NEC 820-40

Discussion in 'Electrical Engineering' started by Kilowatt, Jan 7, 2004.

  1. Kilowatt

    Kilowatt Guest

    The satellite guys say that because they have connected their ground wire
    into the AC disconnect that they are grounded according to NEC. I say they
    have to drive a 8' ground rod and bond this to the service. I don't have a
    code book and every article I have found is not really clear how this is
    done.

    Anyone want to comment?


    --
    Put "private" in the subject line.
    Kilowatt, Jan 7, 2004
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. Kilowatt

    SQLit Guest

    "Kilowatt" <> wrote in message
    news:Zy0Lb.9245$...
    > The satellite guys say that because they have connected their ground wire
    > into the AC disconnect that they are grounded according to NEC. I say

    they
    > have to drive a 8' ground rod and bond this to the service. I don't have

    a
    > code book and every article I have found is not really clear how this is
    > done.
    >
    > Anyone want to comment?
    >
    >
    > --
    > Put "private" in the subject line.
    >
    >

    From what I read
    I believe you already have a grounding electrode for you home right? If
    they carried a #14 or larger ground wire out to the dish and connected that
    ground wire in your service I think you covered.

    An additional ground rod is a messy business.
    SQLit, Jan 7, 2004
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Kilowatt

    Kilowatt Guest

    Isn't the key connecting it to the service? They have an insulated 8
    stranded draped over the side of the house swinging and then striped and
    rapped around the lock hole in the AC disconnect.

    They should either drive a ground rod below the dish or run the conductor to
    the service panel. Right?


    "SQLit" <> wrote in message
    news:6I0Lb.34454$i55.10125@fed1read06...
    >
    > "Kilowatt" <> wrote in message
    > news:Zy0Lb.9245$...
    > > The satellite guys say that because they have connected their ground

    wire
    > > into the AC disconnect that they are grounded according to NEC. I say

    > they
    > > have to drive a 8' ground rod and bond this to the service. I don't

    have
    > a
    > > code book and every article I have found is not really clear how this is
    > > done.
    > >
    > > Anyone want to comment?
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Put "private" in the subject line.
    > >
    > >

    > From what I read
    > I believe you already have a grounding electrode for you home right? If
    > they carried a #14 or larger ground wire out to the dish and connected

    that
    > ground wire in your service I think you covered.
    >
    > An additional ground rod is a messy business.
    >
    >
    Kilowatt, Jan 8, 2004
    #3
  4. Kilowatt

    Louis Bybee Guest

    "Kilowatt" <> wrote in message
    news:Zy0Lb.9245$...
    > The satellite guys say that because they have connected their ground wire
    > into the AC disconnect that they are grounded according to NEC. I say

    they
    > have to drive a 8' ground rod and bond this to the service. I don't have

    a
    > code book and every article I have found is not really clear how this is
    > done.
    >
    > Anyone want to comment?
    >


    There isn't a lot of information given here, but I suspect the "satellite
    guys" may not be licensed or even qualified to be engaged in electrical
    work. At best I envision them having low voltage qualifications which isn't
    a bad thing, but it might be informative to ask what license they possess.

    It would be interesting to know if the disconnect they connected the ground
    wire to serves the dish, or how they terminated the ground wire its self.

    With the limited information supplied it's difficult to armchair the work of
    the dish installers, but I doubt a ground rod would be required for this
    installation. Installing a ground rod isn't a problem, and the addition to
    the grounding electrode system would be a good thing, just not necessarily
    required. If a ground rod is installed for the dish system it will need to
    be properly connected or bonded to the existing grounding electrode
    system/electrical system ground with a minimum #6 Cu conductor in an
    approved manner.

    If you call the electrical inspector having jurisdiction for your area they
    are usually very helpful, and willing to discuss situations such as this
    with you. You've cited NEC Article 820, but that is normally applied to CATV
    systems. I would expect that the inspector would look to article 810 if your
    installation is serving a single occupancy structure. If the work by the
    dish vendor isn't suitable the inspector would also be able to address that.
    It might be helpful to review article 810 before calling the inspector.

    If this dish is on the roof it is likely one of the higher metallic elements
    of the structure, and might present concern as a target for a lighting
    strike. You might consider having the installation evaluated by someone
    versed in electrical grounding/bonding, and lightning mitigation if your
    area has a history of electrical storm activity.

    Louis--
    *********************************************
    Remove the two fish in address to respond
    Louis Bybee, Jan 8, 2004
    #4
  5. Kilowatt

    deanmk Guest

    "Kilowatt" <> wrote in message
    news:eA1Lb.4778$...
    > Isn't the key connecting it to the service? They have an insulated 8
    > stranded draped over the side of the house swinging and then striped and
    > rapped around the lock hole in the AC disconnect.
    >
    > They should either drive a ground rod below the dish or run the conductor

    to
    > the service panel. Right?
    >
    >

    I'm confused, are they runnig 120V out to the dish or just the ground wire?.
    Is the discconect for the dish or just somthing convient. Is the dish
    metal.? Maybe this wire is a lighting ground (a different issue).
    deanmk, Jan 8, 2004
    #5
  6. Kilowatt

    Kilowatt Guest

    "Louis Bybee" <> wrote in message
    news:Td3Lb.83297$I07.415385@attbi_s53...
    > "Kilowatt" <> wrote in message
    > news:Zy0Lb.9245$...
    > > The satellite guys say that because they have connected their ground

    wire
    > > into the AC disconnect that they are grounded according to NEC. I say

    > they
    > > have to drive a 8' ground rod and bond this to the service. I don't

    have
    > a
    > > code book and every article I have found is not really clear how this is
    > > done.
    > >
    > > Anyone want to comment?
    > >

    >
    > There isn't a lot of information given here, but I suspect the "satellite
    > guys" may not be licensed or even qualified to be engaged in electrical
    > work. At best I envision them having low voltage qualifications which

    isn't
    > a bad thing, but it might be informative to ask what license they possess.
    >
    > It would be interesting to know if the disconnect they connected the

    ground
    > wire to serves the dish, or how they terminated the ground wire its self.
    >
    > With the limited information supplied it's difficult to armchair the work

    of
    > the dish installers, but I doubt a ground rod would be required for this
    > installation. Installing a ground rod isn't a problem, and the addition to
    > the grounding electrode system would be a good thing, just not necessarily
    > required. If a ground rod is installed for the dish system it will need to
    > be properly connected or bonded to the existing grounding electrode
    > system/electrical system ground with a minimum #6 Cu conductor in an
    > approved manner.
    >
    > If you call the electrical inspector having jurisdiction for your area

    they
    > are usually very helpful, and willing to discuss situations such as this
    > with you. You've cited NEC Article 820, but that is normally applied to

    CATV
    > systems. I would expect that the inspector would look to article 810 if

    your
    > installation is serving a single occupancy structure. If the work by the
    > dish vendor isn't suitable the inspector would also be able to address

    that.
    > It might be helpful to review article 810 before calling the inspector.
    >
    > If this dish is on the roof it is likely one of the higher metallic

    elements
    > of the structure, and might present concern as a target for a lighting
    > strike. You might consider having the installation evaluated by someone
    > versed in electrical grounding/bonding, and lightning mitigation if your
    > area has a history of electrical storm activity.
    >
    > Louis--
    > *********************************************
    > Remove the two fish in address to respond
    >
    >

    What should the installer do to ground the dish properly? My sister had 2
    tvs struck by lightning before she found out her dish was not grounded (at
    all) properly. She said they came out and drove a ground rod at the dish
    and bonded it there. No connection was made to the house. She hasn't been
    hit again but the ground rod at the dish is ok?
    Kilowatt, Jan 8, 2004
    #6
  7. Kilowatt

    Kilowatt Guest

    "Gerald Newton" <> wrote in message
    news:1073529941.459164@prawn...
    >
    > "Kilowatt" <> wrote in message
    > news:Zy0Lb.9245$...
    > > The satellite guys say that because they have connected their ground

    wire
    > > into the AC disconnect that they are grounded according to NEC. I say

    > they
    > > have to drive a 8' ground rod and bond this to the service. I don't

    have
    > a
    > > code book and every article I have found is not really clear how this is
    > > done.
    > >
    > > Anyone want to comment?
    > >
    > >
    > > --
    > > Put "private" in the subject line.
    > >

    > 820.40 Cable Grounding.
    > Where required by 820.33, the shield of the coaxial cable shall be

    grounded
    > as specified in 820.40(A) through (D).
    > (A) Grounding Conductor.
    > (1) Insulation. The grounding conductor shall be insulated and shall be
    > listed as suitable for the purpose.
    > (2) Material. The grounding conductor shall be copper or other
    > corrosion-resistant conductive material, stranded or solid.
    > (3) Size. The grounding conductor shall not be smaller than 14 AWG. It

    shall
    > have a current-carrying capacity approximately equal to that of the outer
    > conductor of the coaxial cable. The grounding conductor shall not be
    > required to exceed 6 AWG.
    > (4) Length. The grounding conductor shall be as short as practicable. In
    > one- and two-family dwellings, the grounding conductor shall be as short

    as
    > practicable, not to exceed 6.0 m (20 ft) in length.
    > Exception: In one- and two-family dwellings where it is not practicable

    to
    > achieve an overall maximum grounding conductor length of 6.0 m (20 ft), a
    > separate ground as specified in 250.52(A)(5), (6), or (7) shall be used,

    the
    > grounding conductor shall be grounded to the separate ground in accordance
    > with 250.70, and the separate ground bonded to the power grounding

    electrode
    > system in accordance with 820.40(D).
    > (5) Run in Straight Line. The grounding conductor shall be run to the
    > grounding electrode in as straight a line as practicable.
    > (6) Physical Protection. Where subject to physical damage, the grounding
    > conductor shall be adequately protected. Where the grounding conductor is
    > run in a metal raceway, both ends of the raceway shall be bonded to the
    > grounding conductor or the same terminal or electrode to which the

    grounding
    > conductor is connected.
    > (B) Electrode. The grounding conductor shall be connected in accordance

    with
    > 820.40(B)(1) and (B)(2).
    > (1) In Buildings or Structures with Grounding Means. To the nearest
    > accessible location on the following:
    > (1) The building or structure grounding electrode system as covered in
    > 250.50;
    > (2) The grounded interior metal water piping system, within 1.52 m (5 ft)
    > from its point of entrance to the building, as covered in 250.52;
    > (3) The power service accessible means external to enclosures as covered

    in
    > 250.94;
    > (4) The metallic power service raceway;
    > (5) The service equipment enclosure;
    > (6) The grounding electrode conductor or the grounding electrode conductor
    > metal enclosure; or
    > (7) The grounding conductor or the grounding electrode of a building or
    > structure disconnecting means that is grounded to an electrode as covered

    in
    > 250.32.
    > (2) In Buildings or Structures Without Grounding Means. If the building or
    > structure served has no grounding means, as described in 820.40(B)(1):
    > (1) To any one of the individual electrodes described in 250.52(A)(1),

    (2),
    > (3), (4); or,
    > (2) If the building or structure served has no grounding means, as

    described
    > in 820.40(B)(1) or (B)(2)(1), to an effectively grounded metal structure

    or
    > to any one of the individual electrodes described in 250.52(A)(5), (6),

    and
    > (7).
    > (C) Electrode Connection. Connections to grounding electrodes shall comply
    > with 250.70.
    > (D) Bonding of Electrodes. A bonding jumper not smaller than 6 AWG copper

    or
    > equivalent shall be connected between the antenna systems grounding
    > electrode and the power grounding electrode system at the building or
    > structure served where separate electrodes are used.
    > Exception: At mobile homes as covered in 820.42.
    > FPN No. 1: See 250.60 for use of air terminals (lightning rods).
    > FPN No. 2: Bonding together of all separate electrodes limits potential
    > differences between them and between their associated wiring systems.
    >
    >

    Ok. I saw all that but I am still unsure what the guy should do to attach
    the dish ground to my house.

    Does this mean that he should run a wire through the attic and open my
    service panel and attach there?
    Can he go in the basement and bond to any water pipe?
    Is the connection he made to my AC disconnect considered connected to be
    grounded?

    I really don't want lightning to fry my TV.
    Kilowatt, Jan 8, 2004
    #7
  8. Kilowatt

    Kilowatt Guest

    "deanmk" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    >
    > "Kilowatt" <> wrote in message
    > news:eA1Lb.4778$...
    > > Isn't the key connecting it to the service? They have an insulated 8
    > > stranded draped over the side of the house swinging and then striped and
    > > rapped around the lock hole in the AC disconnect.
    > >
    > > They should either drive a ground rod below the dish or run the

    conductor
    > to
    > > the service panel. Right?
    > >
    > >

    > I'm confused, are they runnig 120V out to the dish or just the ground

    wire?.
    > Is the discconect for the dish or just somthing convient. Is the dish
    > metal.? Maybe this wire is a lighting ground (a different issue).
    >
    >

    The AC is just something convent for a ground, I guess.
    They told me that the 3 prong plug is what they are using for the ground.
    I told them that because my sister lost 2 tvs to lightning that the 3 prong
    plug won't fly.
    I really don't know what they should but I know that the 3 prong plug didn't
    protect my sister's tv.
    Kilowatt, Jan 8, 2004
    #8
  9. Kilowatt

    Louis Bybee Guest

    "Kilowatt" <> wrote in message
    news:824Lb.10320$...
    >
    > "Louis Bybee" <> wrote in message
    > news:Td3Lb.83297$I07.415385@attbi_s53...
    > > "Kilowatt" <> wrote in message
    > > news:Zy0Lb.9245$...
    > > > The satellite guys say that because they have connected their ground

    > wire
    > > > into the AC disconnect that they are grounded according to NEC. I say

    > > they
    > > > have to drive a 8' ground rod and bond this to the service. I don't

    > have
    > > a
    > > > code book and every article I have found is not really clear how this

    is
    > > > done.
    > > >
    > > > Anyone want to comment?
    > > >

    > >
    > > There isn't a lot of information given here, but I suspect the

    "satellite
    > > guys" may not be licensed or even qualified to be engaged in electrical
    > > work. At best I envision them having low voltage qualifications which

    > isn't
    > > a bad thing, but it might be informative to ask what license they

    possess.
    > >
    > > It would be interesting to know if the disconnect they connected the

    > ground
    > > wire to serves the dish, or how they terminated the ground wire its

    self.
    > >
    > > With the limited information supplied it's difficult to armchair the

    work
    > of
    > > the dish installers, but I doubt a ground rod would be required for this
    > > installation. Installing a ground rod isn't a problem, and the addition

    to
    > > the grounding electrode system would be a good thing, just not

    necessarily
    > > required. If a ground rod is installed for the dish system it will need

    to
    > > be properly connected or bonded to the existing grounding electrode
    > > system/electrical system ground with a minimum #6 Cu conductor in an
    > > approved manner.
    > >
    > > If you call the electrical inspector having jurisdiction for your area

    > they
    > > are usually very helpful, and willing to discuss situations such as this
    > > with you. You've cited NEC Article 820, but that is normally applied to

    > CATV
    > > systems. I would expect that the inspector would look to article 810 if

    > your
    > > installation is serving a single occupancy structure. If the work by the
    > > dish vendor isn't suitable the inspector would also be able to address

    > that.
    > > It might be helpful to review article 810 before calling the inspector.
    > >
    > > If this dish is on the roof it is likely one of the higher metallic

    > elements
    > > of the structure, and might present concern as a target for a lighting
    > > strike. You might consider having the installation evaluated by someone
    > > versed in electrical grounding/bonding, and lightning mitigation if your
    > > area has a history of electrical storm activity.
    > >
    > > Louis--
    > > *********************************************
    > > Remove the two fish in address to respond
    > >
    > >

    > What should the installer do to ground the dish properly? My sister had 2
    > tvs struck by lightning before she found out her dish was not grounded (at
    > all) properly. She said they came out and drove a ground rod at the dish
    > and bonded it there. No connection was made to the house. She hasn't

    been
    > hit again but the ground rod at the dish is ok?
    >



    As I indicated in my previous post, I doubt that the dish installers have
    the expertise to address the grounding/bonding as evidenced by the manner of
    their work so far.

    If I were in your shoes I would do the following (as I suggested earlier) in
    the following order:

    1) Read article 810 of the NEC, and then call your local electrical
    inspector asking for an evaluation of the work so far.

    2) Contact an electrician, or other qualified electrical professional to
    advise/correctly complete the installation.

    3) Although the NEC allows the Grounding Wire to be run inside/outside the
    structure, I would run it, and the Bonding of Electrode where required, from
    the dish outside the structure as straight as possible directly to the
    ground. From there direct buried to the service location. It isn't necessary
    to enter the service equipment to make the connection, but is one of the
    permissible methods. If present I would connect to the Grounding Electrode
    Conductor outside the building with an exothermic, or other approved method.
    You could drive a ground rod and bond it as well, but I believe the direct
    buried conductor would be far more effective than a driven ground rod.
    Running the grounding/bonding conductor inside the home before connecting to
    the electrical system grounding grid is asking for trouble in an area where
    lightning activity is likely.

    Louis
    Louis Bybee, Jan 8, 2004
    #9
    1. Advertising

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

It takes just 2 minutes to sign up (and it's free!). Just click the sign up button to choose a username and then you can ask your own questions on the forum.
Similar Threads
  1. Chris
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    395
    Chaos Master
    Jan 5, 2004
  2. Jeff Wisnia

    AT&T Merlin 820 Console - "Memory Loss"

    Jeff Wisnia, Oct 21, 2005, in forum: Electronic Equipment
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    373
    Robert Baer
    Oct 22, 2005
  3. Ray di Tutto

    No plate dip on Kenwood TS 820

    Ray di Tutto, Jan 30, 2004, in forum: Electronic Repair
    Replies:
    2
    Views:
    740
    Stephen Weidner
    Jan 30, 2004
  4. Replies:
    10
    Views:
    363
  5. champion

    Hoover 820 Automatic

    champion, May 30, 2005, in forum: Electronic Repair
    Replies:
    1
    Views:
    568
    bigtom
    Jun 1, 2005
Loading...

Share This Page