Chandelier Track ?

Discussion in 'Lighting' started by Victor Roberts, Dec 21, 2007.

  1. I have a dining room chandelier that I want to move to a new
    position about 16 inches from its current position. I know
    I could just cut a new hole in the ceiling, install a new
    box at that location, seal the old hole and then repaint the
    ceiling. But, I was hoping for an easier solution, and one
    that would allow some future owner of this house to use the
    original position of the chandelier.

    Does anyone know of some device, perhaps a track system,
    that allows chandeliers to be repositioned a short distance
    away from the box in the ceiling - and also looks
    attractive?


    --
    Vic Roberts
    http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
    To reply via e-mail:
    replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
    or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

    This information is provided for educational purposes only.
    It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
    site without written permission.
    Victor Roberts, Dec 21, 2007
    #1
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  2. Victor Roberts

    Guest

    Victor Roberts <> wrote:
    > I have a dining room chandelier that I want to move to a new
    > position about 16 inches from its current position.


    I think the big question here is: how much does the chandelier weigh?
    Does the current box in the ceiling have extra support, like a ceiling
    fan box? If it does, then supporting the weight of the chandelier at
    the new location will be the interesting part. Getting the electricity
    over there is interesting too, but not as much as supporting the weight.

    A little Googling finds http://www.ylighting.com/suspensionloop.html
    which claims to be good for fixtures up to 35 pounds (15 kg). I am
    guessing that you can somehow get into the base of this device to
    connect up the wires. If I were to install this, I would support the
    track from the joists as close as I could to where the chandelier would
    hang. I would also use the biggest-diameter fastener I could, even if
    it meant that the head would stick up enough that you couldn't install
    a fixture on the track right under the fastener.

    Getting into "home brew" ideas...

    If the chandelier doesn't weigh several dozen pounds, and if there is a
    joist directly above where you want the chandelier, you can probably
    screw a hook into the joist; you can get hooks that are already painted,
    or get a plain one and paint it yourself to match the ceiling.

    As far as getting the electricity over, Wiremold has some fairly thin
    round boxes that you could put over the existing box. If you look you
    can find them in steel, which can easily be painted to match. This
    might not meet the attractiveness criterion, though.

    One option might be to install a receptacle on the existing box - you
    can get round box cover plates that have receptacles in them. Then put
    a cord and plug on the chandelier. To hide the receptacle and plug, use
    one of those bell-shaped covers that some chandeliers have, or one of
    the covers that is designed to go over the ball-and-socket joint for a
    ceiling fan. (You might have to thread the cord through the cover
    before wiring it to the chandelier.) This may not meet the electrical
    code, though.

    Alternatively, get a blank round cover with a knockout in the center.
    Install a "cord grip" in the knockout - you might know what that is,
    but if not, it's a metal fitting with a rubber bushing inside; when you
    tighten down the fitting, the bushing grips the round cord running
    through it. Paint the round cover and cord grip to match the ceiling.
    Wire the chandelier with round three-wire cable (like what extension
    cords are made out of), run the cable through the cord grip and wire it
    into the house wiring, and install the round cover. You can paint the
    screws or get ones with painted or decorative heads to attach the round
    cover. Again, this may or may not meet code; check with a local expert.

    Or, use a Wiremold box over the existing box, another one at the new
    location of the chandelier, and some Wiremold raceway in between. Then,
    install some thin wood strips (toggle bolts?) parallel to the raceway,
    and cover it all up with a thin piece of plywood painted to match the
    ceiling, or a thin piece of paneling that matches or complements the
    ceiling.

    Matt Roberds
    , Dec 24, 2007
    #2
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  3. On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 02:45:27 GMT,
    wrote:

    >Victor Roberts <> wrote:
    >> I have a dining room chandelier that I want to move to a new
    >> position about 16 inches from its current position.

    >
    >I think the big question here is: how much does the chandelier weigh?


    It's stained glass and rather heavy, perhaps 20 pounds.

    >Does the current box in the ceiling have extra support, like a ceiling
    >fan box?


    Yes, its hung from a cross bar that connects to the two
    adjacent studs.

    > If it does, then supporting the weight of the chandelier at
    >the new location will be the interesting part. Getting the electricity
    >over there is interesting too, but not as much as supporting the weight.


    Both are easy since I have access to the attic space above.

    >A little Googling finds http://www.ylighting.com/suspensionloop.html
    >which claims to be good for fixtures up to 35 pounds (15 kg).


    This looks really interesting, but I'm not sure I would want
    to hand a fragile light fixture that weighs even 20 pounds
    from anything that is held only by a standard lighting track
    mount.

    >I am
    >guessing that you can somehow get into the base of this device to
    >connect up the wires.


    There is a hole right above the support ring that may be
    designed for the power leads.

    >If I were to install this, I would support the
    >track from the joists as close as I could to where the chandelier would
    >hang. I would also use the biggest-diameter fastener I could, even if
    >it meant that the head would stick up enough that you couldn't install
    >a fixture on the track right under the fastener.


    The fixture is only 8 inches from two joists, and I can
    place a 2 x 4 above the ceiling for more support.

    >Getting into "home brew" ideas...
    >
    >If the chandelier doesn't weigh several dozen pounds, and if there is a
    >joist directly above where you want the chandelier, you can probably
    >screw a hook into the joist; you can get hooks that are already painted,
    >or get a plain one and paint it yourself to match the ceiling.


    My wife has rejected this idea :)


    >As far as getting the electricity over, Wiremold has some fairly thin
    >round boxes that you could put over the existing box. If you look you
    >can find them in steel, which can easily be painted to match. This
    >might not meet the attractiveness criterion, though.


    See immediately above :)

    >One option might be to install a receptacle on the existing box - you
    >can get round box cover plates that have receptacles in them. Then put
    >a cord and plug on the chandelier. To hide the receptacle and plug, use
    >one of those bell-shaped covers that some chandeliers have, or one of
    >the covers that is designed to go over the ball-and-socket joint for a
    >ceiling fan. (You might have to thread the cord through the cover
    >before wiring it to the chandelier.) This may not meet the electrical
    >code, though.
    >
    >Alternatively, get a blank round cover with a knockout in the center.
    >Install a "cord grip" in the knockout - you might know what that is,
    >but if not, it's a metal fitting with a rubber bushing inside; when you
    >tighten down the fitting, the bushing grips the round cord running
    >through it. Paint the round cover and cord grip to match the ceiling.
    >Wire the chandelier with round three-wire cable (like what extension
    >cords are made out of), run the cable through the cord grip and wire it
    >into the house wiring, and install the round cover. You can paint the
    >screws or get ones with painted or decorative heads to attach the round
    >cover. Again, this may or may not meet code; check with a local expert.
    >
    >Or, use a Wiremold box over the existing box, another one at the new
    >location of the chandelier, and some Wiremold raceway in between. Then,
    >install some thin wood strips (toggle bolts?) parallel to the raceway,
    >and cover it all up with a thin piece of plywood painted to match the
    >ceiling, or a thin piece of paneling that matches or complements the
    >ceiling.
    >
    >Matt Roberds


    Thanks.

    --
    Vic Roberts
    http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
    To reply via e-mail:
    replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
    or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

    This information is provided for educational purposes only.
    It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
    site without written permission.
    Victor Roberts, Dec 24, 2007
    #3
  4. Victor Roberts

    Guest

    Victor Roberts <> wrote:
    > On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 02:45:27 GMT,
    > wrote:
    >
    >> If it does, then supporting the weight of the chandelier at
    >> the new location will be the interesting part. Getting the
    >> electricity over there is interesting too, but not as much as
    >> supporting the weight.

    >
    > Both are easy since I have access to the attic space above.


    If you have access to the attic and stringent customer requirements
    (including the implied 24x365 on-call warranty support in this
    situation), I see a trip to the attic with a new junction box, a saw,
    and some Romex in your future. :)

    Assuming drywall, one way to minimize or eliminate repainting is to cut
    the hole for the new junction box just a little smaller (say 1/8" or
    3 mm) than the junction box all the way around. Then use a coarse file
    or maybe a knife to go around the edges of the hole until the junction
    box just fits. (If you use a knife, the action is more like shaving
    your face than slicing through cardboard.) The box should go in the
    hole with a very small amount of pressure - DO NOT force it! Otherwise
    you crack the drywall and have a much larger project. (Look in my
    garage for shameful proof of this.) As long as the chandelier has some
    kind of decorative trim around the base, you should be able to make the
    new location look as good as you like.

    At the old location, the first step is probably to install a regular
    steel junction box cover. Then, to make it look good, you might try
    something like the round covers you see over shut-off valves in the
    restrooms in commercial buildings. These come in different diameters
    and usually have a single screw hole in the center. I know you can get
    them in chromed steel and stainless steel - I don't know if you can get
    paintable ones, but if not, buying a stainless one, sanding it, and
    painting it will probably work OK. If your ceiling has "texture", you
    can probably put a coat of paint on the cover, apply the texture, and
    then put on another coat of paint.

    If the junction box is far enough behind the drywall, you can hold the
    cover in place with a metal strap that's longer than the hole diameter.
    Put a hole in the middle of the strap and use a sheet-metal screw through
    the cover, or weld a nut to the strap and use a machine screw, or use a
    Tinnerman nut / captive nut on the strap and use a machine screw.

    If the junction box isn't far enough behind the drywall to get away with
    this, you might drill and tap a hole in the center of the junction box
    cover, then use a nylon screw to hold the cover in place. A metal screw
    would also work, but screwing a nylon screw into a junction box might
    feel slightly less dangerous than a steel one. :)

    >> A little Googling finds http://www.ylighting.com/suspensionloop.html
    >> which claims to be good for fixtures up to 35 pounds (15 kg).

    >
    > This looks really interesting, but I'm not sure I would want to hand
    > a fragile light fixture that weighs even 20 pounds from anything that
    > is held only by a standard lighting track mount.


    Buy one and some matching track. Bolt the track to the ceiling in the
    garage, put the fitting on the track, and hang 30 pounds of crap from
    the fitting. Give the weight a good swing and jiggle every day for a
    month. If it doesn't fall apart, hang the chandelier from it and call
    it good.

    Matt Roberds
    , Dec 29, 2007
    #4
  5. On Sat, 29 Dec 2007 22:07:34 GMT,
    wrote:

    Sorry for the delayed reply.

    >Victor Roberts <> wrote:
    >> On Mon, 24 Dec 2007 02:45:27 GMT,
    >> wrote:
    >>
    >>> If it does, then supporting the weight of the chandelier at
    >>> the new location will be the interesting part. Getting the
    >>> electricity over there is interesting too, but not as much as
    >>> supporting the weight.

    >>
    >> Both are easy since I have access to the attic space above.

    >
    >If you have access to the attic and stringent customer requirements
    >(including the implied 24x365 on-call warranty support in this
    >situation), I see a trip to the attic with a new junction box, a saw,
    >and some Romex in your future. :)


    That is most definitely true.

    >Assuming drywall, one way to minimize or eliminate repainting is to cut
    >the hole for the new junction box just a little smaller (say 1/8" or
    >3 mm) than the junction box all the way around. Then use a coarse file
    >or maybe a knife to go around the edges of the hole until the junction
    >box just fits. (If you use a knife, the action is more like shaving
    >your face than slicing through cardboard.) The box should go in the
    >hole with a very small amount of pressure - DO NOT force it! Otherwise
    >you crack the drywall and have a much larger project. (Look in my
    >garage for shameful proof of this.) As long as the chandelier has some
    >kind of decorative trim around the base, you should be able to make the
    >new location look as good as you like.
    >
    >At the old location, the first step is probably to install a regular
    >steel junction box cover. Then, to make it look good, you might try
    >something like the round covers you see over shut-off valves in the
    >restrooms in commercial buildings. These come in different diameters
    >and usually have a single screw hole in the center. I know you can get
    >them in chromed steel and stainless steel - I don't know if you can get
    >paintable ones, but if not, buying a stainless one, sanding it, and
    >painting it will probably work OK. If your ceiling has "texture", you
    >can probably put a coat of paint on the cover, apply the texture, and
    >then put on another coat of paint.
    >
    >If the junction box is far enough behind the drywall, you can hold the
    >cover in place with a metal strap that's longer than the hole diameter.
    >Put a hole in the middle of the strap and use a sheet-metal screw through
    >the cover, or weld a nut to the strap and use a machine screw, or use a
    >Tinnerman nut / captive nut on the strap and use a machine screw.
    >
    >If the junction box isn't far enough behind the drywall to get away with
    >this, you might drill and tap a hole in the center of the junction box
    >cover, then use a nylon screw to hold the cover in place. A metal screw
    >would also work, but screwing a nylon screw into a junction box might
    >feel slightly less dangerous than a steel one. :)


    Installing the new box is not an issue. The only problem
    is, or was (see below) making the old location "disappear".
    No type of cover would be acceptable if it indicated that
    the old box was ever there.

    >>> A little Googling finds http://www.ylighting.com/suspensionloop.html
    >>> which claims to be good for fixtures up to 35 pounds (15 kg).

    >>
    >> This looks really interesting, but I'm not sure I would want to hand
    >> a fragile light fixture that weighs even 20 pounds from anything that
    >> is held only by a standard lighting track mount.

    >
    >Buy one and some matching track. Bolt the track to the ceiling in the
    >garage, put the fitting on the track, and hang 30 pounds of crap from
    >the fitting. Give the weight a good swing and jiggle every day for a
    >month. If it doesn't fall apart, hang the chandelier from it and call
    >it good.


    Good ideas all, but we solved the problem by moving the
    table to center the fixture :)

    --
    Vic Roberts
    http://www.RobertsResearchInc.com
    To reply via e-mail:
    replace xxx with vdr in the Reply to: address
    or use e-mail address listed at the Web site.

    This information is provided for educational purposes only.
    It may not be used in any publication or posted on any Web
    site without written permission.
    Victor Roberts, Jan 5, 2008
    #5
  6. Andrew Gabriel, Jan 6, 2008
    #6
  7. Victor Roberts

    TKM Guest

    Yep, it translates. Funny stuff.

    Terry McGowan


    "Andrew Gabriel" <> wrote in message
    news:47801df7$0$508$...
    > This is going off-topic, but the thread reminds me of one of
    > the best bits of British comedy -- the "Only Fools and Horses"
    > Chandelier episode. Not sure if it will work on a US audience,
    > but if you've for 30 minutes to spare, watch the following.
    > If you haven't got 30 minutes, just watch the last one...
    >
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTV4TkqPhhA&NR=1
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9rBINvEgDY&NR=1
    > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xt0zG0kV57M&NR=1
    >
    > --
    > Andrew
    TKM, Jan 8, 2008
    #7
    1. Advertising

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