Circuit Breaker Wiring Question ?

Discussion in 'Electrical Engineering' started by Robert11, Aug 5, 2005.

  1. Robert11

    Robert11 Guest

    Hello:

    I am thinking about installing an Intermatic Surge Protector, Model IG1240RC
    (which replaces their EG240RC) in my 25 year old circuit breaker box.
    The box is a Federal Pacific Electric Model No. is LX112-24.

    The Intermatic unit's wiring instructions, and probably the only practical
    way, have it connected to each side of the line via a dedicated circuit
    breaker for each leg.

    The problem I have is that although I have been beating the bushes trying to
    find someone who has breakers that will fit this box (tried North American
    Switchgear and also Voyten Electric) with no luck. Will keep looking, and
    might luck out, but it looks like they are probably really unavailable.
    Really don't want to replace the box with a new one.

    So, my question is this:

    I remember from reading the NEC codes a while back that it is a real sin to
    have 2 (black) wires going to a single breaker. This was written for two
    branch circuits, of course, and that each branch must have its own breaker.

    I am wondering if this would also be a no-no if I connected the surge
    protector wire to a circuit breaker that is also feeding a branch circuit ?
    This seems a bit different than what the code was implying shouldn't be
    done, and was wondering if this might be allowable.

    It would sure solve my problem easily.

    What do you think ?

    Thanks,
    Bob
     
    Robert11, Aug 5, 2005
    #1
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  2. Robert11

    Bud Guest

    Robert11 wrote:
    > Hello:
    >
    > I am thinking about installing an Intermatic Surge Protector, Model IG1240RC
    > (which replaces their EG240RC) in my 25 year old circuit breaker box.
    > The box is a Federal Pacific Electric Model No. is LX112-24.
    >
    > The Intermatic unit's wiring instructions, and probably the only practical
    > way, have it connected to each side of the line via a dedicated circuit
    > breaker for each leg.
    >
    > The problem I have is that although I have been beating the bushes trying to
    > find someone who has breakers that will fit this box (tried North American
    > Switchgear and also Voyten Electric) with no luck. Will keep looking, and
    > might luck out, but it looks like they are probably really unavailable.
    > Really don't want to replace the box with a new one.
    >

    FPE breakers - could look for perveyors of used equipment or an
    electrical contractor that does a lot of trouble calls.

    > So, my question is this:
    >
    > I remember from reading the NEC codes a while back that it is a real sin to
    > have 2 (black) wires going to a single breaker. This was written for two
    > branch circuits, of course, and that each branch must have its own breaker.
    >

    You can't have 2 wires under the same screw unless the device is listed
    for 2. As far as I know, only Square D 15-20-30 breakers are listed. No
    problem to combine 2 or more breakers with a wire nut and a pig-tail or
    the breaker. You can combine 2 branch ckts on one breaker if they do not
    cover an objectionable number of outlets and lights; also have to
    watch out for changing phases when a circuit has a common neutral.

    > I am wondering if this would also be a no-no if I connected the surge
    > protector wire to a circuit breaker that is also feeding a branch circuit ?
    > This seems a bit different than what the code was implying shouldn't be
    > done, and was wondering if this might be allowable.
    >

    Sounds reasonable. The surge protector only draws significant current
    when shunting a surge and could trip the breaker on a long surge. Keep
    wires short

    Bud--
     
    Bud, Aug 5, 2005
    #2
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  3. Robert11

    SQLit Guest

    "Robert11" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello:
    >
    > I am thinking about installing an Intermatic Surge Protector, Model

    IG1240RC
    > (which replaces their EG240RC) in my 25 year old circuit breaker box.
    > The box is a Federal Pacific Electric Model No. is LX112-24.
    >
    > The Intermatic unit's wiring instructions, and probably the only practical
    > way, have it connected to each side of the line via a dedicated circuit
    > breaker for each leg.
    >
    > The problem I have is that although I have been beating the bushes trying

    to
    > find someone who has breakers that will fit this box (tried North American
    > Switchgear and also Voyten Electric) with no luck. Will keep looking, and
    > might luck out, but it looks like they are probably really unavailable.
    > Really don't want to replace the box with a new one.
    >
    > So, my question is this:
    >
    > I remember from reading the NEC codes a while back that it is a real sin

    to
    > have 2 (black) wires going to a single breaker. This was written for two
    > branch circuits, of course, and that each branch must have its own

    breaker.
    >
    > I am wondering if this would also be a no-no if I connected the surge
    > protector wire to a circuit breaker that is also feeding a branch circuit

    ?
    > This seems a bit different than what the code was implying shouldn't be
    > done, and was wondering if this might be allowable.
    >
    > It would sure solve my problem easily.
    >
    > What do you think ?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Bob


    You should use a 2 pole breaker.
    http://www.allbreakers.com/store.asp/pg!products/grp!417
    http://www.handh.net/FPE.htm

    google brought up 257 hits in a second. They are not that hard to find.
    Cost well we shall not discuss that.
     
    SQLit, Aug 5, 2005
    #3
  4. Robert11

    ehsjr Guest

    Robert11 wrote:
    > Hello:
    >
    > I am thinking about installing an Intermatic Surge Protector, Model IG1240RC
    > (which replaces their EG240RC) in my 25 year old circuit breaker box.
    > The box is a Federal Pacific Electric Model No. is LX112-24.
    >
    > The Intermatic unit's wiring instructions, and probably the only practical
    > way, have it connected to each side of the line via a dedicated circuit
    > breaker for each leg.
    >
    > The problem I have is that although I have been beating the bushes trying to
    > find someone who has breakers that will fit this box (tried North American
    > Switchgear and also Voyten Electric) with no luck. Will keep looking, and
    > might luck out, but it looks like they are probably really unavailable.
    > Really don't want to replace the box with a new one.
    >
    > So, my question is this:
    >
    > I remember from reading the NEC codes a while back that it is a real sin to
    > have 2 (black) wires going to a single breaker. This was written for two
    > branch circuits, of course, and that each branch must have its own breaker.
    >
    > I am wondering if this would also be a no-no if I connected the surge
    > protector wire to a circuit breaker that is also feeding a branch circuit ?
    > This seems a bit different than what the code was implying shouldn't be
    > done, and was wondering if this might be allowable.
    >
    > It would sure solve my problem easily.
    >
    > What do you think ?
    >
    > Thanks,
    > Bob
    >
    >
    >


    Do not put two wires under one breaker screw. Do one of
    the following:

    1) Add a 2 pole breaker and wire the surge supressor to it.
    or
    2) Remove the black wires from an existing two pole breaker.
    Splice the supressor wires and a jumper wire to those black
    wires - the jumper goes to the breaker
    or
    3) Do the same as the above with two adjacent single breakers
    to which you add a toggle tie.
    or
    4) Run an existing 240 volt branch into a junction box
    mounted to the service panel with a short nipple. Mount
    the supressor to the jbox and splice its wires in the j
    box to the existing 240 v branch circuit wires. Then run
    from the j-box to the breakers and ground/neutral bus.

    # 4 is least costly and avoids any issue with splicing
    inside a service entry panel.

    Ed
     
    ehsjr, Aug 5, 2005
    #4
  5. Robert11

    John Gilmer Guest


    >
    > You should use a 2 pole breaker.


    Maybe.

    I know when I got a "signal repeater/coupler" for my X-10 system the
    instructions clearly said that TWO single pole breakers were required and
    that's what I put in.

    Maybe "they" were afraid that I would not be able to find a 15 amp double
    pole breaker and would end up putting in a 20 amp.
     
    John Gilmer, Aug 5, 2005
    #5
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