    http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller/lpc2104.html
     
    Leon Heller, Jan 31, 2004
    #3
  4. Leon Heller wrote:
    > Paul Burridge wrote:
    >
    >> Hi,
    >>
    >> Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models in the
    >> LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
    >> Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
    >> Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?

    >
    >
    > LT doesn't make anything remotely like the LM324 and 741. Why not find
    > LM324 and 741 models and use them in LT Spice, if you must ise obsolete
    > devices. I've got them with the Pulsonix (SIMetrix) SPICE that I use.
    >
    >
    >> When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever, does
    >> that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or only good
    >> for a narrow band around that figure?

    >
    >
    > It's the max. frequency. You usually get a graph of voltage gain against
    > frequency in the data.
    >
    >> Finally, do none of the models 'care' about whether they're single or
    >> dual supply?
    >> Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which you don't
    >> have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not going to generate
    >> a board from the schematic, it just seems a nuisance to have to 'power
    >> them up.'

    >
    >
    > SPICE models of active devices usually require supplies. How would the
    > simulation work, otherwise.


    Which doesn't mean that they accurately model the current drawn through
    the supply lines. I came across models that don't seem to take the
    current through the output into account. Which leaves you with a mostly
    constant quiescent current. Not very useful.

    --
    Cheers
    Stefan
     
    Stefan Heinzmann, Jan 31, 2004
    #4
  5. Paul Burridge

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:45:22 +0000, Leon Heller <>
    wrote:

    [snip]
    >SPICE models of active devices usually require supplies. How would the
    >simulation work, otherwise.
    >
    >Leon


    Since they are subcircuits you just specify a output swing (as a
    parameter).

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
     
    Jim Thompson, Jan 31, 2004
    #5
  6. "Paul Burridge" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hi,
    >
    > Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models in the
    > LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
    > Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
    > Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?
    > When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever, does
    > that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or only good
    > for a narrow band around that figure?
    > Finally, do none of the models 'care' about whether they're single or
    > dual supply?
    > Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which you don't
    > have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not going to generate
    > a board from the schematic, it just seems a nuisance to have to 'power
    > them up.'
    >
    > Thanks,
    >
    > p
    > --
    >
    > The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.


    Here are the models from the freeware version of CircuitMaker (based on
    Berkeley SPICE3f5/XSpice):

    *Sngl GenPurpose OpAmp pkg:DIP8 3,2,7,4,6
    ..SUBCKT XUA741 1 2 3 4 5
    C1 11 12 4.664E-12
    C2 6 7 20E-12
    DC 5 53 DX
    DE 54 5 DX
    DLP 90 91 DX
    DLN 92 90 DX
    DP 4 3 DX
    BGND 99 0 V=V(3)*.5 + V(4)*.5
    BB 7 99 I=I(VB)*10.61E6 - I(VC)*10E6 + I(VE)*10E6 +
    + I(VLP)*10E6 - I(VLN)*10E6
    GA 6 0 11 12 137.7E-6
    GCM 0 6 10 99 2.574E-9
    IEE 10 4 DC 10.16E-6
    HLIM 90 0 VLIM 1K
    Q1 11 2 13 QX
    Q2 12 1 14 QX
    R2 6 9 100E3
    RC1 3 11 7.957E3
    RC2 3 12 7.957E3
    RE1 13 10 2.74E3
    RE2 14 10 2.74E3
    REE 10 99 19.69E6
    RO1 8 5 150
    RO2 7 99 150
    RP 3 4 18.11E3
    VB 9 0 DC 0
    VC 3 53 DC 2.6
    VE 54 4 DC 2.6
    VLIM 7 8 DC 0
    VLP 91 0 DC 25
    VLN 0 92 DC 25
    ..MODEL DX D(IS=800E-18)
    ..MODEL QX NPN(IS=800E-18 BF=62.5)
    ..ENDS XUA741

    and

    *Quad LoPwr SnglSup OpAmp pkg:DIP14
    (A:3,2,4,11,1)(B:5,6,4,11,7)(C:10,9,4,11,8)(D:12,13,4,11,14)
    ..SUBCKT XLM324 1 2 3 4 5
    C1 11 12 5.544E-12
    C2 6 7 20E-12
    DC 5 53 DX
    DE 54 5 DX
    DLP 90 91 DX
    DLN 92 90 DX
    DP 4 3 DX
    BGND 99 0 V=V(3)*.5 + V(4)*.5
    BB 7 99 I=I(VB)*15.91E6 - I(VC)*20E6 + I(VE)*20E6 +
    + I(VLP)*20E6 - I(VLN)*20E6
    GA 6 0 11 12 125.7E-6
    GCM 0 6 10 99 7.067E-9
    IEE 3 10 DC 10.04E-6
    HLIM 90 0 VLIM 1K
    Q1 11 2 13 QX
    Q2 12 1 14 QX
    R2 6 9 100E3
    RC1 4 11 7.957E3
    RC2 4 12 7.957E3
    RE1 13 10 2.773E3
    RE2 14 10 2.773E3
    REE 10 99 19.92E6
    RO1 8 5 50
    RO2 7 99 50
    RP 3 4 30.31E3
    VB 9 0 DC 0
    VC 3 53 DC 2.1
    VE 54 4 DC .6
    VLIM 7 8 DC 0
    VLP 91 0 DC 40
    VLN 0 92 DC 40
    ..MODEL DX D(IS=800E-18)
    ..MODEL QX PNP(IS=800E-18 BF=250)
    ..ENDS XLM324
     
    Robert C Monsen, Jan 31, 2004
    #6
  7. Paul,

    > Just been flicking through the fairly generous range of models
    > in the LT op-amp library and have the following questions,,,
    > Which LT device model is most similar to the LM324?
    > Which LT device model is most similar to the 741?
    > When an LT device is described as "35Mhz" or "90Mhz" or whatever,
    > does that means it's good for anything up to that frequency or
    > only good for a narrow band around that figure?


    The easiest thing to do is use the symbol "1pole" and set the
    open loop voltage gain(Avol) and GBW to that of the target
    opamp's DC gain and GBW. There's been threads here about
    universal opamp models. You can of course also get a 3rd
    party LM324 model and run that in LTspice. See the help
    doc's for further info on how to do that.

    > Finally, finally, isn't there a model or set of models which
    > you don't have to connect up to a supply at all? If you're not
    > going to generate a board from the schematic, it just seems a
    > nuisance to have to 'power them up.'


    There is a symbol "opamp" that requires no supplies, but it isn't
    setup to automatically include the subcircuit definition so just
    a SPICE directive ".lib opamp.sub" to the schematic.

    --Mike
     
    Mike Engelhardt, Jan 31, 2004
    #7
  8. On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <>
    wrote:

    >Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
    >source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
    >controlled voltage source with a series resistor.
    >
    >Ain't I kind?


    More of a "hopeless old soak" I'd have said.
    --

    The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.
     
    Paul Burridge, Jan 31, 2004
    #8
  9. On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:45:25 GMT, "Robert C Monsen"
    <> wrote:

    >Here are the models from the freeware version of CircuitMaker (based on
    >Berkeley SPICE3f5/XSpice


    [snipped]

    Thanks, Robert.
    --

    The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.
     
    Paul Burridge, Jan 31, 2004
    #9
  10. Paul Burridge

    Joe Guest

    "Paul Burridge" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 20:45:25 GMT, "Robert C Monsen"
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >Here are the models from the freeware version of CircuitMaker (based on
    > >Berkeley SPICE3f5/XSpice

    >
    > [snipped]
    >
    > Thanks, Robert.
    > --
    >
    > The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.


    Hi Paul,

    Here's my model for the LM741 in LTSPICE. You should save it as a .mod file.
    I used the LT1013 as the .asy file and just renamed it. Helmut described in
    great detail how to do this in a thread subject of 'Need help with LTSPICE
    library' dated Aug 14, 2003 on this ng. I also have a model of the LM324
    opamp below. Its the same, a .MOD file. I got them both from National Semi.
    There's a yahoo group for LTSPICE as well. You should check it out.

    Have fun with LTSPICE.

    Joe



    *//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    * (C) National Semiconductor, Inc.
    * Models developed and under copyright by:
    * National Semiconductor, Inc.

    */////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    * Legal Notice: This material is intended for free software support.
    * The file may be copied, and distributed; however, reselling the
    * material is illegal

    *////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    * For ordering or technical information on these models, contact:
    * National Semiconductor's Customer Response Center
    * 7:00 A.M.--7:00 P.M. U.S. Central Time
    * (800) 272-9959
    * For Applications support, contact the Internet address:
    *

    *//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    *LM741 OPERATIONAL AMPLIFIER MACRO-MODEL
    *//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    *
    * connections: non-inverting input
    * | inverting input
    * | | positive power supply
    * | | | negative power supply
    * | | | | output
    * | | | | |
    * | | | | |
    ..SUBCKT LM741/NS 1 2 99 50 28
    *
    *Features:
    *Improved performance over industry standards
    *Plug-in replacement for LM709,LM201,MC1439,748
    *Input and output overload protection
    *
    ****************INPUT STAGE**************
    *
    IOS 2 1 20N
    *^Input offset current
    R1 1 3 250K
    R2 3 2 250K
    I1 4 50 100U
    R3 5 99 517
    R4 6 99 517
    Q1 5 2 4 QX
    Q2 6 7 4 QX
    *Fp2=2.55 MHz
    C4 5 6 60.3614P
    *
    ***********COMMON MODE EFFECT***********
    *
    I2 99 50 1.6MA
    *^Quiescent supply current
    EOS 7 1 POLY(1) 16 49 1E-3 1
    *Input offset voltage.^
    R8 99 49 40K
    R9 49 50 40K
    *
    *********OUTPUT VOLTAGE LIMITING********
    V2 99 8 1.63
    D1 9 8 DX
    D2 10 9 DX
    V3 10 50 1.63
    *
    **************SECOND STAGE**************
    *
    EH 99 98 99 49 1
    G1 98 9 5 6 2.1E-3
    *Fp1=5 Hz
    R5 98 9 95.493MEG
    C3 98 9 333.33P
    *
    ***************POLE STAGE***************
    *
    *Fp=30 MHz
    G3 98 15 9 49 1E-6
    R12 98 15 1MEG
    C5 98 15 5.3052E-15
    *
    *********COMMON-MODE ZERO STAGE*********
    *
    *Fpcm=300 Hz
    G4 98 16 3 49 3.1623E-8
    L2 98 17 530.5M
    R13 17 16 1K
    *
    **************OUTPUT STAGE**************
    *
    F6 50 99 POLY(1) V6 450U 1
    E1 99 23 99 15 1
    R16 24 23 25
    D5 26 24 DX
    V6 26 22 0.65V
    R17 23 25 25
    D6 25 27 DX
    V7 22 27 0.65V
    V5 22 21 0.18V
    D4 21 15 DX
    V4 20 22 0.18V
    D3 15 20 DX
    L3 22 28 100P
    RL3 22 28 100K
    *
    ***************MODELS USED**************
    *
    ..MODEL DX D(IS=1E-15)
    ..MODEL QX NPN(BF=625)
    *
    ..ENDS
    *$


    *//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    * (C) National Semiconductor, Inc.
    * Models developed and under copyright by:
    * National Semiconductor, Inc.

    */////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    * Legal Notice: This material is intended for free software support.
    * The file may be copied, and distributed; however, reselling the
    * material is illegal

    *////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    * For ordering or technical information on these models, contact:
    * National Semiconductor's Customer Response Center
    * 7:00 A.M.--7:00 P.M. U.S. Central Time
    * (800) 272-9959
    * For Applications support, contact the Internet address:
    *

    *//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    *LM324 Low Power Quad OPERATIONAL AMPLIFIER MACRO-MODEL
    *//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
    *
    * connections: non-inverting input
    * | inverting input
    * | | positive power supply
    * | | | negative power supply
    * | | | | output
    * | | | | |
    * | | | | |
    ..SUBCKT LM324/NS 1 2 99 50 28
    *
    *Features:
    *Eliminates need for dual supplies
    *Large DC voltage gain = 100dB
    *High bandwidth = 1MHz
    *Low input offset voltage = 2mV
    *Wide supply range = +-1.5V to +-16V
    *
    *NOTE: Model is for single device only and simulated
    * supply current is 1/4 of total device current.
    * Output crossover distortion with dual supplies
    * is not modeled.
    *
    ****************INPUT STAGE**************
    *
    IOS 2 1 5N
    *^Input offset current
    R1 1 3 500K
    R2 3 2 500K
    I1 99 4 100U
    R3 5 50 517
    R4 6 50 517
    Q1 5 2 4 QX
    Q2 6 7 4 QX
    *Fp2=1.2 MHz
    C4 5 6 128.27P
    *
    ***********COMMON MODE EFFECT***********
    *
    I2 99 50 75U
    *^Quiescent supply current
    EOS 7 1 POLY(1) 16 49 2E-3 1
    *Input offset voltage.^
    R8 99 49 60K
    R9 49 50 60K
    *
    *********OUTPUT VOLTAGE LIMITING********
    V2 99 8 1.63
    D1 9 8 DX
    D2 10 9 DX
    V3 10 50 .635
    *
    **************SECOND STAGE**************
    *
    EH 99 98 99 49 1
    G1 98 9 POLY(1) 5 6 0 9.8772E-4 0 .3459
    *Fp1=7.86 Hz
    R5 98 9 101.2433MEG
    C3 98 9 200P
    *
    ***************POLE STAGE***************
    *
    *Fp=2 MHz
    G3 98 15 9 49 1E-6
    R12 98 15 1MEG
    C5 98 15 7.9577E-14
    *
    *********COMMON-MODE ZERO STAGE*********
    *
    *Fpcm=10 KHz
    G4 98 16 3 49 5.6234E-8
    L2 98 17 15.9M
    R13 17 16 1K
    *
    **************OUTPUT STAGE**************
    *
    F6 50 99 POLY(1) V6 300U 1
    E1 99 23 99 15 1
    R16 24 23 17.5
    D5 26 24 DX
    V6 26 22 .63V
    R17 23 25 17.5
    D6 25 27 DX
    V7 22 27 .63V
    V5 22 21 0.27V
    D4 21 15 DX
    V4 20 22 0.27V
    D3 15 20 DX
    L3 22 28 500P
    RL3 22 28 100K
    *
    ***************MODELS USED**************
    *
    ..MODEL DX D(IS=1E-15)
    ..MODEL QX PNP(BF=1.111E3)
    *
    ..ENDS
    *$
     
    Joe, Feb 1, 2004
    #10
  11. On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 02:51:32 GMT, "Joe"
    <> wrote:

    >Hi Paul,
    >
    >Here's my model for the LM741 in LTSPICE. You should save it as a .mod file.
    >I used the LT1013 as the .asy file and just renamed it. Helmut described in
    >great detail how to do this in a thread subject of 'Need help with LTSPICE
    >library' dated Aug 14, 2003 on this ng. I also have a model of the LM324
    >opamp below. Its the same, a .MOD file. I got them both from National Semi.


    Thanks, Joe. Those models should be very useful.

    >There's a yahoo group for LTSPICE as well. You should check it out.


    Will do.
    --

    The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.
     
    Paul Burridge, Feb 1, 2004
    #11
  12. Paul Burridge

    Syd Rumpo Guest

    In message <>, Paul Burridge
    <> writes
    >On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
    >>source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
    >>controlled voltage source with a series resistor.
    >>
    >>Ain't I kind?

    >
    >More of a "hopeless old soak" I'd have said.


    Neither hopeless nor old. If you wish to learn, listen to your betters
    and accept that they are as they are. That includes Auntie: she is
    watching you.

    --
    Syd
     
    Syd Rumpo, Feb 1, 2004
    #12
  13. Paul Burridge

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:01:37 +0000, Syd Rumpo <>
    wrote:

    >In message <>, Paul Burridge
    ><> writes
    >>On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
    >>>source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
    >>>controlled voltage source with a series resistor.
    >>>
    >>>Ain't I kind?

    >>
    >>More of a "hopeless old soak" I'd have said.

    >
    >Neither hopeless nor old. If you wish to learn, listen to your betters
    >and accept that they are as they are. That includes Auntie: she is
    >watching you.


    Good one, Syd!

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
     
    Jim Thompson, Feb 1, 2004
    #13
  14. On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:20:16 -0700, Jim Thompson
    <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:01:37 +0000, Syd Rumpo <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>In message <>, Paul Burridge
    >><> writes
    >>>On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <>
    >>>wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
    >>>>source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
    >>>>controlled voltage source with a series resistor.
    >>>>
    >>>>Ain't I kind?
    >>>
    >>>More of a "hopeless old soak" I'd have said.

    >>
    >>Neither hopeless nor old.


    Obnoxious dypsomaniac, then.

    > If you wish to learn, listen to your betters
    >>and accept that they are as they are.


    And who the hell are *you* to lecture me? I respect people who are
    informative and polite. I tolerate people who are informative but
    impolite; I'll treat people with neither knowledge nor manners with
    the contempt they deserve. That includes you.

    >That includes Auntie: she is
    >>watching you.

    >
    >Good one, Syd!


    Says someone who doesn't even know who or what "Auntie" is. Best stick
    with what you know, Jim.
    --

    The BBC: Licensed at public expense to spread lies.
     
    Paul Burridge, Feb 1, 2004
    #14
  15. Paul Burridge

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 23:41:13 +0000, Paul Burridge
    <> wrote:

    >On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:20:16 -0700, Jim Thompson
    ><> wrote:
    >
    >>On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:01:37 +0000, Syd Rumpo <>
    >>wrote:
    >>
    >>>In message <>, Paul Burridge
    >>><> writes
    >>>>On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <>
    >>>>wrote:
    >>>>
    >>>>>Ignoring your initial dribble you might try a voltage controlled current
    >>>>>source with a parallel RC network on its output followed by a voltage
    >>>>>controlled voltage source with a series resistor.
    >>>>>
    >>>>>Ain't I kind?
    >>>>
    >>>>More of a "hopeless old soak" I'd have said.
    >>>
    >>>Neither hopeless nor old.

    >
    >Obnoxious dypsomaniac, then.
    >
    >> If you wish to learn, listen to your betters
    >>>and accept that they are as they are.

    >
    >And who the hell are *you* to lecture me? I respect people who are
    >informative and polite. I tolerate people who are informative but
    >impolite; I'll treat people with neither knowledge nor manners with
    >the contempt they deserve. That includes you.
    >
    >>That includes Auntie: she is
    >>>watching you.

    >>
    >>Good one, Syd!

    >
    >Says someone who doesn't even know who or what "Auntie" is. Best stick
    >with what you know, Jim.


    Poor Paul, You still don't understand that Genome has more mental
    capacity in his pinky finger than you have if you surround yourself
    with all your friends ;-)

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
     
    Jim Thompson, Feb 2, 2004
    #15
  16. Paul Burridge

    Syd Rumpo Guest

    In message <>, Paul Burridge
    <> writes

    >And who the hell are *you* to lecture me?


    I don't have the inclination to engage in a battle of wits with an
    unarmed man. This correspondence is now closed.


    --
    Syd
     
    Syd Rumpo, Feb 2, 2004
    #16
  17. Paul Burridge

    Bill Sloman Guest

    Paul Burridge <> wrote in message news:<>...
    > On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 15:20:16 -0700, Jim Thompson
    > <> wrote:
    >
    > >On Sun, 1 Feb 2004 22:01:37 +0000, Syd Rumpo <>
    > >wrote:
    > >
    > >>In message <>, Paul Burridge
    > >><> writes
    > >>>On Sat, 31 Jan 2004 19:44:25 -0000, "Genome" <>


    <snip>

    > >That includes Auntie: she is
    > >>watching you.

    > >
    > >Good one, Syd!

    >
    > Says someone who doesn't even know who or what "Auntie" is. Best stick
    > with what you know, Jim.


    Paul, if you think that "Auntie" is "Licensed at public expense to
    spread lies"
    you don't know who or what "Auntie" is either. You'd better give up
    reading right-wing newspapers for a while ...

    -------
    Bill Sloman, Nijmegen
     
    Bill Sloman, Feb 2, 2004
    #17
  18. Paul Burridge

    Chris Carlen Guest

    Jim Thompson wrote:
    > On Sun, 01 Feb 2004 23:41:13 +0000, Paul Burridge
    > <> wrote:
    >>And who the hell are *you* to lecture me? I respect people who are
    >>informative and polite. I tolerate people who are informative but
    >>impolite; I'll treat people with neither knowledge nor manners with
    >>the contempt they deserve. That includes you.
    >>
    >>
    >>>That includes Auntie: she is
    >>>
    >>>>watching you.
    >>>
    >>>Good one, Syd!

    >>
    >>Says someone who doesn't even know who or what "Auntie" is. Best stick
    >>with what you know, Jim.

    >
    >
    > Poor Paul, You still don't understand that Genome has more mental
    > capacity in his pinky finger than you have if you surround yourself
    > with all your friends ;-)
    >
    > ...Jim Thompson



    I have to agree with Paul on this instance. His point is that he'd
    rather not be denigrated whether or not someone else has superior
    knowledge. To assume that anyone including Paul *needs* help from
    someone who is obnoxious is unfounded. There are plently of
    knowledgeable *and* polite folks around to pick up the slack.

    In my case, I come here to s.e.d to accelerate the finding of solutions
    to problems. That I *need* anyone's help is usually false, as I can
    figure things out for myself if I want. I have yet to fail at designing
    *anything* I have set out to do, whether or not I sought help and
    whether not I listened to help that was offered. Thus, I will promptly
    ignore anyone who doesn't treat me with respect. Where I work, I am
    respected. I don't have to go around groveling at the feet of giants to
    get mentorship. Neither should Paul.


    Good day!


    --
    ____________________________________
    Christopher R. Carlen
    Principal Laser/Optical Technologist
    Sandia National Laboratories CA USA
     
    Chris Carlen, Feb 2, 2004
    #18
  19. Paul Burridge

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On Mon, 02 Feb 2004 10:37:34 -0800, Chris Carlen
    <> wrote:

    >Jim Thompson wrote:

    [snip]
    >> Poor Paul, You still don't understand that Genome has more mental
    >> capacity in his pinky finger than you have if you surround yourself
    >> with all your friends ;-)
    >>
    >> ...Jim Thompson

    >
    >
    >I have to agree with Paul on this instance. His point is that he'd
    >rather not be denigrated whether or not someone else has superior
    >knowledge. To assume that anyone including Paul *needs* help from
    >someone who is obnoxious is unfounded. There are plently of
    >knowledgeable *and* polite folks around to pick up the slack.
    >
    >In my case, I come here to s.e.d to accelerate the finding of solutions
    >to problems. That I *need* anyone's help is usually false, as I can
    >figure things out for myself if I want. I have yet to fail at designing
    >*anything* I have set out to do, whether or not I sought help and
    >whether not I listened to help that was offered. Thus, I will promptly
    >ignore anyone who doesn't treat me with respect. Where I work, I am
    >respected. I don't have to go around groveling at the feet of giants to
    >get mentorship. Neither should Paul.
    >
    >
    >Good day!


    I pick at Paul because he's also rude. If he wants to be treated with
    respect he needs to act accordingly.

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.
     
    Jim Thompson, Feb 2, 2004
    #19
  20. I read in sci.electronics.design that Chris Carlen
    <> wrote (in <>)
    about 'Op-amp models in LT Spice', on Mon, 2 Feb 2004:
    >I have to agree with Paul on this instance. His point is that he'd
    >rather not be denigrated whether or not someone else has superior
    >knowledge.


    of course.

    >To assume that anyone including Paul *needs* help from
    >someone who is obnoxious is unfounded. There are plently of
    >knowledgeable *and* polite folks around to pick up the slack.


    Well, not all are of the quality of Fred Bloggs, or Genome when he's on
    this planet.
    >
    >In my case, I come here to s.e.d to accelerate the finding of solutions
    >to problems. That I *need* anyone's help is usually false, as I can
    >figure things out for myself if I want. I have yet to fail at designing
    >*anything* I have set out to do, whether or not I sought help and
    >whether not I listened to help that was offered. Thus, I will promptly
    >ignore anyone who doesn't treat me with respect.


    That may be a counsel of perfection.

    > Where I work, I am
    >respected. I don't have to go around groveling at the feet of giants to
    >get mentorship.


    No-one expects you to grovel. But it is not logical to ignore good
    advice because it comes with an irrelevant and distasteful burden.

    > Neither should Paul.


    Ah, well, there are special cases, who tend to get what they deserve.
    --
    Regards, John Woodgate, OOO - Own Opinions Only.
    The good news is that nothing is compulsory.
    The bad news is that everything is prohibited.
    http://www.jmwa.demon.co.uk Also see http://www.isce.org.uk
     
    John Woodgate, Feb 2, 2004
    #20
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