Re: too much hum...

From: (E-Mail Removed) (Floyd*L.*Davidson)
"Don Kelly" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
"Floyd L. Davidson" <(E-Mail Removed)>
... ( small portion deleted)

Thanks for the information. Some of what I saw does seem to be related
to the thoughts below:
The convention appears to be based on the historical usage of the 1960's
where punch cards were used. These had an 80 character limit per card,
but, typical Fortran use at the time limited the actual program line
length to 72 characters. Remaining characters were used for line numbers
and housekeeping.
Ultimately, bitnet and everything else does indeed trace back to the 80
character limit on the punch cards. That permeated computer "data
record" size consideration in many ways for decades. Record sizes for
monitor screens, for tape files and even for hard disk files in some
cases, as well a line sizes for bitnet data transfers, are all examples.
I suppose it is also probably true that the Fortran 72 character limit
as a method to permit some flex in correction and addition might also be
the basis for many people thinking that 72 is a good place to wrap
original text for Usenet, plus that being the RFC blessed wrap point for
headers adds too.
Long before computers it was known that for reading, line length
matters, but I don't really know the history there, or have any feel for
how it all related. I'd guess that standard paper sizes were chosen to
match a line length to standard type sizes??
I had my share of this system where a card out of order meant, often, a
days delay in getting a run on a mainframe- not including coding
errors!. This usable character line may be based on a 8.5 inch (6 inch
widewith margins) paper page at 12 characters per inch which is still
used -on paper. (This may be the source of historical arguments of the
insignificance of "why 60Hz vs 50 Hz" )
Hence 72 characters per line may make sense -<IF> one is printing out
the message.
I use 64 because it is reputed to be the easiest to read. However, line
length for Usenet messages also has to take into account the result of
downstream processing. Three things happen there often enough that they
cannot be ignored. One of course is that many people have ill configured
software that wraps at 72 columns. Another is the addition of quoted
text markers in the left margin. And last but not least, many displays
are exactly 80 characters wide.
For all of those reasons I often consider changing to 60 column wrap,
just to give a little more room before other peoples software makes a
total mess out of it!
It appears that TokaMundo is about 40 years out of date. What's new?
He's just confused, though to be honest he's no less confused than many
others. There's a lot of software out there with default configurations
that are equally confused, and that's where he came up with the idea.
I, as with many users, do not know of any usenet line length limitation,
so what you say is interesting, and lines, in practise by most. are
folded according to the space "on screen".
In one way or another, yep. The big division is between those who came
from the UNIX world, where Usenet originated, who think the *originator*
is the one who formats paragraphs while the reader is only responsible
for providing an appropriate sized screen, as opposed to the Microsoft
world where the original text is unformatted, and the *reader's
software* adjusts the paragraph to fit the size of the display screen,
and hence the reader sets the line size by adjusting display width.
Two very basically different concepts, which are difficult to mix, and
which both have at least some claim to being useful.
I by far prefer to format my own paragraphs, and sometimes restructure
entire sentences to get better formatting. The *last* thing I want is
each reader's software to reformatting *my* paragraphs differently!
Given the looks of what many people post, you can perhaps sympathize
with that... :-)
Without user counting (and why should the user count?- the computer can
handle this sort of routine better than people, supposedly freeing
people to do real thinking), I happened to have jumped from an 800x600
17 inch CRT monitor to a 19 inch LCD at 1240x1024 so that , in a window,
I get more characters per line and expect that anyone wishing to print,
for whatever masochistic reasons, my messages has the intelligence to
cope.
Except that if we take the above paragraph, which you sent out with one
line having 75 columns, and which now has 76, and if you respond to this
it will have 77... and it won't be long before it is either over 80
columns and cannot be properly displayed on many screens, /or/ somebody
else chimes in, using software that wraps everything at 72 columns and
in the process makes an absolute total mess out of the quote marks in
the left margin.
(Of course, it helps to have software that can straighten all of that
out too, but not everyone does.)
If they are counting to check against some "standard" then
"intelligence" is not an applicable term.
As for TokaMundo - as I said before - pathetic.
Floyd, I may disagree (and have done so) with you on a technical basis
but it is just that - a reasonable argument, not name calling to hide
ignorance. You have the courtesy and intelligence to do the same so that
we both learn. Thank you.
Not that cussing at people doesn't sometimes have benefits, (((teeheehee
I thought so too))®))) but these people who can't respond to
disagreement in any other way just aren't far enough up the food
chain.(((right! enough is enough))®)
Oddly enough, like most Alaskans I typically use profanity when actually
talking. (I don't call the people I'm talking to names though.) But it
is a fact that if I stop swearing, people who know me start listening
*real* *carefully*, because that is a very good indication I'm *not*
being friendly or in any way having fun. :-) I don't cuss at people I'm
telling off!
Floyd L. Davidson * * * * *
<http://web.newsguy.com/floyd_davidson>
Ukpeagvik (Barrow, Alaska) * * * * * * * * * * *
* (E-Mail Removed)

--->

My software seem to compress the page along with it's text., I can't
always make out who said what myself.

On Continuing: I use what I have here to the best of my ablity to
conform to the norms of posting and replying, sometimes I don't agree
that is always the best way to handle all cases, so, I improvise just to
get my 2 cents of info in., I've always danced to a different drummer,
with a tune of my own also But, I like the Band that plays here };-)

<<Short Story>>
Fresh out of school I played basketball with one of my old classmates,
he had gotten a good job, was making lots of money, i wasn't., he beat
me at the hoops, but weeks later i discussed the way he beat me with
other friends from my hood and it so happened that he boldly cheated and
carried the ball (scooped it & tossed it over my head to hmself) dozens
of times until he won..... He was a dirty low down cheat, I had trusted
him (not knowing hoops that well other than making the basket, he did)
for his success and let him get over thinking he was Boss.Later on, he
almost got the knuckle sandwhich I had prepared for him, when I
challenged him to another match and told him what he'd die of };-), but
he cowardly back off and apologized before he fled the court with the
same devious smirk on his face he had displayed when he beat me..... I
can forgive but, I never forget.

Success doesn't make one right.
Roy