led dimmer circuit

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by davesuejon@yahoo.co.uk, Jun 4, 2006.

  1. Guest

    i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?
     
    , Jun 4, 2006
    #1
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  2. Nico Coesel Guest

    "" <> wrote:

    >i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    >brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    >camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    >gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    >in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    >but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    >small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?


    The LED brightness depends on the current. It is easy to make a
    voltage to current converter with an opamp:

    http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/7.html/conversion

    Substitute Rload by the LED.

    --
    Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
    Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl
     
    Nico Coesel, Jun 4, 2006
    #2
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  3. mc Guest

    >>i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    >>brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    >>camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    >>gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    >>in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    >>but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    >>small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?

    >
    > The LED brightness depends on the current. It is easy to make a
    > voltage to current converter with an opamp:
    >
    > http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/7.html/conversion


    But there should also be no problem using resistors. What resistances are
    you using (fixed and variable) and is the variable one linear-taper or
    audio-taper?
     
    mc, Jun 4, 2006
    #3
  4. Don Bowey Guest

    On 6/4/06 6:41 AM, in article 1cCgg.4187$,
    "mc" <> wrote:

    >>> i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    >>> brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    >>> camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    >>> gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    >>> in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    >>> but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    >>> small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?

    >>
    >> The LED brightness depends on the current. It is easy to make a
    >> voltage to current converter with an opamp:
    >>
    >> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/7.html/conversion

    >
    > But there should also be no problem using resistors. What resistances are
    > you using (fixed and variable) and is the variable one linear-taper or
    > audio-taper?
    >
    >


    Resistors won't do the job. Post this on the basics board, or better yet,
    google for led dimmer. You need a circuit that varies the length of time
    the LED is fully powered, reducing it gradually to zero.

    This has been answered a jillion.5 times.
     
    Don Bowey, Jun 4, 2006
    #4
  5. Fred Bloggs Guest


    > i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    > brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    > camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    > gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    > in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    > but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    > small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?
    >


    This will convert the variable resistor into a linear control over full
    off to on range, start out with 100 ohm pot fully CCW for LED off:
    View in a fixed-width font such as Courier.
     
    Fred Bloggs, Jun 4, 2006
    #5
  6. John Fields Guest

    On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 07:53:06 -0700, Don Bowey <>
    wrote:

    >On 6/4/06 6:41 AM, in article 1cCgg.4187$,
    >"mc" <> wrote:
    >
    >>>> i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    >>>> brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    >>>> camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    >>>> gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    >>>> in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    >>>> but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    >>>> small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?
    >>>
    >>> The LED brightness depends on the current. It is easy to make a
    >>> voltage to current converter with an opamp:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/7.html/conversion

    >>
    >> But there should also be no problem using resistors. What resistances are
    >> you using (fixed and variable) and is the variable one linear-taper or
    >> audio-taper?
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Resistors won't do the job.


    ---
    Sure they will: (View in Courier)


    +V
    |
    [POT]<--[R]--[LED>]--+
    | |
    GND GND



    --
    John Fields
    Professional Circuit Designer
     
    John Fields, Jun 4, 2006
    #6
  7. Pooh Bear Guest

    John Fields wrote:

    > On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 07:53:06 -0700, Don Bowey <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >On 6/4/06 6:41 AM, in article 1cCgg.4187$,
    > >"mc" <> wrote:
    > >
    > >>>> i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    > >>>> brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    > >>>> camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    > >>>> gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    > >>>> in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    > >>>> but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    > >>>> small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?
    > >>>
    > >>> The LED brightness depends on the current. It is easy to make a
    > >>> voltage to current converter with an opamp:
    > >>>
    > >>> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/7.html/conversion
    > >>
    > >> But there should also be no problem using resistors. What resistances are
    > >> you using (fixed and variable) and is the variable one linear-taper or
    > >> audio-taper?
    > >>
    > >>

    > >
    > >Resistors won't do the job.

    >
    > ---
    > Sure they will: (View in Courier)
    >
    > +V
    > |
    > [POT]<--[R]--[LED>]--+
    > | |
    > GND GND


    That's shockingly inefficient. you might at least have used a transistor.

    Graham
     
    Pooh Bear, Jun 4, 2006
    #7
  8. Fred Bloggs Guest

    wrote:
    > i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    > brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    > camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    > gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    > in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    > but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    > small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?
    >


    This one might be a little easier, less battery drain and more readily
    available parts- use any small signal transistors- the variable resistor
    is totally linearized:
    View in a fixed-width font such as Courier.
     
    Fred Bloggs, Jun 4, 2006
    #8
  9. Don Bowey Guest

    On 6/4/06 9:33 AM, in article ,
    "John Fields" <> wrote:

    > On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 07:53:06 -0700, Don Bowey <>
    > wrote:
    >
    >> On 6/4/06 6:41 AM, in article 1cCgg.4187$,
    >> "mc" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>>> i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    >>>>> brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    >>>>> camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    >>>>> gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    >>>>> in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    >>>>> but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    >>>>> small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?
    >>>>
    >>>> The LED brightness depends on the current. It is easy to make a
    >>>> voltage to current converter with an opamp:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/7.html/conversion
    >>>
    >>> But there should also be no problem using resistors. What resistances are
    >>> you using (fixed and variable) and is the variable one linear-taper or
    >>> audio-taper?
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >> Resistors won't do the job.

    >
    > ---
    > Sure they will: (View in Courier)
    >
    >
    > +V
    > |
    > [POT]<--[R]--[LED>]--+
    > | |
    > GND GND
    >
    >


    Well, sure if you don't care that it doesn't work well.

    You are becoming a regular troll.
     
    Don Bowey, Jun 4, 2006
    #9
  10. James Waldby Guest

    Pooh Bear wrote:
    > John Fields wrote:
    > > ... Don Bowey ... wrote:
    > > > ..."mc" ... wrote:

    [>>>>>OP "davesuejon" wrote]
    > > >>>> i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    > > >>>> brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    > > >>>> camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    > > >>>> gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    > > >>>> in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree

    ....
    > > >Resistors won't do the job.


    > > Sure they will: (View in Courier)


    > > +V
    > > |
    > > [POT]<--[R]--[LED>]--+
    > > | |
    > > GND GND

    >
    > That's shockingly inefficient. you might at least have used a transistor.


    Here's a "more-efficient" approach, in that all of the current
    used (except a few hundred uA) goes through the LED:

    .. VR
    .. +-------I O-----------+
    .. | A |
    .. | | R1
    .. | | |
    .. | | +--+----+
    .. Bat | | | |
    .. | | | D |
    .. | +---->R2 | |
    .. | | | |
    .. | +--+ Led
    .. | R3 |
    .. | | |
    .. +---------------+-------+

    VR is a 3-terminal regulator, like LM317, although I used
    a LX8383, having a bunch on hand. I used: R1 = 11 ohms,
    R2 = 5K pot, R3 = 1K, D = a diode.

    -jiw
     
    James Waldby, Jun 4, 2006
    #10
  11. John Fields Guest

    On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 17:59:58 +0100, Pooh Bear
    <> wrote:

    >
    >
    >John Fields wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 07:53:06 -0700, Don Bowey <>
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >> >On 6/4/06 6:41 AM, in article 1cCgg.4187$,
    >> >"mc" <> wrote:
    >> >
    >> >>>> i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    >> >>>> brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    >> >>>> camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    >> >>>> gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    >> >>>> in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    >> >>>> but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    >> >>>> small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?
    >> >>>
    >> >>> The LED brightness depends on the current. It is easy to make a
    >> >>> voltage to current converter with an opamp:
    >> >>>
    >> >>> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/7.html/conversion
    >> >>
    >> >> But there should also be no problem using resistors. What resistances are
    >> >> you using (fixed and variable) and is the variable one linear-taper or
    >> >> audio-taper?
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >
    >> >Resistors won't do the job.

    >>
    >> ---
    >> Sure they will: (View in Courier)
    >>
    >> +V
    >> |
    >> [POT]<--[R]--[LED>]--+
    >> | |
    >> GND GND

    >
    >That's shockingly inefficient. you might at least have used a transistor.


    ---
    The OP asked for simple, not for efficient. :)


    --
    John Fields
    Professional Circuit Designer
     
    John Fields, Jun 4, 2006
    #11
  12. Nico Coesel Guest

    Don Bowey <> wrote:

    >On 6/4/06 6:41 AM, in article 1cCgg.4187$,
    >"mc" <> wrote:
    >
    >>>> i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    >>>> brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    >>>> camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    >>>> gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    >>>> in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    >>>> but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    >>>> small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?
    >>>
    >>> The LED brightness depends on the current. It is easy to make a
    >>> voltage to current converter with an opamp:
    >>>
    >>> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/7.html/conversion

    >>
    >> But there should also be no problem using resistors. What resistances are
    >> you using (fixed and variable) and is the variable one linear-taper or
    >> audio-taper?

    >
    >Resistors won't do the job. Post this on the basics board, or better yet,
    >google for led dimmer. You need a circuit that varies the length of time
    >the LED is fully powered, reducing it gradually to zero.


    PWM may cause interference when using a digital camera.

    --
    Reply to nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
    Bedrijven en winkels vindt U op www.adresboekje.nl
     
    Nico Coesel, Jun 4, 2006
    #12
  13. Fred Bloggs Guest

    James Waldby wrote:
    > Pooh Bear wrote:
    >
    >>John Fields wrote:
    >>
    >>>... Don Bowey ... wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>..."mc" ... wrote:
    >>>

    > [>>>>>OP "davesuejon" wrote]
    >
    >>>>>>>i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    >>>>>>>brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    >>>>>>>camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    >>>>>>>gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    >>>>>>>in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    >>>>>>

    > ...
    >
    >>>>Resistors won't do the job.
    >>>

    >
    >>>Sure they will: (View in Courier)

    >>

    >
    >>> +V
    >>> |
    >>> [POT]<--[R]--[LED>]--+
    >>> | |
    >>> GND GND

    >>
    >>That's shockingly inefficient. you might at least have used a transistor.

    >
    >
    > Here's a "more-efficient" approach, in that all of the current
    > used (except a few hundred uA) goes through the LED:
    >
    > . VR
    > . +-------I O-----------+
    > . | A |
    > . | | R1
    > . | | |
    > . | | +--+----+
    > . Bat | | | |
    > . | | | D |
    > . | +---->R2 | |
    > . | | | |
    > . | +--+ Led
    > . | R3 |
    > . | | |
    > . +---------------+-------+
    >
    > VR is a 3-terminal regulator, like LM317, although I used
    > a LX8383, having a bunch on hand. I used: R1 = 11 ohms,
    > R2 = 5K pot, R3 = 1K, D = a diode.
    >
    > -jiw


    How do you figure that? If the LED goes to 3.3V, you end up with
    3.3-0.7=2.3V across R3 for 2.3mA. And you need to make R1 more like 39
    ohms, since the LEDs do not like continuous operation at more than 30mA.
    Then because 'D' has an orientation, you might show it.
     
    Fred Bloggs, Jun 4, 2006
    #13
  14. Fred Bloggs Guest


    > If the LED goes to 3.3V, you end up with
    > 3.3-0.7=2.3V across R3 for 2.3mA.


    yeah-right...
     
    Fred Bloggs, Jun 4, 2006
    #14
  15. James Waldby Guest

    James Waldby wrote:
    > Pooh Bear wrote:
    > > John Fields wrote:
    > > > ... Don Bowey ... wrote:
    > > > > ..."mc" ... wrote:

    > [>>>>>OP "davesuejon" wrote]
    > > > >>>> i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    > > > >>>> brightness white led for installation inside a bird box

    [...]> > > >>>> i have tried a resistor
    > > > >>>> in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree

    > ...
    > > > >Resistors won't do the job.

    >
    > > > Sure they will: (View in Courier)

    >
    > > > +V
    > > > |
    > > > [POT]<--[R]--[LED>]--+
    > > > | |
    > > > GND GND

    > >
    > > That's shockingly inefficient. you might at least have used a transistor.

    >
    > Here's a "more-efficient" approach, in that all of the current
    > used (except a few hundred uA) goes through the LED:

    ....
    > VR is a 3-terminal regulator, like LM317, although I used
    > a LX8383, having a bunch on hand. I used: R1 = 11 ohms,
    > R2 = 5K pot, R3 = 1K, D = a diode.


    I forgot to show input and output capacitors for the VR -
    .. VR
    .. +---+---I O-----------+---+
    .. | | A | |
    .. | | | R1 |
    .. | | | | |
    .. | | | +--+-D1-+ |
    .. Bat | | | | | |
    .. | | | | D2 | |
    .. | | +---->R2 | | |
    .. | | | | Led |
    .. | | +--+ | |
    .. | C1 R3 | C2
    .. | | | | |
    .. +---+-----------+-------+---+

    Also, the circuit I posted before showed D2 but not D1; the
    circuit I tested included D1. D1+D2 = 1 dual-diode MMBD7000.
    D1 can be left out if R1 is made slightly larger.
    -jiw
     
    James Waldby, Jun 4, 2006
    #15
  16. John Fields Guest

    On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 11:02:54 -0700, Don Bowey <>
    wrote:

    >On 6/4/06 9:33 AM, in article ,
    >"John Fields" <> wrote:
    >
    >> On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 07:53:06 -0700, Don Bowey <>
    >> wrote:
    >>> Resistors won't do the job.

    >>
    >> ---
    >> Sure they will: (View in Courier)
    >>
    >>
    >> +V
    >> |
    >> [POT]<--[R]--[LED>]--+
    >> | |
    >> GND GND
    >>
    >>

    >
    >Well, sure if you don't care that it doesn't work well.


    ---
    What do you mean? 0 mA into the LED at the bottom of the pot, 20mA
    at the top, and something between that as the pot gets rotated.
    Maybe not all that efficient, but who cares? The OP wants something
    simple, and it's just 3 parts.
    ---

    >You are becoming a regular troll.


    ---
    You and frog seem to think so. ;)


    --
    John Fields
    Professional Circuit Designer
     
    John Fields, Jun 4, 2006
    #16
  17. James Waldby Guest

    Fred Bloggs wrote:
    > James Waldby wrote:
    > > Here's a "more-efficient" approach, in that all of the current
    > > used (except a few hundred uA) goes through the LED:

    [see revision below]
    > > VR is a 3-terminal regulator, like LM317, although I used
    > > a LX8383, having a bunch on hand. I used: R1 = 11 ohms,
    > > R2 = 5K pot, R3 = 1K, D = a diode.
    > >
    > > -jiw

    >
    > How do you figure that? If the LED goes to 3.3V, you end up with
    > 3.3-0.7=2.3V across R3 for 2.3mA. And you need to make R1 more like 39
    > ohms, since the LEDs do not like continuous operation at more than 30mA.
    > Then because 'D' has an orientation, you might show it.


    I think you're right, the loss would be a couple of mA rather than
    a few hundred uA. The 100 uA I was thinking of (by mistake) was the
    current in the Adjust pin of the VR.

    The circuit I built is shown more accurately in a post I made about
    the same time you were posting your comment, and still more accurately
    below. (My other post showed D1 and D2 but not D3, which was included
    to isolate multiple LED's)
    .. VR
    .. +---+---I O-----------+---+
    .. | | A | |
    .. | | | R1 |
    .. | | | | |
    .. +| | | +--+-D1-+ |
    .. Bat | | | | | |
    .. -| | | | D2 | |
    .. | | +---->R2 | | | D1: |<
    .. | | | | LED |
    .. | | +--+ | | D2, D3: v
    .. | C1 R3 | C2 -
    .. | | D3 | |
    .. +---+-----------+-------+---+
    Here, the drop across D1-D3 is about 2V, so there would be
    1.3V across R3 (for a 3.3V LED), hence 1.3mA for R3=1K.
    To cut down that loss without D3 in the circuit, increase R3
    a bunch.

    You suggested 39 ohms for R1, vs the 11 ohms I used. With
    R2 slid to the D1 end, and 1.25 V at the A pin, and .65V
    across D1, there's .4 V on R1, or 36mA through it, so about
    34mA through the LED, a bit high. 15 ohms would limit LED
    current to 25mA; 39 ohms limits to 8mA. So 11 is too low
    and 39 too high, for the circuit above. With D1 not in there,
    your 39 limits LED current to about 30mA, so is good for the
    earlier circuit.

    Using D1 removes about .65V overhead from the LED current path,
    allowing the circuit to work on that much less battery voltage.
    -jiw
     
    James Waldby, Jun 4, 2006
    #17
  18. Pooh Bear wrote:
    >
    > John Fields wrote:
    >
    > > On Sun, 04 Jun 2006 07:53:06 -0700, Don Bowey <>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >Resistors won't do the job.

    > >
    > > ---
    > > Sure they will: (View in Courier)
    > >
    > > +V
    > > |
    > > [POT]<--[R]--[LED>]--+
    > > | |
    > > GND GND

    >
    > That's shockingly inefficient. you might at least have used a transistor.
    >
    > Graham



    Because transistors only light up ONCE? ;-)


    --
    Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
    prove it.
    Member of DAV #85.

    Michael A. Terrell
    Central Florida
     
    Michael A. Terrell, Jun 4, 2006
    #18
  19. Don Bowey Guest

    On 6/4/06 11:22 AM, in article , "Nico
    Coesel" <> wrote:

    > Don Bowey <> wrote:
    >
    >> On 6/4/06 6:41 AM, in article 1cCgg.4187$,
    >> "mc" <> wrote:
    >>
    >>>>> i would like a simple circuit that could be used to dim a high
    >>>>> brightness white led for installation inside a bird box for a colour
    >>>>> camera. i don't want to scare the birds by a simple on / off . A
    >>>>> gradule increase in brightness would be good. i have tried a resistor
    >>>>> in series followed by another variable resistor which works to a degree
    >>>>> but there comes a point when the brightness suddenly increases with a
    >>>>> small turn of the pot. could anyone post a simple cicuit please ?
    >>>>
    >>>> The LED brightness depends on the current. It is easy to make a
    >>>> voltage to current converter with an opamp:
    >>>>
    >>>> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/7.html/conversion
    >>>
    >>> But there should also be no problem using resistors. What resistances are
    >>> you using (fixed and variable) and is the variable one linear-taper or
    >>> audio-taper?

    >>
    >> Resistors won't do the job. Post this on the basics board, or better yet,
    >> google for led dimmer. You need a circuit that varies the length of time
    >> the LED is fully powered, reducing it gradually to zero.

    >
    > PWM may cause interference when using a digital camera.


    BFD. Lightning might be attracted to it too.

    Take your comment to the basics board.
     
    Don Bowey, Jun 5, 2006
    #19
  20. mc Guest

    >>>>> The LED brightness depends on the current. It is easy to make a
    >>>>> voltage to current converter with an opamp:
    >>>>>
    >>>>> http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_8/7.html/conversion
    >>>>
    >>>> But there should also be no problem using resistors. What resistances
    >>>> are
    >>>> you using (fixed and variable) and is the variable one linear-taper or
    >>>> audio-taper?
    >>>
    >>> Resistors won't do the job. Post this on the basics board, or better
    >>> yet,
    >>> google for led dimmer. You need a circuit that varies the length of
    >>> time
    >>> the LED is fully powered, reducing it gradually to zero.


    Will someone explain *why* resistors "won't do the job"?

    This is not a basic question. I am not the original poster. I understand
    about PWM and its advantages (saving power). But if an op-amp adjustable
    current source (which is not PWM) will do the job, surely so will a humble
    rheostat.

    Is there something strange about the current-vs-brightness relation of these
    LEDs?
     
    mc, Jun 5, 2006
    #20
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