New Stator Coil Design

Discussion in 'Home Power and Microgeneration' started by Jim Rojas, Nov 22, 2010.

  1. Jim Rojas

    Jim Rojas Guest

    I am working on a new stator coil design that basically utilizes more of
    the magnetic flux for more power.

    The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft. Coil
    1 faces N mag, coil 2 faces S mag. This is like the secretive Sundance's
    motor design, but in much smaller scale.

    If the math works right, this should yield 2-3 times more power. The
    downside is it can only be fully utilized with a cogged magnetic core.
    This is not a problem if you are using higher RPM like my setup. This is
    not recommended for wind systems.

    12 magnets, 6 dual core stators in Wye or Delta...the choice is yours.
    If you need alot more power, you can add a 2nd set of stator coils on
    the opposite side or stack them. Or you can just use bigger & thicker
    mags & coils on a larger stator base. On any of these coil setups, try
    to use anything larger than 22-18 gauge mag wire.

    By adding this in combination to a pulse width motor or a trigger coil,
    it will generate alot more power than any Bedeni circuit possibly can.


    Jim Rojas
    Jim Rojas, Nov 22, 2010
    #1
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  2. Jim Rojas

    Jim Rojas Guest

    Jim Rojas wrote:
    > The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft.
    > try to use anything larger than 22-18 gauge mag wire.


    Corrections:

    The core consists of 2 coils on a single U shaped iron core shaft.
    Try NOT to use anything larger than 22-18 gauge mag wire.

    Jim Rojas
    Jim Rojas, Nov 22, 2010
    #2
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  3. Jim Rojas

    Josepi Guest

    Bedini circuits do not generate any power.


    "Jim Rojas" <> wrote in message
    news:YxzGo.36868$...
    I am working on a new stator coil design that basically utilizes more of
    the magnetic flux for more power.

    The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft. Coil
    1 faces N mag, coil 2 faces S mag. This is like the secretive Sundance's
    motor design, but in much smaller scale.

    If the math works right, this should yield 2-3 times more power. The
    downside is it can only be fully utilized with a cogged magnetic core.
    This is not a problem if you are using higher RPM like my setup. This is
    not recommended for wind systems.

    12 magnets, 6 dual core stators in Wye or Delta...the choice is yours.
    If you need alot more power, you can add a 2nd set of stator coils on
    the opposite side or stack them. Or you can just use bigger & thicker
    mags & coils on a larger stator base. On any of these coil setups, try
    to use anything larger than 22-18 gauge mag wire.

    By adding this in combination to a pulse width motor or a trigger coil,
    it will generate alot more power than any Bedeni circuit possibly can.


    Jim Rojas
    Josepi, Nov 23, 2010
    #3
  4. Jim Rojas

    Jim Rojas Guest

    Josepi wrote:
    > Bedini circuits do not generate any power.
    >
    >
    > "Jim Rojas"<> wrote in message
    > news:YxzGo.36868$...
    > I am working on a new stator coil design that basically utilizes more of
    > the magnetic flux for more power.
    >
    > The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft. Coil
    > 1 faces N mag, coil 2 faces S mag. This is like the secretive Sundance's
    > motor design, but in much smaller scale.
    >
    > If the math works right, this should yield 2-3 times more power. The
    > downside is it can only be fully utilized with a cogged magnetic core.
    > This is not a problem if you are using higher RPM like my setup. This is
    > not recommended for wind systems.
    >
    > 12 magnets, 6 dual core stators in Wye or Delta...the choice is yours.
    > If you need alot more power, you can add a 2nd set of stator coils on
    > the opposite side or stack them. Or you can just use bigger& thicker
    > mags& coils on a larger stator base. On any of these coil setups, try
    > to use anything larger than 22-18 gauge mag wire.
    >
    > By adding this in combination to a pulse width motor or a trigger coil,
    > it will generate alot more power than any Bedeni circuit possibly can.
    >
    >
    > Jim Rojas
    >
    >


    I was referring to the trigger coils he uses to spin the magnets. This
    can be refined to provide much higher RPM's. By adding 4+ trigger coils,
    and a little more flywheel weight, you can get 3000-6000+ RPMs without
    that much trouble.

    An easier way to do it is to use an AC drive controller and a standard
    car alternator, an RC hobby motor, or a 1/2 HP 3Phase electric motor.

    Jim Rojas
    Jim Rojas, Nov 23, 2010
    #4
  5. Jim Rojas

    amdx Guest

    "Jim Rojas" <> wrote in message
    news:YxzGo.36868$...
    >I am working on a new stator coil design that basically utilizes more of
    >the magnetic flux for more power.
    >
    > The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft. Coil 1
    > faces N mag, coil 2 faces S mag. This is like the secretive Sundance's
    > motor design, but in much smaller scale.



    > If the math works right, this should yield 2-3 times more power.


    I hate to bust your bubble but as far as I know motors and generators are
    already
    over 80% efficient, I've seen 94% for some motors. I don't see that there is
    room
    for a 2-3 times improvement.
    Sorry, MikeK
    amdx, Nov 24, 2010
    #5
  6. Jim Rojas

    Jim Rojas Guest

    amdx wrote:
    > "Jim Rojas"<> wrote in message
    > news:YxzGo.36868$...
    >> I am working on a new stator coil design that basically utilizes more of
    >> the magnetic flux for more power.
    >>
    >> The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft. Coil 1
    >> faces N mag, coil 2 faces S mag. This is like the secretive Sundance's
    >> motor design, but in much smaller scale.

    >
    >
    >> If the math works right, this should yield 2-3 times more power.

    >
    > I hate to bust your bubble but as far as I know motors and generators are
    > already
    > over 80% efficient, I've seen 94% for some motors. I don't see that there is
    > room
    > for a 2-3 times improvement.
    > Sorry, MikeK
    >
    >


    We are talking about generating more power from stators, not running
    motors with conventional methods.

    Jim Rojas
    Technical Manuals Online!
    http://www.tech-man.com
    8002 Cornwall Lane
    Tampa, FL 33615-4604
    813-884-6335
    Jim Rojas, Nov 24, 2010
    #6
  7. Jim Rojas

    amdx Guest

    "Jim Rojas" <> wrote in message
    news:i8gHo.14685$...
    > amdx wrote:
    >> "Jim Rojas"<> wrote in message
    >> news:YxzGo.36868$...
    >>> I am working on a new stator coil design that basically utilizes more of
    >>> the magnetic flux for more power.
    >>>
    >>> The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft. Coil
    >>> 1
    >>> faces N mag, coil 2 faces S mag. This is like the secretive Sundance's
    >>> motor design, but in much smaller scale.

    >>
    >>
    >>> If the math works right, this should yield 2-3 times more power.

    >>
    >> I hate to bust your bubble but as far as I know motors and generators
    >> are
    >> already
    >> over 80% efficient, I've seen 94% for some motors. I don't see that there
    >> is
    >> room
    >> for a 2-3 times improvement.
    >> Sorry, MikeK
    >>
    >>

    >
    > We are talking about generating more power from stators, not running
    > motors with conventional methods.


    So is your objective to increase the amount of power put out by a
    generator at a certain rpm?
    Or, Do you want to take a 300 watt generator at max rpm and add
    magnets to make it a 600 watt generator?
    MikeK
    amdx, Nov 25, 2010
    #7
  8. Jim Rojas

    Jim Rojas Guest

    amdx wrote:
    > "Jim Rojas"<> wrote in message
    > news:i8gHo.14685$...
    >> amdx wrote:
    >>> "Jim Rojas"<> wrote in message
    >>> news:YxzGo.36868$...
    >>>> I am working on a new stator coil design that basically utilizes more of
    >>>> the magnetic flux for more power.
    >>>>
    >>>> The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft. Coil
    >>>> 1
    >>>> faces N mag, coil 2 faces S mag. This is like the secretive Sundance's
    >>>> motor design, but in much smaller scale.
    >>>
    >>>
    >>>> If the math works right, this should yield 2-3 times more power.
    >>>
    >>> I hate to bust your bubble but as far as I know motors and generators
    >>> are
    >>> already
    >>> over 80% efficient, I've seen 94% for some motors. I don't see that there
    >>> is
    >>> room
    >>> for a 2-3 times improvement.
    >>> Sorry, MikeK
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> We are talking about generating more power from stators, not running
    >> motors with conventional methods.

    >
    > So is your objective to increase the amount of power put out by a
    > generator at a certain rpm?
    > Or, Do you want to take a 300 watt generator at max rpm and add
    > magnets to make it a 600 watt generator?
    > MikeK
    >
    >


    With conventional stator coils, you do not capture all of the magnetic
    flux because there isn't anything to attract or contain it. By using a
    steel core in the center of the coil, you are focusing more magnetic
    flux to a single point. Thus, more output from your coils.

    If you are using a 1 inch magnet, the steel core must be no smaller than
    a 1/2 inch. The larger the magnet, the larger the steel core has to be,
    otherwise magnetic flux will be lost.

    So a 1 inch core, using 1/2 inch steel core, then you wind coils at no
    more than 100 turns, should give you 2-3 times the normal output.

    Jim Rojas
    Jim Rojas, Nov 25, 2010
    #8
  9. Jim Rojas

    Jim Rojas Guest

    Michael B wrote:
    > On Nov 22, 2:31 pm, Jim Rojas<> wrote:
    >> I am working on a new stator coil design that basically utilizes more of
    >> the magnetic flux for more power.
    >>
    >> The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft. Coil
    >> 1 faces N mag, coil 2 faces S mag. This is like the secretive Sundance's
    >> motor design, but in much smaller scale.

    >
    >> Jim Rojas

    >
    > So what are the real details about the Hummingbird
    > motor and the Sundance generator?


    From what I understand, the hummingbird motor uses powerful Neodymium
    magnets to create more horsepower, but it still requires power to push
    it. 3 phase AC using an AC drive controller would be more efficient.

    The Sundance generator uses 3+ x 1+ inch permanent magnets and what
    looks like a U shape stator coil. Magnets in this size, generate 300+
    pounds of pull force. The magnetic rotor is in the middle. 2 sets of
    stators are on each side. I like the idea of being able to replace any
    stator that fails, but in their video, it's not that simple to
    replace...since the stator does have a iron core, it will take a tool to
    separate it. This is something their video doesn't mention, but if you
    think about the forces in play here, it makes more sense.

    You really don't need to use 3 inch mags to produce good power, plus
    those mags will set you back alot of green. I suggest you start off with
    1 x 1/2 inch mags, with countersunk holes, so you can experiment. You
    can always stack mags to get more power. You can buy 1x1x1/2 block or
    round mags for under $8 each. Make sure you use brass screws or bolts to
    mount them. Some stainless steel screws are non magnetic. Test the
    screws with a small magnet before you buy them.

    Jim Rojas
    Jim Rojas, Nov 26, 2010
    #9
  10. Jim Rojas

    Jim Rojas Guest

    Michael B wrote:
    > On Nov 22, 2:31 pm, Jim Rojas<> wrote:
    >> I am working on a new stator coil design that basically utilizes more of
    >> the magnetic flux for more power.
    >>
    >> The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft. Coil
    >> 1 faces N mag, coil 2 faces S mag. This is like the secretive Sundance's
    >> motor design, but in much smaller scale.
    >>
    >> If the math works right, this should yield 2-3 times more power. The
    >> downside is it can only be fully utilized with a cogged magnetic core.
    >> This is not a problem if you are using higher RPM like my setup. This is
    >> not recommended for wind systems.
    >>
    >> 12 magnets, 6 dual core stators in Wye or Delta...the choice is yours.
    >> If you need alot more power, you can add a 2nd set of stator coils on
    >> the opposite side or stack them. Or you can just use bigger& thicker
    >> mags& coils on a larger stator base. On any of these coil setups, try
    >> to use anything larger than 22-18 gauge mag wire.
    >>
    >> By adding this in combination to a pulse width motor or a trigger coil,
    >> it will generate alot more power than any Bedeni circuit possibly can.
    >>
    >> Jim Rojas

    >
    > Are you aware of the Etek motor from Briggs& Stratton?


    Yes. It is basically an alternator converted into a motor using
    permanent magnets. You can do this yourself for a fraction of the cost.

    I like to use the AC Delco AD244 alternator, because the electronics can
    be accessed without taking the rotor out for servicing.

    You must remove the rotor coil and brushes. Replace them with as many 3
    inch neomags as you can fit in there. My guess would be 2 or 3 one inch
    thick. This will create 400+ lbs of pulling force. You can use cylinder
    neomags, by inserting them one at a time and stacking them in the same
    fashion.

    If you leave it as is, it now becomes a low cut in RPM very high output
    alternator. You should get 2-3 times the overall rated amps at idle
    speed (800-1000RPM).

    If you wish to convert it into a motor, you must remove the diode packs
    and voltage regulator. Connect the 3 phase outputs to an 5+HP rated AC
    drive. This now becomes equivalent to a 5-10HP motor.

    Jim Rojas
    Jim Rojas, Nov 27, 2010
    #10
  11. Jim Rojas

    Jim Rojas Guest

    Michael B wrote:
    > On Nov 22, 2:31 pm, Jim Rojas<> wrote:
    >> I am working on a new stator coil design that basically utilizes more of
    >> the magnetic flux for more power.
    >>
    >> The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft. Coil
    >> 1 faces N mag, coil 2 faces S mag. This is like the secretive Sundance's
    >> motor design, but in much smaller scale.
    >>
    >> If the math works right, this should yield 2-3 times more power. The
    >> downside is it can only be fully utilized with a cogged magnetic core.
    >> This is not a problem if you are using higher RPM like my setup. This is
    >> not recommended for wind systems.
    >>
    >> 12 magnets, 6 dual core stators in Wye or Delta...the choice is yours.
    >> If you need alot more power, you can add a 2nd set of stator coils on
    >> the opposite side or stack them. Or you can just use bigger& thicker
    >> mags& coils on a larger stator base. On any of these coil setups, try
    >> to use anything larger than 22-18 gauge mag wire.
    >>
    >> By adding this in combination to a pulse width motor or a trigger coil,
    >> it will generate alot more power than any Bedeni circuit possibly can.
    >>
    >> Jim Rojas

    >
    > Are you aware of the Etek motor from Briggs& Stratton?


    Yes. It is basically an alternator converted into a motor using
    permanent magnets. You can do this yourself for a fraction of the cost.

    I like to use the AC Delco AD244 alternator, because the electronics can
    be accessed without taking the rotor out for servicing.

    You must remove the rotor coil and brushes. Replace them with as many 3
    inch neomags as you can fit in there. My guess would be 2 or 3 one inch
    thick. This will create 400+ lbs of pulling force. You can use cylinder
    neomags, by inserting them one at a time and stacking them in the same
    fashion.

    If you leave it as is, it now becomes a low cut in RPM very high output
    alternator. You should get 2-3 times the overall rated amps at idle
    speed (800-1000RPM).

    If you wish to convert it into a motor, you must remove the diode packs
    and voltage regulator. Connect the 3 phase outputs to an 5+HP rated AC
    drive. This now becomes equivalent to a 5-10HP motor.

    Jim Rojas
    Jim Rojas, Nov 27, 2010
    #11
  12. Jim Rojas

    Jim Rojas Guest

    Michael B wrote:
    > On Nov 22, 2:31 pm, Jim Rojas<> wrote:
    >> I am working on a new stator coil design that basically utilizes more of
    >> the magnetic flux for more power.
    >>
    >> The core consists of 2 U shaped coils on a single iron core shaft. Coil
    >> 1 faces N mag, coil 2 faces S mag. This is like the secretive Sundance's
    >> motor design, but in much smaller scale.
    >>
    >> If the math works right, this should yield 2-3 times more power. The
    >> downside is it can only be fully utilized with a cogged magnetic core.
    >> This is not a problem if you are using higher RPM like my setup. This is
    >> not recommended for wind systems.
    >>
    >> 12 magnets, 6 dual core stators in Wye or Delta...the choice is yours.
    >> If you need alot more power, you can add a 2nd set of stator coils on
    >> the opposite side or stack them. Or you can just use bigger& thicker
    >> mags& coils on a larger stator base. On any of these coil setups, try
    >> to use anything larger than 22-18 gauge mag wire.
    >>
    >> By adding this in combination to a pulse width motor or a trigger coil,
    >> it will generate alot more power than any Bedeni circuit possibly can.
    >>
    >> Jim Rojas

    >
    > Are you aware of the Etek motor from Briggs& Stratton?



    Yes. It is basically an alternator converted into a motor using
    permanent magnets. You can do this yourself for a fraction of the cost.

    I like to use the AC Delco AD244 alternator, because the electronics can
    be accessed without taking the rotor out for servicing.

    You must remove the rotor coil and brushes. Replace them with as many 3
    inch neomags as you can fit in there. My guess would be 2 or 3 one inch
    thick. This will create 400+ lbs of pulling force. You can use cylinder
    neomags, by inserting them one at a time and stacking them in the same
    fashion.

    If you leave it as is, it now becomes a low cut in RPM very high output
    alternator. You should get 2-3 times the overall rated amps at idle
    speed (800-1000RPM).

    If you wish to convert it into a motor, you must remove the diode packs
    and voltage regulator. Connect the 3 phase outputs to an 5+HP rated AC
    drive. This now becomes equivalent to a 5-10HP motor.

    Jim Rojas


    --
    Jim Rojas
    Technical Manuals Online!
    http://www.tech-man.com
    8002 Cornwall Lane
    Tampa, FL 33615-4604
    813-884-6335
    Jim Rojas, Nov 27, 2010
    #12
  13. Jim Rojas

    Jim Rojas Guest

    Michael B wrote:
    > On Nov 26, 9:58 pm, Jim Rojas<> wrote:
    >
    >>> Are you aware of the Etek motor from Briggs& Stratton?

    >>
    >> Yes. It is basically an alternator converted into a motor using
    >> permanent magnets. You can do this yourself for a fraction of the cost.

    >
    > The Etek was an excellent motor with a wide range of applications,
    > but they simply stopped making it after about three years. No damn
    > wonder this is becoming a third-world country.



    Most of our problems it seems that we cannot make anything here in the
    USA without a huge price tag. You see these Eteks sell starting at the
    $500 range. A standard AC Delco alternator retails for $99-$149. Neomags
    to do the conversion, add another $100-150.

    I could make an $1400 etek motor for about $450 tops. And that is buying
    all the parts retail.

    Jim Rojas
    Jim Rojas, Nov 27, 2010
    #13
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