Can one CR2032 replace two CR2016 batteries?

Discussion in 'Electronic Projects' started by chipr, Oct 12, 2012.

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  1. chipr

    chipr

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    I did a search this morning to compare the differences in coin battery types, between a CR2032 and a CR2016, commonly used for watches, CMOS battery (CR2032), car entry/alarm fobs(?)... and wound up on an older thread here that was just right on until the end.

    The second to the last question, entry, was never answered and that fit my situation exactly so I will state it here.

    I'm ordering a couple different size batteries as soon as I complete this post, one of which is a CR2032 that I will use to replace the one on my motherboard for the CMOS before it starts to go out, now at 10 years. In doing so I decided to open up my Jeep keyless entry/lock/alarm fob (I think that's what you call it) and there were two stacked CR2016 coin batteries in it.

    Both the CR2032 and the CR2016 are the same type of lithium battery and the CR2016 is exactly half as thick as the CR2032, both again the same size in diameter but the CR2032 roughly more than twice the capacity.

    For background on the prior discussion thread regarding more specific differences, see:
    http://www.electronicspoint.com/difference-between-2016-and-2032-button-batteries-t110475.html

    Here's my question:
    In this specific case I think that I can replace the two stacked CR2016's with one CR2032, since I will be buying in a multi-pack anyway because it's a better deal than buying only one for the CMOS on my motherboard.

    Does anyone know if this sounds like it would be okay?

    I have yet to try and look up the specs for the Jeep entry lock/unlock but almost wonder if it didn't originally come with one thicker coin battery instead of two stacked ones.

    Thanks,

    Newbie ordering a multimeter as well today.
    :cool:
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
    chipr, Oct 12, 2012
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  2. chipr

    CocaCola VIP Member

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    Batteries in series, aka stacked, increase the voltage, thus in your case two 2016s stacked is 6 Volts... One CR2032 is 3V...

    So to answer you question no...
     
    CocaCola, Oct 12, 2012
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  3. chipr

    chipr

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    Now I Get It...

    Thanks for your reply.

    Now that you mention it that makes sense
    and seems important to remember!


    :eek:
     
    Last edited: Oct 12, 2012
    chipr, Oct 12, 2012
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  4. chipr

    mugatea

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    Yes! One CR2032 will replace (2) CR2016's. It is the Amps that matters, not the Volts.
     
    mugatea, Jan 20, 2013
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  5. chipr

    CocaCola VIP Member

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    Wrong answer, volts are just as important, in fact more important in many ways when it comes to electronics...
     
    CocaCola, Jan 20, 2013
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  6. chipr

    mugatea

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    Well.... I replaced my remote, that had (2) CR2016's with (1) CR2032 over a year ago and it is still working fine. If "volts are just as important, in fact more important in many ways". I will try an experiment and stack (8) CR2016's together (1.5v each = 12v) and see if I can start my car with it.
     
    mugatea, Jan 21, 2013
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  7. chipr

    (*steve*) ¡sǝpodᴉʇuɐ ǝɥʇ ɹɐǝɥd Moderator

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    Yeah, that's how I start my car on a cold morning.
     
    (*steve*), Jan 21, 2013
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  8. chipr

    KrisBlueNZ Moderator

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    If your remote is supposed to have two stacked CR2016es in it, it's designed to run from 6V. If you put a CR2032 in it, you will be running it from 3V. It may work but you are not using it as designed.
    I think you're being facetious. CocaCola was not saying that current is unimportant; simply that voltage is important too. CocaCola has a lot of experience and is careful to be accurate with everything he posts. Everything he has said on this thread so far has been right.

    BTW CR2016es are 3V each so you will only need four of them to start your car. Good luck with that!
     
    KrisBlueNZ, Jan 21, 2013
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  9. chipr

    CocaCola VIP Member

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    When you selectively edit my quote and omit the specific qualifier I included in said statement, in some lame attempt to twist what I said into something else, I'll just assume you are not mature enough to owe up to being corrected when you are flat out wrong... Try fully quoting me next time, OK? You know the end of my sentence you edited out "when it comes to electronics... "

    BTW a high amp starter motor is not 'electronics', just figured I would clear that up for you since you appear to be a little confused... Hook that 12V battery (be it a car battery or stacked coin cells) up to a 3.3V or 5V IC (electronics as I stated) and let me know how unimportant voltage is, OK?

    And in the reverse hook a 24V volt power source directly to your card starter motor (by pass on board electronics) and you can get away with less amps, in fact most plug in 'car starters' exploit this principle and pump out upwards of 18V in the 'start' setting so that they don't need as many amps to crank over... And this is exploited again when a lot of car collectors convert their old 6V cars to now standard 12V, the starters motors don't require an upgrade they are happy at 12V, can't say the same for the bulbs in said cars though...

    If your remote worked, it was pure luck, a vast majority of electronics will not work with only half the voltage they are designed for, that is a FACT...
     
    CocaCola, Jan 21, 2013
    #9
  10. chipr

    mugatea

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    Correct. They are 3v each not 1.5v each. Sorry. I am not trying to put CocaCola down. I was trying to help the person who started the post.

    My point with stacking the batteries is that it equals 12v, yet, it will will not replace the 12v battery in my car. Of course it will not start my car. It Does not have enough amperage.

    Using a CR2032 is like using (2) CR2016's, because it is the outcome (Power) that matters. P=I X E. The current for a CR2016 is 90ma and the current for a CR2032 is 225ma. If you plug the those numbers in the formula (P=I X E), they are very close. If they were not close, I agree with you that it could damage the electronic device, by not using it for what it is designed for.

    If you get shocked, it is not the Voltage that can kill you, it is the Amperage.
     
    mugatea, Jan 21, 2013
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  11. chipr

    CocaCola VIP Member

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    Help is one thing, but it's evident you don't have a basic understanding to give valid advice in this case...

    Incorrect... Power aka Wattage is NOT what matters as and is not a gauge of what will work or won't work on any particular device, both voltage and amperage factor in based on the intended use and the amount that each factors in changes with every use...

    If what you said was true, imagine trying to start a car with a 1V @ 6000A power source or a 1000V @ 6A power source, or maybe a 6000V @ 1A power source how well do you think your car will perform with the above? After all it's the same power/wattage as a 12V @ 500A car battery that will work in many cars, no? Yes, as I said previous you can exploit the balance of volts to amps to some degree, but it's hardly some universal swap out variable where wattage (power) is the determining factor of what will or won't work...

    Actually it's a combination of both, they are both tied together by Ohms law and that is a very important law to learn.. There are also many factors that come into play, with a lot of them revolving around the contact resistance (cue in Ohms law) and path of current through the body... A few mA to the heart can kill you dead in the right circumstances, but it will take whatever voltage (cue in Ohms law) to deliver that amount of current to the heart based on the resistance of the completed circuit again cue in Ohms law and the path taken for said current would need to pass through the heart, not just into your body...
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
    CocaCola, Jan 21, 2013
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  12. chipr

    mugatea

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    What else would Voltage pertain to if not electronics (electricity). Leaving "when it comes to electronics... " out makes no difference. I am not saying voltage is unimportant, but what is important is Power. This would be true in everything you are talking about.

    the vast majority of electronics can work with with half the voltage if the amperage is increased to have the same power. It is NOT like taking away two D cell Batteries from a four cell flashlight and expecting it to work the same. It will not work the same. But if you could replace it with two D cell batteries (1.5v each) that had a higher amperage, it could work the same. (this is in theory)

    If I was to replace that four D cell flashlight with four AAA batteries it would not be as bright, because the AAA batteries do not have as much amperage, yet AAA and D batteries both are 1.5v. It is the combination of Voltage and Amperage that matters.

    *Please Note: I understand that the flashlight is designed for four D cell batteries and replacing them with two D cell batteries with higher amperage or 4 AAA batteries will not physically work. This is in theory.
     
    mugatea, Jan 21, 2013
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  13. chipr

    KrisBlueNZ Moderator

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    So far, you are failing quite spectacularly.
    We all know the point you were making, and you're right.
    Wrong. That paragraph shows that you have many misconceptions about the basic laws and behaviour of electric current. None of it is relevant, correct, or helpful.
    Again not true. You need voltage to make current flow; the amount of current that will flow through a person is determined by the voltage. Read up on Ohm's Law and the basics of current flow.
    You're totally wrong. Do a course or read some basic physics or electronics tutorials.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
    KrisBlueNZ, Jan 21, 2013
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  14. chipr

    CocaCola VIP Member

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    OK clearly you still don't want to admit you are incorrect, and don't quite understand...

    Did you look up the definition of electronics in say a dictionary? Here I did for you...

    A motor does not fall into that definition... Electronics does not equal electricity, that is why they are two different words with two different definitions...

    Nope, and nope you are simply wrong...

    Absolutley wrong again...

    LOL, wrong again...

    Wrong again, it will be just as bright until those AAA batteries start to fail, and that failure time will be much sooner then with D cells...

    Actually it's complete nonsense not theory at all...

    You clearly have a lot to learn, honestly you do... Many of use on this forum (including me) do this professionally for a living and have a vast amount of study and practical knowledge on the subject behind us... It's clear you have a minimal understanding at best and are trying to apply that minimal understanding as if you fully understand the subject matter, sorry doesn't work that way...
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
    CocaCola, Jan 21, 2013
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  15. chipr

    mugatea

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    WOW! Yes I know Ohms Law. I know the works of Georg Simon Ohm very well.. I teach it to my students. A shock can effect everyone differently, because of their body resistance.

    Touch a 9v transistor battery to your tongue. You will get a nice tingle. Then take a crowbar and put it across the terminals of your car battery. See if you get that same tingle. Come on, it is only a 3v differance. That is only one CR2030 coin battery.


    If you go back to your original statement "Batteries in series, aka stacked, increase the voltage, thus in your case two 2016s stacked is 6 Volts... One CR2032 is 3V...

    So to answer you question no... "

    (If I left something out, it was unintentional. I just copied and paste)

    IT CAN WORK AND IT DOES WORK! This is not Luck...........

    You are so engrossed in trying to prove me wrong, that is stopping you from understanding what I am trying to say.

    What you want out of this is, that your smart and I am dumb. I really don't want to play that game. I am not in Junior High anymore.
     
    mugatea, Jan 21, 2013
    #15
  16. chipr

    davenn Moderator

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    mugatea
    Just to help you along a bit on the learning path and understand why you are being told you are wrong with all your statements ... :)

    Just because a battery or set of batteries/cells connected together has a certain amp/hour rating, doesnt mean that thats the current that flows as soon as you turn on the switch to the equipment.
    As one of the other guys suggested ... its time for you to learn basic Ohms law in a DC circuit.

    The current flowing in a circuit is a function of the voltage applied to the circuit/load and the resistance of that load
    I ( current) = V (Volts) / R (Resistance)

    so say we have a 10VDC battery and the load resistance is 50 Ohms
    I = 10 / 50 = 0.2 A or 200mA

    with that 10 V supply, the ONLY WAY you can increase the current flow is to decrease the resistance of the load

    so say we double the voltage to 20V, now we have
    I = 20 / 50 = 0.4 A or 400mA
    See how doubling the voltage doubled the current
    Lets go the other way from the original 10V and halve the voltage to 5V
    ( all along in these examples the resistance of the load stays stable at 50 Ohms, we are just varying the voltage ... OK)
    so I = 5 / 50 = 0.1 A or 100mA
    see how that has halved the original current flowing.

    OK .... Varying the voltage usually cannot be done, as the circuit (load) is designed to work at a certain voltage and varying that voltage too much will cause the circuit to stop working .. if the voltage is lowered too much, or cause it to burn out if the voltage is increased too much as it will then be drawing excessive current.

    OK .... you cant vary the resistance of the circuit (load) as that resistance is determined by the combined resistances of the components in the circuit. There will be a great mix of series and parallel resistances and will all combine to give an overall resistance of the circuit.

    So ... the current flowing in the circuit is fixed by the voltage applied and the resistance of the circuit

    lets go back to our original figures 10V and 50 Ohms that gave a 200mA (0.2A) current flow.
    It doesnt matter if the battery or power supply is capable of 1A, 10A or 100 amps
    ONLY 200mA will flow in the circuit when the voltage applied is 10 Volts
    it just means that the battery capable of 1Amp/hour wont last as long as the battery with a 10 Amp/hour capability and the 10Amp/hour wont last as long as the 100Amp/hour battery

    Dave
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
    davenn, Jan 21, 2013
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  17. chipr

    CocaCola VIP Member

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    I'm worried, since you have failed to demonstrate you understand even the most basics...

    What are you trying to show with that? Take a crowbar across a car battery worst case you will likely get sprayed with acid and potentially flames as it explodes... Or best case you generate a lot of heat, as the crowbar shorts the battery...

    There is a lot more difference between a 9V battery and a car 12 battery... Both in available amps and internal limiting resistance as well as the obvious voltage difference... You are at an apples to oranges comparison...

    Nope, it's a huge difference in available Amps as well, big game changer in this instance...

    No, you lucked out... I could easily show you 1001 examples where it won't work, but it's clear you believe you know it all...

    ".....a little knowledge is apt to puff up, and make men giddy, but a greater share of it will set them right, and bring them to low and humble thoughts of themselves."

    Pay attention to the above, it might do you good...

    You are saying you lucked out, everything else has been nonsense... It's you sir that simply won't admit your lack of knowledge and understanding of the subject matter...

    You could have fooled me, it's not about who it's smarter it's about what is factually right and wrong and you are simply wrong in your claims and supposed theories...
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
    CocaCola, Jan 21, 2013
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  18. chipr

    davenn Moderator

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    dang lots of replies during my long typing session haha

    mugatea

    your responses sow a complete non understanding of Ohms law
    I really hope you read carefully what I wrote to you and take it in and understand it

    As CC said its not about who's smarter or not
    You can go presenting information that is highly inaccurate
    you need to stop and reassess you understanding of the situation and see where you went wrong. we all make mistakes over the years, some live with us a long time before being corrected.
    THIS is your chance to take a big step in your knowledge level :)

    Dave
     
    davenn, Jan 21, 2013
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  19. chipr

    CocaCola VIP Member

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    Dave thanks for giving mugatea a full explanation of Ohm's law vs my 'wrongs' but I believe he simply believes he 'knows' better and will ignore it fully, thus the reason I didn't bother going into details...

    Until he admits he is wrong and admits he doesn't even have a grasp of even the basics, explaining it to him is really fruitless...
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2013
    CocaCola, Jan 21, 2013
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  20. chipr

    davenn Moderator

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    G'day mate

    trust you are well :)

    You may well turn out to be right, I'm an ol' softie ;) and will give the benefit of the doubt till we see more from him.
    I really do hope that mugatea takes advantage of this opportunity to get his understandings sorted out :)
    Probably some where in the past he was taught incorrectly and that has become ingrained ( can happen to anyone) and unfortunately he's now passing it onto another generation

    cheers
    Dave
     
    davenn, Jan 21, 2013
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