Attic Smoke Detectors Question

Discussion in 'Security Alarms' started by Robert11, Apr 17, 2005.

  1. Robert11

    Robert11 Guest

    Hello:

    Am wondering about putting some kind of detector in the Attic.

    I read that smokes are the recommended type, and certainly not Heat types
    due to the
    attic getting quite hot in the summer, of course,

    So, may I please ask:

    a. Attic's are by nature a bit dusty.

    How "likely" is it for them to trigger on the dust, and give a false
    alarm ?

    b. Relative to item (a) above, what would be best for the attic:
    photoelectric or ionization ?

    Or, just go with the dual type I am now using throughout the house, the
    Kidde PI 2000 ?

    Thanks again to all for all the great help.
    Sure do appreciate it.

    Bob
    Robert11, Apr 17, 2005
    #1
    1. Advertising

  2. I wouldn't put a smoke in an attic - any kind of smoke. In my geo. area, and the type of construction/insulation they use here, smokes in an attic would be a pain in the ass.

    When forced to do so, I'd use a 200 degree fixed heat detector - not rate of rise. At least that works best in my area, for the few that I have done.


    "Robert11" <> wrote in message news:...
    > Hello:
    >
    > Am wondering about putting some kind of detector in the Attic.
    >
    > I read that smokes are the recommended type, and certainly not Heat types
    > due to the
    > attic getting quite hot in the summer, of course,
    >
    > So, may I please ask:
    >
    > a. Attic's are by nature a bit dusty.
    >
    > How "likely" is it for them to trigger on the dust, and give a false
    > alarm ?
    >
    > b. Relative to item (a) above, what would be best for the attic:
    > photoelectric or ionization ?
    >
    > Or, just go with the dual type I am now using throughout the house, the
    > Kidde PI 2000 ?
    >
    > Thanks again to all for all the great help.
    > Sure do appreciate it.
    >
    > Bob
    >
    >
    Crash Gordon®, Apr 17, 2005
    #2
    1. Advertising

  3. Robert11

    Bob Worthy Guest

    "Robert11" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello:
    >
    > Am wondering about putting some kind of detector in the Attic.
    >
    > I read that smokes are the recommended type, and certainly not Heat types
    > due to the
    > attic getting quite hot in the summer, of course,


    Where did you read that? When things are in print, most will take it as
    gospel. Contrary to what you read, it seems you already had the answer to
    your question as to why "not" to use smokes in the attic.

    Bob4Secur

    > So, may I please ask:
    >
    > a. Attic's are by nature a bit dusty.
    >
    > How "likely" is it for them to trigger on the dust, and give a false
    > alarm ?
    Bob Worthy, Apr 18, 2005
    #3
  4. Robert11

    Norm Mugford Guest

    I would avoid using a smoke detector in your attic.
    Too many "dust" and "critter" variables to deal with.
    I would use a fixed 135 degree heat detector. I have not
    had any problems with Edwards 281B heat detectors
    in attics here in Florida.
    Reminder "Heat detectors should only be used when
    property protection alone is involved".

    Norm Mugford



    "Robert11" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > Hello:
    >
    > Am wondering about putting some kind of detector in the Attic.
    >
    > I read that smokes are the recommended type, and certainly not Heat types
    > due to the
    > attic getting quite hot in the summer, of course,
    >
    > So, may I please ask:
    >
    > a. Attic's are by nature a bit dusty.
    >
    > How "likely" is it for them to trigger on the dust, and give a false
    > alarm ?
    >
    > b. Relative to item (a) above, what would be best for the attic:
    > photoelectric or ionization ?
    >
    > Or, just go with the dual type I am now using throughout the house,

    the
    > Kidde PI 2000 ?
    >
    > Thanks again to all for all the great help.
    > Sure do appreciate it.
    >
    > Bob
    >
    >
    Norm Mugford, Apr 18, 2005
    #4
  5. > I would avoid using a smoke detector in your attic.
    > Too many "dust" and "critter" variables to deal with.
    > I would use a fixed 135 degree heat detector...


    Do NOT install a 135ºF fixed temperature or ROR heat detector in an attic.
    It will false. Use either a 194º or 200º detector. Most of my
    installations have been in the northeastern states where 194ºF rate-of-rise
    (ROR) type detectors are the norm for attics. If you live in the desert
    southwest, you may want to consider using fixed temp heat detectors.

    In either case, never use a 145º heat sensor in the attic (unless you happen
    to live in Alaska).

    > Reminder "Heat detectors should only be
    > used when property protection alone is
    > involved".


    That much is correct. Heat detectors are not considered life safety
    devices.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>
    Robert L. Bass, Apr 18, 2005
    #5
  6. Attics in the desert SW are well over 150 in the summer...especially when outside temps are 100+. R-O-R would be a disaster out here as well since a lot of homes are vented by gable vents and we do get some "cool" breezes the could effect ror detectors.

    And..you AINT gonna get me up in an attic in August to service any freekin kind of detector! :)

    How was Brazil?


    "Robert L. Bass" <> wrote in message news:...
    > > I would avoid using a smoke detector in your attic.
    > > Too many "dust" and "critter" variables to deal with.
    > > I would use a fixed 135 degree heat detector...

    >
    > Do NOT install a 135ºF fixed temperature or ROR heat detector in an attic.
    > It will false. Use either a 194º or 200º detector. Most of my
    > installations have been in the northeastern states where 194ºF rate-of-rise
    > (ROR) type detectors are the norm for attics. If you live in the desert
    > southwest, you may want to consider using fixed temp heat detectors.
    >
    > In either case, never use a 145º heat sensor in the attic (unless you happen
    > to live in Alaska).
    >
    > > Reminder "Heat detectors should only be
    > > used when property protection alone is
    > > involved".

    >
    > That much is correct. Heat detectors are not considered life safety
    > devices.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Regards,
    > Robert L Bass
    >
    > =============================>
    > Bass Home Electronics
    > 2291 Pine View Circle
    > Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    > 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    > http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    > =============================>
    >
    >
    >
    Crash Gordon®, Apr 18, 2005
    #6
  7. > And..you AINT gonna get me up in an
    > attic in August to service any freekin
    > kind of detector! :)


    I hear that. I didn't allow my techs to go into attics in New England
    during summer afternoons. I can't even imagine how miserable they would be
    in Phoenix.

    > How was Brazil?


    Fabulous! We spent a lot of time in Pelourinho (the old city) in Salvador
    taking pictures, eating wonderful Brazilian cuisine, listening to various
    live bands and dancing for hours on end. Considering I'm a terrible dancer
    the people of Brazil are much to be commended for their tolerance. :^)

    My wife celebrated a birthday while we were there -- the first in many years
    when her sister who also lives in the US would not be able to attend.
    Birthdays are really big deals in Brazil so this was kind of sad for her.
    As a surprise, I bought tickets for my sister-in-law to show up at the
    party. It was a great surprise and she was just delighted. The party was a
    catered affair that lasted well into the night with a live band, half a
    dozen waiters, beautifully decorated tables of all kinds of food and
    pastries and everything else.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>
    Robert L. Bass, Apr 18, 2005
    #7
  8. Robert11

    Norm Mugford Guest

    I've never had a problem with 135 degree heats in attics,
    in Connecticut or here in Florida.

    What experiences have you had that causes you to
    recommend a 194 or 200 degree heat?

    Norm Mugford


    "Robert L. Bass" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > > I would avoid using a smoke detector in your attic.
    > > Too many "dust" and "critter" variables to deal with.
    > > I would use a fixed 135 degree heat detector...

    >
    > Do NOT install a 135ºF fixed temperature or ROR heat detector in an attic.
    > It will false. Use either a 194º or 200º detector. Most of my
    > installations have been in the northeastern states where 194ºF

    rate-of-rise
    > (ROR) type detectors are the norm for attics. If you live in the desert
    > southwest, you may want to consider using fixed temp heat detectors.
    >
    > In either case, never use a 145º heat sensor in the attic (unless you

    happen
    > to live in Alaska).
    >
    > > Reminder "Heat detectors should only be
    > > used when property protection alone is
    > > involved".

    >
    > That much is correct. Heat detectors are not considered life safety
    > devices.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Regards,
    > Robert L Bass
    >
    > =============================>
    > Bass Home Electronics
    > 2291 Pine View Circle
    > Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    > 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    > http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    > =============================>
    >
    >
    Norm Mugford, Apr 18, 2005
    #8
  9. The first birthday in many years?...I think all wives do that ! :)


    "Robert L. Bass" <> wrote in message news:...
    > > And..you AINT gonna get me up in an
    > > attic in August to service any freekin
    > > kind of detector! :)

    >
    > I hear that. I didn't allow my techs to go into attics in New England
    > during summer afternoons. I can't even imagine how miserable they would be
    > in Phoenix.
    >
    > > How was Brazil?

    >
    > Fabulous! We spent a lot of time in Pelourinho (the old city) in Salvador
    > taking pictures, eating wonderful Brazilian cuisine, listening to various
    > live bands and dancing for hours on end. Considering I'm a terrible dancer
    > the people of Brazil are much to be commended for their tolerance. :^)
    >
    > My wife celebrated a birthday while we were there -- the first in many years
    > when her sister who also lives in the US would not be able to attend.
    > Birthdays are really big deals in Brazil so this was kind of sad for her.
    > As a surprise, I bought tickets for my sister-in-law to show up at the
    > party. It was a great surprise and she was just delighted. The party was a
    > catered affair that lasted well into the night with a live band, half a
    > dozen waiters, beautifully decorated tables of all kinds of food and
    > pastries and everything else.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Regards,
    > Robert L Bass
    >
    > =============================>
    > Bass Home Electronics
    > 2291 Pine View Circle
    > Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    > 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    > http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    > =============================>
    >
    >
    Crash Gordon®, Apr 18, 2005
    #9
  10. > What experiences have you had that
    > causes you to recommend a 194 or 200
    > degree heat?


    I've installed and serviced professional security systems for nearly a
    quarter century.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>
    Robert L. Bass, Apr 18, 2005
    #10
  11. > The first birthday in many years?...
    > I think all wives do that ! :)


    You've got that right. :^)
    Robert L. Bass, Apr 18, 2005
    #11
  12. Robert11

    Norm Mugford Guest

    Mr. Bass said: "I've installed and serviced professional
    security systems for nearly a quarter century".

    And that tells us what Mr. Bass?
    (I did not ask how long you've been in the alarm field).

    Let me repeat the question.

    "What experiences have you had that causes you to
    recommend a 194 or 200 degree heat"?

    Have you had verifiable false alarms with 135 degree
    heats in attics or some other malfunction?


    Norm Mugford









    "Robert L. Bass" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > > What experiences have you had that
    > > causes you to recommend a 194 or 200
    > > degree heat?

    >
    > I've installed and serviced professional security systems for nearly a
    > quarter century.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Regards,
    > Robert L Bass
    >
    > =============================>
    > Bass Home Electronics
    > 2291 Pine View Circle
    > Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    > 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    > http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    > =============================>
    >
    >
    Norm Mugford, Apr 18, 2005
    #12
  13. >> "I've installed and serviced professional
    >> security systems for nearly a quarter century".

    >
    > And that tells us what Mr. Bass?
    > (I did not ask how long you've been
    > in the alarm field).


    I understood the question as you meant it and I answered it. Your
    misunderstanding of common alarm installation practices is not my problem.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>
    Robert L. Bass, Apr 18, 2005
    #13
  14. Robert11

    Norm Mugford Guest

    Then answer the question Mr. Bass.

    "What experiences have you had that causes you to
    recommend a 194 or 200 degree heat"?

    Your analogy is like recommending a 2 foot gap for
    a door opening. If it big enough, it won't false alarm.

    Just answer the question.....

    Norm Mugford


    "Robert L. Bass" <> wrote in message
    news:...
    > >> "I've installed and serviced professional
    > >> security systems for nearly a quarter century".

    > >
    > > And that tells us what Mr. Bass?
    > > (I did not ask how long you've been
    > > in the alarm field).

    >
    > I understood the question as you meant it and I answered it. Your
    > misunderstanding of common alarm installation practices is not my problem.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Regards,
    > Robert L Bass
    >
    > =============================>
    > Bass Home Electronics
    > 2291 Pine View Circle
    > Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    > 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    > http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    > =============================>
    >
    >
    Norm Mugford, Apr 18, 2005
    #14
  15. Before she was 40 her birthday celebrations lasted a week...now...they are swept under the rug with b-connectors that I lose.


    "Robert L. Bass" <> wrote in message news:...
    > > The first birthday in many years?...
    > > I think all wives do that ! :)

    >
    > You've got that right. :^)
    >
    >
    >
    Crash Gordon®, Apr 18, 2005
    #15
  16. > Then answer the question Mr. Bass.

    I already did. I'm sorry if that perplexes you.

    --

    Regards,
    Robert L Bass

    =============================>
    Bass Home Electronics
    2291 Pine View Circle
    Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    =============================>
    Robert L. Bass, Apr 18, 2005
    #16
  17. > Before she was 40 her birthday
    > celebrations lasted a week...now
    > ...they are swept under the rug
    > with b-connectors that I lose.


    Well, all kidding aside, my sweetheart is very easy going about stuff like
    that. She has no problem with people knowing her age. Maybe that's because
    they're always surprised. She looks younger than she is. She's also (like
    most of the Brazilians I know) an incredible dancer. :^)
    Robert L. Bass, Apr 18, 2005
    #17
  18. Max temp for an attic is too close to the safety tolerance range for a 135
    degree HD.



    "Norm Mugford" <> wrote in message
    news:H_Q8e.95760$...
    > I've never had a problem with 135 degree heats in attics,
    > in Connecticut or here in Florida.
    >
    > What experiences have you had that causes you to
    > recommend a 194 or 200 degree heat?
    >
    > Norm Mugford
    >
    >
    > "Robert L. Bass" <> wrote in message
    > news:...
    >> > I would avoid using a smoke detector in your attic.
    >> > Too many "dust" and "critter" variables to deal with.
    >> > I would use a fixed 135 degree heat detector...

    >>
    >> Do NOT install a 135ºF fixed temperature or ROR heat detector in an
    >> attic.
    >> It will false. Use either a 194º or 200º detector. Most of my
    >> installations have been in the northeastern states where 194ºF

    > rate-of-rise
    >> (ROR) type detectors are the norm for attics. If you live in the desert
    >> southwest, you may want to consider using fixed temp heat detectors.
    >>
    >> In either case, never use a 145º heat sensor in the attic (unless you

    > happen
    >> to live in Alaska).
    >>
    >> > Reminder "Heat detectors should only be
    >> > used when property protection alone is
    >> > involved".

    >>
    >> That much is correct. Heat detectors are not considered life safety
    >> devices.
    >>
    >> --
    >>
    >> Regards,
    >> Robert L Bass
    >>
    >> =============================>
    >> Bass Home Electronics
    >> 2291 Pine View Circle
    >> Sarasota · Florida · 34231
    >> 877-722-8900 Sales & Tech Support
    >> http://www.bassburglaralarms.com
    >> =============================>
    >>
    >>

    >
    >
    Stanley Barthfarkle, Apr 18, 2005
    #18
  19. > Max temp for an attic is too close to the
    > safety tolerance range for a 135 degree HD.


    Shhh. Mugford doesn't know. :^)
    Robert L. Bass, Apr 19, 2005
    #19
  20. Robert11

    Anonymous Guest

    Norm Mugford said:

    >I've never had a problem with 135 degree heats in attics,
    >in Connecticut or here in Florida.
    >
    >What experiences have you had that causes you to
    >recommend a 194 or 200 degree heat?



    Norm, you should not use 135 degree heat detectors in locations where
    ceiling temperature exceeds 100 degrees. See the following link for proof
    (scroll down to "Specifications"):

    http://www.chemetronics.com/500.shtml

    I think we can all agree that attics sometimes exceed 100 degrees. And
    yes, I have seen 135 degree rate of rise heads pop. It's not the rate of
    rise portion that goes, it's the fixed temperature sensor that melts.

    In almost all fires, the rate of rise detection system will trip long
    before the fixed temperature is reached. The only exception is a fire
    where the increase in temperature is very gradual. The rate of rise sensor
    is exactly the same in a 136 degree detector as in a 190 degree detector,
    meaning that in almost all cases, both units will perform identically. So
    there is little to lose by using a 190 degree detector, and much
    reliability to be gained.

    - badenov
    Anonymous, Apr 19, 2005
    #20
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