Re: OT: Solar Charging 12V Car Battery

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> OT: Solar Charging 12V Car Battery...
>
> My son, Aaron, software engineer turned farmer, has acreage in the San
> Tan Valley with no source of electric power.
>
> He'd like some artificial light for his chicken coop to increase the
> egg output.
>
> Lighting and timers are easy to find off-the-shelf, but I need some
> pointers toward finding a good quality solar panel that can charge a
> 12V car battery.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> ...Jim Thompson

Visit alt.energy.homepower

And when your ready to buy go to http://www.sunelec.com/
They have the best prices.

A few pointers.
1,You need to figure out your battery bank capacity base on your load.
2, find out how long you want the battery bank to last if there is no
sun (in days)
3, how many hours a day does your location get (there are charts from
NREL http://www.nrel.gov/gis/solar.html)
4, Don't deep discharge your batteries. Aim for 50% -30% discharge (Big
batteries, NO golf cart batteries here)
5, Buss voltage 12, 24 or 48vdc? Panels come in different
configurations.
6, Stick with Polycrystalline panels
7, NEC, The system needs to be installed to Code. most of the code
pertaining to solar installs came from Wileys Code corner
(http://photovoltaics.sandia.gov/docs...ode_Corner.htm) NEC
2008 had the updates. Check with the local authorities for permits.
8, You'll need a good charge controller (MPPT) and an alternate AC-line
charger.
9, If the cost of running Utility power is less than Solar then that is
the way to go.


Hope that helps.

Cheers

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:04:05 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:21:03 -0500, Jim Yanik <(E-Mail Removed)>
>wrote:
>
>>one problem I foresee is that the solar panels will not be able to
>>initially charge the battery array up to full charge.
>>Charge them up before you take them out to the no-AC area.
>
>Not a problem, Aaron's house (with AC power) is only ~5 miles away.
>
> ...Jim Thompson

Use a generator to charge them. or just let them charge on the system
for a few days.
FYI, a backup generator would be a good idea. Periodically you need
to equalize the lead acid deep cycle batteries, so AC power might be a
must depending upon the system size.

Equalize - controlled over charge. see http://batteryfaq.org/

Cheers

"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 13:12:23 -0400, Martin Riddle
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 19:04:05 -0700, Jim Thompson
>><To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 20:21:03 -0500, Jim Yanik <(E-Mail Removed)>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>one problem I foresee is that the solar panels will not be able to
>>>>initially charge the battery array up to full charge.
>>>>Charge them up before you take them out to the no-AC area.
>>>
>>>Not a problem, Aaron's house (with AC power) is only ~5 miles away.
>>>
>>> ...Jim Thompson
>>
>>Use a generator to charge them. or just let them charge on the system
>>for a few days.
>>FYI, a backup generator would be a good idea. Periodically you need
>>to equalize the lead acid deep cycle batteries, so AC power might be a
>>must depending upon the system size.
>>
>>Equalize - controlled over charge. see http://batteryfaq.org/
>>
>>Cheers
>
> Interesting thought. Maybe an M-G set would be better than a solar
> setup... and it's so-o-o-o less leftist ;-)
>
>
M-G ? I guess you meant NG. You can get gensets that run on Propane
too. Or even Diesel.
But with the current prices of NG, it's worth looking into.

Cheers

On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 18:12:17 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Thu, 29 Mar 2012 21:02:55 -0400, "Martin Riddle"
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Jim Thompson" <To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote
>>in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>>> OT: Solar Charging 12V Car Battery...
>>>
>>> My son, Aaron, software engineer turned farmer, has acreage in the San
>>> Tan Valley with no source of electric power.
>>>
>>> He'd like some artificial light for his chicken coop to increase the
>>> egg output.
>>>
>>> Lighting and timers are easy to find off-the-shelf, but I need some
>>> pointers toward finding a good quality solar panel that can charge a
>>> 12V car battery.
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance.
>>>
>>> ...Jim Thompson
>>
>>Visit alt.energy.homepower
>>
>>And when your ready to buy go to http://www.sunelec.com/
>>They have the best prices.
>>
>>A few pointers.
>>1,You need to figure out your battery bank capacity base on your load.
>>2, find out how long you want the battery bank to last if there is no
>>sun (in days)
>
>In Arizona ?:-)
>
>>3, how many hours a day does your location get (there are charts from
>>NREL http://www.nrel.gov/gis/solar.html)
>>4, Don't deep discharge your batteries. Aim for 50% -30% discharge (Big
>>batteries, NO golf cart batteries here)
>>5, Buss voltage 12, 24 or 48vdc? Panels come in different
>>configurations.
>>6, Stick with Polycrystalline panels
>>7, NEC, The system needs to be installed to Code. most of the code
>>pertaining to solar installs came from Wileys Code corner
>>(http://photovoltaics.sandia.gov/docs...ode_Corner.htm) NEC
>>2008 had the updates. Check with the local authorities for permits.
>
>We shoot "local authorities" ;-)
>
>>8, You'll need a good charge controller (MPPT) and an alternate AC-line
>>charger.
>
>No AC... rural Arizona.
>
>>9, If the cost of running Utility power is less than Solar then that is
>>the way to go.
>>
>>
>>Hope that helps.
>>
>>Cheers
>>
>>
>
>I'll check out your links, and battery suggestions. Thanks, Martin!
>
> ...Jim Thompson

Something i learned not so long ago is that L-A batteries do much better
when "conditioned" new before being placed in service. "Conditioning"
amounts to fully charging and discharging down to 40 % remaining capacity
or so for 4 to 6 cycles. Total capacity improvement is on the order of
40 % or better.

?-)

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 11:05:54 -0700, Joel Koltner
<zapwire-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Jim Thompson wrote:
>> What does "Certified for California" mean?
>
>That you can use the thing in California without the California Air
>Resources Board (CARP) giving you a ticket: California has the strictest
>laws regarding exhaust gas emissions in the nation, and some extra
>equipment (I'm not sure what) typically has to be added to the exhaust
>to meet their specs, AIUI.
>
>It's enough additional cost that for some manufacturers it's worthwhile
>to have a California version and a non-California version.

So Kalifornia to require catalytic converters on emergency generators.

?;-)

On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 12:56:13 -0500, Tim Wescott <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Fri, 30 Mar 2012 10:35:58 -0700, Joel Koltner wrote:
>
>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>> Interesting thought. Maybe an M-G set would be better than a solar
>>> setup... and it's so-o-o-o less leftist ;-)
>>
>> It'll definitely be cheaper, particularly in the short term -- there are
>> some awfully cheap generators out there, like this one:
>> http://www.harborfreight.com/engines...rs/gas-engine-
>generators/800-rated-watts-900-max-watts-portable-generator-66619.html
>> .
>>
>> The main problem with cheap (<$500) generators is that often their
>> design lifespans are in the ballpark of a low thousands of hours. I.e.,
>> they're intended to help people through power failures or work on the
>> occasional campout, but not to be run on a truly regular basis. Still,
>> if you just run the thing every few days for a few hours to charge up a
>> bank of batteries, you might find it worthwhile even if the thing dies
>> after a year or two.
>
>If I may inject even more cynicism into the conversation: I think the
>"design life" that Harbor Fright cares about is the duration between the
>point where the consumer sees the generator and the point where their
>check clears the bank.

Not *quite* that bad. ;-)

"If for any reason you are not satisfied with any item purchased, you
may return the insured product within 90 days for a full refund or
replacement, whichever you prefer. Shipping and handling are
non-refundable."

"GENERATOR RETURNS Any generator returned for any reason after the
30 day satisfaction guarantee period will be subject to a 20% restocking
charge and must be returned freight paid."

Don't know how they reconcile the 30/90 periods, above.

>I mean -- what is a generator for, to generator manufacturer? To make
>electricity, or to make money?
>
>Honda probably has the delusion that their generators should make
>electricity for you, and money for Honda -- so they might actually make
>something reliable.

Might? For the difference it had better.