Jansen electrostatic tweeter questions

Discussion in 'Electronic Repair' started by none, Apr 15, 2005.

  1. none

    none Guest

    I've got an old pair of Jansen speakers with the electrostatic
    tweeters. They're four array radiator types.( four inch square or so
    with four to a box.)
    I'm thinking about putting them in another speaker box project I'm
    working on and could use some advice from any who've had any
    experience with these type of tweeters.
    One of the individual radiators is badly damaged and I was thinking of
    paring them down from four to just three as it might be impossible to
    get replacement parts for anything this old. This shouldn't be a
    problem should it?
    Also they've got a heavy buildup of grime on them from extended
    storage. What's the best way to clean them off? (I was thinking a bit
    of simple green followed by rinsing with water, then blowing off with
    compressed air. Or would it be safe to use a contact cleaner?
    Thanks in advance for any info regarding these units.
     
    none, Apr 15, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:20:09 -0600, "Stephen Sank" <>
    wrote:

    >If you spelled "Jantzen" correctly, you might have good luck finding rebuilding info on the
    >web.


    If you spelled "Janszen" correctly, you might actually have helped
    him. ;-)

    Kal
     
    Kalman Rubinson, Apr 16, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. none

    Stephen Sank Guest

    If you spelled "Jantzen" correctly, you might have good luck finding rebuilding info on the
    web.

    --
    Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
    Talking Dog Transducer Company
    http://stephensank.com
    5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
    Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
    505-332-0336
    Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
    Payments preferred through Paypal.com
    "none" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > I've got an old pair of Jansen speakers with the electrostatic
    > tweeters. They're four array radiator types.( four inch square or so
    > with four to a box.)
    > I'm thinking about putting them in another speaker box project I'm
    > working on and could use some advice from any who've had any
    > experience with these type of tweeters.
    > One of the individual radiators is badly damaged and I was thinking of
    > paring them down from four to just three as it might be impossible to
    > get replacement parts for anything this old. This shouldn't be a
    > problem should it?
    > Also they've got a heavy buildup of grime on them from extended
    > storage. What's the best way to clean them off? (I was thinking a bit
    > of simple green followed by rinsing with water, then blowing off with
    > compressed air. Or would it be safe to use a contact cleaner?
    > Thanks in advance for any info regarding these units.
     
    Stephen Sank, Apr 16, 2005
    #3
  4. none

    Stephen Sank Guest

    Are you sure about that, Kal? When I corresponded with Frank Dennesen some years ago, he did
    not correct my speeling it "Jantzen", and he certainly should have known the right spelling.

    --
    Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
    Talking Dog Transducer Company
    http://stephensank.com
    5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
    Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
    505-332-0336
    Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
    Payments preferred through Paypal.com
    "Kalman Rubinson" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:20:09 -0600, "Stephen Sank" <>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >If you spelled "Jantzen" correctly, you might have good luck finding rebuilding info on the
    > >web.

    >
    > If you spelled "Janszen" correctly, you might actually have helped
    > him. ;-)
    >
    > Kal
    >
    >
     
    Stephen Sank, Apr 16, 2005
    #4
  5. I believe you are both correct, though Kal is referring to the correct
    company in this instance. I recall seeing components manufactured by
    Jantzen and that there used to be a manufacture of finished speakers named
    Janszen. IIRC, the latter was the product using and electrostatic tweeter.
    The name Art Janszen comes to mind, and I believe was the designer of one of
    the first electrostatic tweeters in the 1950s?. Old stuff...I seem to
    recall some KLH speakers that used that tweeter and some affiliation with
    McIntosh.

    Leonard

    "Stephen Sank" <> wrote in message
    news:d3qa03$g71$...
    > Are you sure about that, Kal? When I corresponded with Frank Dennesen

    some years ago, he did
    > not correct my speeling it "Jantzen", and he certainly should have known

    the right spelling.
    >
    > --
    > Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
    > Talking Dog Transducer Company
    > http://stephensank.com
    > 5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
    > Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
    > 505-332-0336
    > Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
    > Payments preferred through Paypal.com
    > "Kalman Rubinson" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    > > On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:20:09 -0600, "Stephen Sank" <>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > > >If you spelled "Jantzen" correctly, you might have good luck finding

    rebuilding info on the
    > > >web.

    > >
    > > If you spelled "Janszen" correctly, you might actually have helped
    > > him. ;-)
    > >
    > > Kal
    > >
    > >

    >
    >
     
    Leonard Caillouet, Apr 16, 2005
    #5
  6. none

    NSM Guest

    "Leonard Caillouet" <> wrote in message
    news:pn68e.16031$B93.361@lakeread06...
    > I believe you are both correct, though Kal is referring to the correct
    > company in this instance. I recall seeing components manufactured by
    > Jantzen and that there used to be a manufacture of finished speakers named
    > Janszen. IIRC, the latter was the product using and electrostatic

    tweeter.
    > The name Art Janszen comes to mind, and I believe was the designer of one

    of
    > the first electrostatic tweeters in the 1950s?. Old stuff...I seem to
    > recall some KLH speakers that used that tweeter and some affiliation with
    > McIntosh.


    "1953 - Arthur Janszen was granted patent No. 2,631,196 on March 10, 1953,
    for an electrostatic high-frequency speaker"

    Jantzen makes women's swim suits.
    --
    N
     
    NSM, Apr 17, 2005
    #6
  7. "NSM" <> wrote in message
    news:GOB8e.55247$7Q4.50415@clgrps13...
    >
    > "Leonard Caillouet" <> wrote in message
    > news:pn68e.16031$B93.361@lakeread06...
    > > I believe you are both correct, though Kal is referring to the correct
    > > company in this instance. I recall seeing components manufactured by
    > > Jantzen and that there used to be a manufacture of finished speakers

    named
    > > Janszen. IIRC, the latter was the product using and electrostatic

    > tweeter.
    > > The name Art Janszen comes to mind, and I believe was the designer of

    one
    > of
    > > the first electrostatic tweeters in the 1950s?. Old stuff...I seem to
    > > recall some KLH speakers that used that tweeter and some affiliation

    with
    > > McIntosh.

    >
    > "1953 - Arthur Janszen was granted patent No. 2,631,196 on March 10, 1953,
    > for an electrostatic high-frequency speaker"
    >
    > Jantzen makes women's swim suits.


    There is also http://www.jantzen-audio.com/, which makes inductors for
    loudspeakers.

    Leonard
     
    Leonard Caillouet, Apr 18, 2005
    #7
  8. none

    none Guest

    On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 19:48:29 -0400, Kalman Rubinson <>
    wrote:

    >On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:20:09 -0600, "Stephen Sank" <>
    >wrote:
    >
    >>If you spelled "Jantzen" correctly, you might have good luck finding rebuilding info on the
    >>web.

    >
    >If you spelled "Janszen" correctly, you might actually have helped
    >him. ;-)
    >
    >Kal
    >

    Actually it's Janzen, NOT Jantzen.
    And yes I did misspell it. Irrelevant actually since I didn't do a web
    search. While Ive been out of the been out of the loop inregards to
    hifi hardware for some years I'd heard some years back that Janszen
    was out of the business.
    Even if they are still around I doubt they'd be able to help since
    these units have been collecting dust in the back of my warehouse for
    at least 15 years.
     
    none, Apr 19, 2005
    #8
  9. none

    none Guest

    On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:20:09 -0600, "Stephen Sank" <>
    wrote:

    >If you spelled "Jantzen" correctly, you might have good luck finding rebuilding info on the
    >web.

    It JANSZEN, not Jantzen. I could either post a scan of one of the
    tweeters or e-mail it to any non-believers.
    Says Janszen on them clear as day.
    Wasn't even aware there was any company by the name of Jantzen
    manufacturing hifi hardware.
    There WAS however a company named Janszen that made speakers and other
    hifi components during the 60's-70's right here in the US.(Much of it
    was even good quality.)
     
    none, Apr 19, 2005
    #9
  10. none

    none Guest

    On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 06:50:39 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <>
    wrote:

    >I believe you are both correct, though Kal is referring to the correct
    >company in this instance. I recall seeing components manufactured by
    >Jantzen and that there used to be a manufacture of finished speakers named
    >Janszen. IIRC, the latter was the product using and electrostatic tweeter.
    >The name Art Janszen comes to mind, and I believe was the designer of one of
    >the first electrostatic tweeters in the 1950s?. Old stuff...I seem to
    >recall some KLH speakers that used that tweeter and some affiliation with
    >McIntosh.
    >
    >Leonard
    >

    That you Leonard for the clarification. Yes I go back that far.
    And yes I seem to recall some of my early McIntosh boxes having
    electrostats in them.(Most likely they were Janszen's.)
    I've had and sold so much audio gear over the years(Once had a
    recording studio and was co-owners in a couple of hifi shops way back
    when.) that I have trouble keeping all the different hardware
    straight. Memory can start to slip after a certain age, especially if
    you've been out of the business as long as I have.

    Which is why I asked here. I have a large warehouse full of much of
    that vintage gear and now that I'm retired completely I've been
    dusting much of it off and playing around with it.
    I believe the units I'd asked about were from the late 70's or maybe
    early 80's, probably some of the last that Janzen made.(correct me if
    I'm wrong about them being out of business.)
    If I recall right the original customer brought them back after a week
    or so and traded up to something bigger. They had a scratch on the
    veneer, couldn't be sold as new, and got stuck in the back of the
    warehouse to collect dust for a couple of decades.
    I've long since tossed out all my service manuals for the old stuff,
    doubt I had anything for these tweeters anyhow.
    I do recall these speakers as having very crisp, transparent highs and
    thought it'd be nice to have them in a couple of monitors I'm
    building.
    Like I said one of the radiators was cracked and having forgotten just
    about all I'd learned about working with powered electrostats thought
    someone here might be able to give me some info on these.
    I was thinking to reduce the array from four in a square to three
    across.

    >"Stephen Sank" <> wrote in message
    >news:d3qa03$g71$...
    >> Are you sure about that, Kal? When I corresponded with Frank Dennesen

    >some years ago, he did
    >> not correct my speeling it "Jantzen", and he certainly should have known

    >the right spelling.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Stephen Sank, Owner & Ribbon Mic Restorer
    >> Talking Dog Transducer Company
    >> http://stephensank.com
    >> 5517 Carmelita Drive N.E.
    >> Albuquerque, New Mexico [87111]
    >> 505-332-0336
    >> Auth. Nakamichi & McIntosh servicer
    >> Payments preferred through Paypal.com
    >> "Kalman Rubinson" <> wrote in message
    >> news:...
    >> > On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 18:20:09 -0600, "Stephen Sank" <>
    >> > wrote:
    >> >
    >> > >If you spelled "Jantzen" correctly, you might have good luck finding

    >rebuilding info on the
    >> > >web.
    >> >
    >> > If you spelled "Janszen" correctly, you might actually have helped
    >> > him. ;-)
    >> >
    >> > Kal
    >> >
    >> >

    >>
    >>

    >
     
    none, Apr 19, 2005
    #10
  11. none

    none Guest

    On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 06:26:49 -0400, "Leonard Caillouet" <>
    wrote:

    >"NSM" <> wrote in message
    >news:GOB8e.55247$7Q4.50415@clgrps13...
    >>
    >> "Leonard Caillouet" <> wrote in message
    >> news:pn68e.16031$B93.361@lakeread06...
    >> > I believe you are both correct, though Kal is referring to the correct
    >> > company in this instance. I recall seeing components manufactured by
    >> > Jantzen and that there used to be a manufacture of finished speakers

    >named
    >> > Janszen. IIRC, the latter was the product using and electrostatic

    >> tweeter.
    >> > The name Art Janszen comes to mind, and I believe was the designer of

    >one
    >> of
    >> > the first electrostatic tweeters in the 1950s?. Old stuff...I seem to
    >> > recall some KLH speakers that used that tweeter and some affiliation

    >with
    >> > McIntosh.

    >>
    >> "1953 - Arthur Janszen was granted patent No. 2,631,196 on March 10, 1953,
    >> for an electrostatic high-frequency speaker"
    >>
    >> Jantzen makes women's swim suits.

    >
    >There is also http://www.jantzen-audio.com/, which makes inductors for
    >loudspeakers.
    >
    >Leonard
    >

    Can I take it then that none here know anything about the tweeters
    themselves or anything about eletrostatic tweeter design/theory?
     
    none, Apr 19, 2005
    #11
  12. none

    NSM Guest

    "none" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Can I take it then that none here know anything about the tweeters
    > themselves or anything about eletrostatic tweeter design/theory?


    No. I know far too much about it. No room for anything new it seems.
    --
    N
     
    NSM, Apr 23, 2005
    #12
  13. none

    NSM Guest

    "none" <> wrote in message
    news:...

    > Like I said one of the radiators was cracked and having forgotten just
    > about all I'd learned about working with powered electrostats thought
    > someone here might be able to give me some info on these.
    > I was thinking to reduce the array from four in a square to three
    > across.


    As a first approximation, you will lose 25% of max peak power out. How are
    they driven?
    --
    N
     
    NSM, Apr 23, 2005
    #13
  14. none

    none Guest

    On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:58:09 GMT, "NSM" <> wrote:

    >
    >"none" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >
    >> Like I said one of the radiators was cracked and having forgotten just
    >> about all I'd learned about working with powered electrostats thought
    >> someone here might be able to give me some info on these.
    >> I was thinking to reduce the array from four in a square to three
    >> across.

    >
    >As a first approximation, you will lose 25% of max peak power out. How are
    >they driven?


    You're correct, I'll lose output but if I've been informed correctly
    it'll also change the impedance values so I'd better stay with a quad
    setup and try to repair the cracked unit.

    The ESL's came out of a pair of Janszen speakers made in the mid or
    late 70's and have the internal Janszen power supplies.
    From conversations with other ESL diyers these were the the later 130
    models and had fairly good power supplies.
    I've got both the power supplies and the grids stripped out and in a
    box on a corner of my work bench.
    When I get more info and get the time I'll put the grids apart and
    clean them up, the power supplies are in mint condition as they didn't
    get more than 30 hours or so of play time until they were stored.
    I found a ESL forum on the net that will probably be a good source for
    parts and such.(I understand they now have better grades of diaphram
    materials available as well as better conductive coatings and
    laminating methods than just mylar and rubbing with carbon.)

    After looking at the grids a bit closer I believe I'll be able to get
    them apart with out to much difficulty and I'm sure that after having
    been stored for so many years it couldn't hurt to replace the mylar
    either.
     
    none, Apr 27, 2005
    #14
  15. none

    NSM Guest

    "none" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:58:09 GMT, "NSM" <> wrote:
    >
    > >
    > >"none" <> wrote in message
    > >news:...
    > >
    > >> Like I said one of the radiators was cracked and having forgotten just
    > >> about all I'd learned about working with powered electrostats thought
    > >> someone here might be able to give me some info on these.
    > >> I was thinking to reduce the array from four in a square to three
    > >> across.

    > >
    > >As a first approximation, you will lose 25% of max peak power out. How

    are
    > >they driven?

    >
    > You're correct, I'll lose output but if I've been informed correctly
    > it'll also change the impedance values so I'd better stay with a quad
    > setup and try to repair the cracked unit.


    IIRC these are very high impedance anyway so that shouldn't be a
    consideration. If you want to test, put an 8 ohm resistor in series and hook
    a scope across that - with a 2 channel use one across the tweeter and one
    across the resistor.

    > The ESL's came out of a pair of Janszen speakers made in the mid or
    > late 70's and have the internal Janszen power supplies.
    > From conversations with other ESL diyers these were the the later 130
    > models and had fairly good power supplies.
    > I've got both the power supplies and the grids stripped out and in a
    > box on a corner of my work bench.
    > When I get more info and get the time I'll put the grids apart and
    > clean them up, the power supplies are in mint condition as they didn't
    > get more than 30 hours or so of play time until they were stored.
    > I found a ESL forum on the net that will probably be a good source for
    > parts and such.(I understand they now have better grades of diaphram
    > materials available as well as better conductive coatings and
    > laminating methods than just mylar and rubbing with carbon.)
    >
    > After looking at the grids a bit closer I believe I'll be able to get
    > them apart with out to much difficulty and I'm sure that after having
    > been stored for so many years it couldn't hurt to replace the mylar
    > either.


    It's all down to the construction. ISTR seeing build your own articles very
    many years ago. I always lusted for the 'big' British electrostatics (Quad?)
    which were (almost) full range.
    --
    N
     
    NSM, Apr 28, 2005
    #15
  16. none

    none Guest

    On Thu, 28 Apr 2005 04:49:14 GMT, "NSM" <> wrote:

    >
    >"none" <> wrote in message
    >news:...
    >> On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:58:09 GMT, "NSM" <> wrote:
    >>
    >> >
    >> >"none" <> wrote in message
    >> >news:...
    >> >
    >> >> Like I said one of the radiators was cracked and having forgotten just
    >> >> about all I'd learned about working with powered electrostats thought
    >> >> someone here might be able to give me some info on these.
    >> >> I was thinking to reduce the array from four in a square to three
    >> >> across.
    >> >
    >> >As a first approximation, you will lose 25% of max peak power out. How

    >are
    >> >they driven?

    >>
    >> You're correct, I'll lose output but if I've been informed correctly
    >> it'll also change the impedance values so I'd better stay with a quad
    >> setup and try to repair the cracked unit.

    >
    >IIRC these are very high impedance anyway so that shouldn't be a
    >consideration. If you want to test, put an 8 ohm resistor in series and hook
    >a scope across that - with a 2 channel use one across the tweeter and one
    >across the resistor.
    >
    >> The ESL's came out of a pair of Janszen speakers made in the mid or
    >> late 70's and have the internal Janszen power supplies.
    >> From conversations with other ESL diyers these were the the later 130
    >> models and had fairly good power supplies.
    >> I've got both the power supplies and the grids stripped out and in a
    >> box on a corner of my work bench.
    >> When I get more info and get the time I'll put the grids apart and
    >> clean them up, the power supplies are in mint condition as they didn't
    >> get more than 30 hours or so of play time until they were stored.
    >> I found a ESL forum on the net that will probably be a good source for
    >> parts and such.(I understand they now have better grades of diaphram
    >> materials available as well as better conductive coatings and
    >> laminating methods than just mylar and rubbing with carbon.)
    >>
    >> After looking at the grids a bit closer I believe I'll be able to get
    >> them apart with out to much difficulty and I'm sure that after having
    >> been stored for so many years it couldn't hurt to replace the mylar
    >> either.

    >
    >It's all down to the construction. ISTR seeing build your own articles very
    >many years ago. I always lusted for the 'big' British electrostatics (Quad?)
    >which were (almost) full range.


    There's a diy forum for building ESL's from scratch and many on there
    build copies of the quads.
    Here's the url:

    http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=54


    http://www.sacdmods.com/ESL/index.htm

    http://www.sacdmods.com/ESL/web6.htm

    http://audiokarma.org/forums/archive/index.php/



    From what I've read it's not that difficult to build 'em and there are
    all sorts of new materials that offer improved performance over what
    was state of the art way back.

    I had a pair of Dalqhuist's in my shop back in the late 70's that were
    large electrostatic panels. Weren't all that efficient but they had
    amazing transparency and imaging and had some of the cleanest highs
    I've heard from a mass produced driver.(Sadly I could sell some of the
    finest hifi to be had but could seldom afford it for myself.)
    I'm mostly retired these days and would be building all sorts of nifty
    audio gear but for the fact that I have a wife.(She can't stand ANY
    sounds louder than that of a transistor radio.)
    Ironic considering that I still have much of my closing stock from my
    stereo shops still sitting in storage after all these years and am
    dying to dust much of it off and actually use it before I expire.
    ( Grounds for a divorce in the opinion of many.)

    If you've been bitten by the diy hifi bug I have other links to
    speaker building and other stereo sites if you're interested.
    I'll eventually get around to pulling those Janszen's apart and
    upgrading them if possible.
    If interested I'll let you know how it goes.
     
    none, Apr 29, 2005
    #16
  17. none

    NSM Guest

    NSM, Apr 29, 2005
    #17
    1. Advertising

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