design of a 120 degree phase shifter

Discussion in 'Electronic Design' started by rony, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. rony

    rony Guest

    can anyone tell me how to implement a 120degree phase shifter for
    using in a high power circuit and possibly a opamp model that can be
    used for the same pls also let me know anyalternate methhods for
    implementing the same with some other components instead of op amps
    rony, Oct 10, 2007
    #1
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  2. rony

    D from BC Guest

    On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 23:12:12 -0700, rony <> wrote:

    >can anyone tell me how to implement a 120degree phase shifter for
    >using in a high power circuit and possibly a opamp model that can be
    >used for the same pls also let me know anyalternate methhods for
    >implementing the same with some other components instead of op amps


    F range??
    D from BC
    D from BC, Oct 10, 2007
    #2
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  3. rony

    HardySpicer Guest

    On Oct 10, 7:12 pm, rony <> wrote:
    > can anyone tell me how to implement a 120degree phase shifter for
    > using in a high power circuit and possibly a opamp model that can be
    > used for the same pls also let me know anyalternate methhods for
    > implementing the same with some other components instead of op amps


    You need an RLC circuit. An RC would attenuate the signal too
    much.Take the output at the cap and put all three in series. The phase
    shift is easy to calculate.Take the Laplace Transform and find the
    transfer function - then work out the phase using arctan(imag/Real).
    The solution is not unique of course. Watch the ratings of the
    cap,inductor and resistor and stand well back when switching on!

    Hardy
    HardySpicer, Oct 10, 2007
    #3
  4. rony

    neon VIP Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2006
    Messages:
    1,325
    take an op-amp amplify if need be add an rc network to get what you want. and amplify again use AND gates cross couple to generate square wave OR USE COMPARATORS
    neon, Oct 10, 2007
    #4
  5. rony

    Tom Bruhns Guest

    On Oct 9, 11:12 pm, rony <> wrote:
    > can anyone tell me how to implement a 120degree phase shifter for
    > using in a high power circuit and possibly a opamp model that can be
    > used for the same pls also let me know anyalternate methhods for
    > implementing the same with some other components instead of op amps


    What's the signal source? What frequency range? Do you need a 3-
    phase output (0--120--240 degrees) or only a 120 degree shift? Do you
    need the output to be 120 degrees from the input, or can you use a
    circuit that takes an input and provides two outputs separated by 120
    degrees? (Or three outputs, 0--120--240 from each other?) What will
    the load be on the output(s)?

    If you're operating on a fixed frequency, it's relatively easy to use
    a fixed LC circuit to get the phase shift you want, but if you need it
    to operate over a range of frequencies, it likely will be easier if
    you can use a set of three outputs that maintain a particular
    relationship to each other, but a variable phase relative to the
    input. This assumes you want the amplitudes to be held close to each
    other.

    A more complete description in the question is likely going to get you
    a better answer...

    Cheers,
    Tom


    The
    Tom Bruhns, Oct 10, 2007
    #5
  6. rony

    Jim Thompson Guest

    On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:58:07 -0700, Tom Bruhns <> wrote:

    >On Oct 9, 11:12 pm, rony <> wrote:
    >> can anyone tell me how to implement a 120degree phase shifter for
    >> using in a high power circuit and possibly a opamp model that can be
    >> used for the same pls also let me know anyalternate methhods for
    >> implementing the same with some other components instead of op amps

    >
    >What's the signal source? What frequency range? Do you need a 3-
    >phase output (0--120--240 degrees) or only a 120 degree shift? Do you
    >need the output to be 120 degrees from the input, or can you use a
    >circuit that takes an input and provides two outputs separated by 120
    >degrees? (Or three outputs, 0--120--240 from each other?) What will
    >the load be on the output(s)?
    >
    >If you're operating on a fixed frequency, it's relatively easy to use
    >a fixed LC circuit to get the phase shift you want, but if you need it
    >to operate over a range of frequencies, it likely will be easier if
    >you can use a set of three outputs that maintain a particular
    >relationship to each other, but a variable phase relative to the
    >input. This assumes you want the amplitudes to be held close to each
    >other.
    >
    >A more complete description in the question is likely going to get you
    >a better answer...
    >
    >Cheers,
    >Tom
    >
    >
    >The


    Easiest way to make an adjustable phase shifter without amplitude
    variation is push-pull drive....

    +E
    o
    |
    \
    / Variable R
    \
    |
    o----> Output
    |
    |
    |
    --- C
    ---
    |
    |
    |
    o
    -E

    ( -E is 180° out-of-phase from +E )

    ...Jim Thompson
    --
    | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

    America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave
    Jim Thompson, Oct 10, 2007
    #6
  7. On Oct 10, 9:58 am, Tom Bruhns <> wrote:
    > On Oct 9, 11:12 pm, rony <> wrote:
    >
    > > can anyone tell me how to implement a 120degree phase shifter for
    > > using in a high power circuit and possibly a opamp model that can be
    > > used for the same pls also let me know anyalternate methhods for
    > > implementing the same with some other components instead of op amps

    >
    > What's the signal source? What frequency range? Do you need a 3-
    > phase output (0--120--240 degrees) or only a 120 degree shift? Do you
    > need the output to be 120 degrees from the input, or can you use a
    > circuit that takes an input and provides two outputs separated by 120
    > degrees? (Or three outputs, 0--120--240 from each other?) What will
    > the load be on the output(s)?
    >
    > If you're operating on a fixed frequency, it's relatively easy to use
    > a fixed LC circuit to get the phase shift you want, but if you need it
    > to operate over a range of frequencies, it likely will be easier if
    > you can use a set of three outputs that maintain a particular
    > relationship to each other, but a variable phase relative to the
    > input. This assumes you want the amplitudes to be held close to each
    > other.
    >
    > A more complete description in the question is likely going to get you
    > a better answer...
    >
    > Cheers,
    > Tom


    A bit OT, but around 1980 I built a sound card to
    go off a TRS-80 Output, using this,
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-shift_oscillator

    (I used a transistor instead of an Op-Amp).

    Using the output I programmed the resistor
    values, (IIRC it was 8 bit O/P, maybe 16),
    using CMOS switches, latched.
    Anyway the tone was nearly perfect sinsodial
    and sounded great pumped through a big old
    Hi-Fi. (I don't like square wave audio).

    Phase-shift oscillators are great for Audio.
    Ken
    Ken S. Tucker, Oct 10, 2007
    #7
  8. rony

    John Fields Guest

    On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 23:12:12 -0700, rony <> wrote:

    >can anyone tell me how to implement a 120degree phase shifter for
    >using in a high power circuit and possibly a opamp model that can be
    >used for the same pls also let me know anyalternate methhods for
    >implementing the same with some other components instead of op amps


    ---
    View in Courier:


    ..[CLOCK]--+--[COUNTER]--+--[LUT 0°]--[DAC]--[LPF]--> 0° OUT
    .. | | |
    .. +-----------------------------------+
    .. | |
    .. | +--[LUT 120°]--[DAC]--[LPF]-> 120° OUT
    .. | |
    .. +-------------------------------------+



    --
    JF
    John Fields, Oct 10, 2007
    #8
  9. rony

    Tom Bruhns Guest

    On Oct 10, 10:21 am, Jim Thompson <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-I...@My-
    Web-Site.com> wrote:
    > On Wed, 10 Oct 2007 09:58:07 -0700, Tom Bruhns <> wrote:
    > >On Oct 9, 11:12 pm, rony <> wrote:
    > >> can anyone tell me how to implement a 120degree phase shifter for
    > >> using in a high power circuit and possibly a opamp model that can be
    > >> used for the same pls also let me know anyalternate methhods for
    > >> implementing the same with some other components instead of op amps

    >
    > >What's the signal source? What frequency range? Do you need a 3-
    > >phase output (0--120--240 degrees) or only a 120 degree shift? Do you
    > >need the output to be 120 degrees from the input, or can you use a
    > >circuit that takes an input and provides two outputs separated by 120
    > >degrees? (Or three outputs, 0--120--240 from each other?) What will
    > >the load be on the output(s)?

    >
    > >If you're operating on a fixed frequency, it's relatively easy to use
    > >a fixed LC circuit to get the phase shift you want, but if you need it
    > >to operate over a range of frequencies, it likely will be easier if
    > >you can use a set of three outputs that maintain a particular
    > >relationship to each other, but a variable phase relative to the
    > >input. This assumes you want the amplitudes to be held close to each
    > >other.

    >
    > >A more complete description in the question is likely going to get you
    > >a better answer...

    >
    > >Cheers,
    > >Tom

    >
    > >The

    >
    > Easiest way to make an adjustable phase shifter without amplitude
    > variation is push-pull drive....
    >
    > +E
    > o
    > |
    > \
    > / Variable R
    > \
    > |
    > o----> Output
    > |
    > |
    > |
    > --- C
    > ---
    > |
    > |
    > |
    > o
    > -E
    >
    > ( -E is 180° out-of-phase from +E )
    >
    > ...Jim Thompson
    > --
    > | James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
    > | Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
    > | Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
    > | Phoenix, Arizona Voice:(480)460-2350 | |
    > | E-mail Address at Website Fax:(480)460-2142 | Brass Rat |
    > | http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |
    >
    > America: Land of the Free, Because of the Brave


    Yes, indeed--but the phase shift of that circuit depends on frequency,
    so we need to know if the OP wants the circuit to operate over a range
    of frequencies or only at one frequency. It will help to know what
    the load is, too, and if the load is stable.

    Cheers,
    Tom
    Tom Bruhns, Oct 10, 2007
    #9
  10. rony

    Jamie Guest

    rony wrote:

    > can anyone tell me how to implement a 120degree phase shifter for
    > using in a high power circuit and possibly a opamp model that can be
    > used for the same pls also let me know anyalternate methhods for
    > implementing the same with some other components instead of op amps
    >

    if you were talking about a steady CW, I would say a
    PLL OSC so that it's 120 degree's offset.
    But, I don't think we're talking about the same thing here
    are we?



    --
    "I'm never wrong, once i thought i was, but was mistaken"
    Real Programmers Do things like this.
    http://webpages.charter.net/jamie_5
    Jamie, Oct 11, 2007
    #10
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