Re: Oscilloscopes

RogerN wrote:
> What's the best scope to get for the money for mostly digital circuits?
> I'll have some analog but nothing real high frequency, like analog

But, your *digital* stuff *will* be "high frequency" (at least
considerably higher than the analog examples you mentioned)

> connections to the microcontroller, maybe some SMPS circuits. I was looking
> at some microcontroller and fpga designs that you can get kits starting at
> less than $100 and going up with more speed and features. Also, I see on
> eBay you can get some nice looking Techtronics scopes for $350 or so, 4
> channel digital, etc. Just wondering if something like the AVR scope would
> be a useful tool or if I would be wishing I went ahead and bought a nice
> used scope on eBay.

You might look into an older logic analyzer "for mostly digital
circuits". Often, the cost of shipping is the biggest expense! :>

Of course, it also depends on the types of problems you are
trying to troubleshoot with the device...

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> On Feb 7, 1:57 pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:
>> RogerN wrote:
>>> What's the best scope to get for the money for mostly digital circuits?
>>> I'll have some analog but nothing real high frequency, like analog
>> But, your *digital* stuff *will* be "high frequency" (at least
>> considerably higher than the analog examples you mentioned)
>>
>>> connections to the microcontroller, maybe some SMPS circuits. I was looking
>>> at some microcontroller and fpga designs that you can get kits starting at
>>> less than $100 and going up with more speed and features. Also, I see on
>>> eBay you can get some nice looking Techtronics scopes for $350 or so, 4
>>> channel digital, etc. Just wondering if something like the AVR scope would
>>> be a useful tool or if I would be wishing I went ahead and bought a nice
>>> used scope on eBay.
>> You might look into an older logic analyzer "for mostly digital
>> circuits". Often, the cost of shipping is the biggest expense! :>
>>
>> Of course, it also depends on the types of problems you are
>> trying to troubleshoot with the device...
>
> If you get a used logic analyzer, make sure it has the "pods". I'm
> simply amazed at how the box and pods get separated.

Ah, yes. And, more importantly, any *micrograbbers* that
might be attached to the pods! Otherwise, you'll spend more
on *those* than the logic analyzer itself! :<

(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
> On Feb 7, 1:57 pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:
>> RogerN wrote:
>>> What's the best scope to get for the money for mostly digital circuits?
>>> I'll have some analog but nothing real high frequency, like analog
>> But, your *digital* stuff *will* be "high frequency" (at least
>> considerably higher than the analog examples you mentioned)
>>
>>> connections to the microcontroller, maybe some SMPS circuits. I was looking
>>> at some microcontroller and fpga designs that you can get kits starting at
>>> less than $100 and going up with more speed and features. Also, I see on
>>> eBay you can get some nice looking Techtronics scopes for $350 or so, 4
>>> channel digital, etc. Just wondering if something like the AVR scope would
>>> be a useful tool or if I would be wishing I went ahead and bought a nice
>>> used scope on eBay.
>> You might look into an older logic analyzer "for mostly digital
>> circuits". Often, the cost of shipping is the biggest expense! :>
>>
>> Of course, it also depends on the types of problems you are
>> trying to troubleshoot with the device...
>
> If you get a used logic analyzer, make sure it has the "pods". I'm
> simply amazed at how the box and pods get separated.
>
I asked that question once. Turns out that anything in a big box
is an instrument. The other stuff goes in the wire recycle box.
By the time it gets to anybody who cares about it, it's too late.

Just look around the lab. Anything not in use has it's probes in
a drawer somewhere.

Another factor is that if the recycler does know what she's doing,
she knows that probes get separated. The probes are much easier to sell
and bring more profit than the main box.

Bargain hunters will gladly pay $50 for a box and then another $200
on EBAY for broken probes, but they wouldn't pay $200 for the whole thing
working.
Simple matter of supply/demand/greed/frugality...

D Yuniskis <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>> On Feb 7, 1:57 pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:
>>> RogerN wrote:
>>>> What's the best scope to get for the money for mostly digital circuits?
>>>> I'll have some analog but nothing real high frequency, like analog
>>> But, your *digital* stuff *will* be "high frequency" (at least
>>> considerably higher than the analog examples you mentioned)
>>>
>>>> connections to the microcontroller, maybe some SMPS circuits. I was looking
>>>> at some microcontroller and fpga designs that you can get kits starting at
>>>> less than $100 and going up with more speed and features. Also, I see on
>>>> eBay you can get some nice looking Techtronics scopes for $350 or so, 4
>>>> channel digital, etc. Just wondering if something like the AVR scope would
>>>> be a useful tool or if I would be wishing I went ahead and bought a nice
>>>> used scope on eBay.
>>> You might look into an older logic analyzer "for mostly digital
>>> circuits". Often, the cost of shipping is the biggest expense! :>
>>>
>>> Of course, it also depends on the types of problems you are
>>> trying to troubleshoot with the device...
>>
>> If you get a used logic analyzer, make sure it has the "pods". I'm
>> simply amazed at how the box and pods get separated.
>
>Ah, yes. And, more importantly, any *micrograbbers* that
>might be attached to the pods! Otherwise, you'll spend more
>on *those* than the logic analyzer itself! :<

The rate at which micrograbbers release themselves is
e^number_of_grabbers per hour. Besides with current devices you're
better of soldering thin wires directly to a header which connects to
the pod.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 23:24:33 -0800 (PST), "(E-Mail Removed)" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Feb 7, 1:57*pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:
>> RogerN wrote:
>> > What's the best scope to get for the money for mostly digital circuits?
>> > I'll have some analog but nothing real high frequency, like analog
>>
>> But, your *digital* stuff *will* be "high frequency" (at least
>> considerably higher than the analog examples you mentioned)
>>
>> > connections to the microcontroller, maybe some SMPS circuits. *I was looking
>> > at some microcontroller and fpga designs that you can get kits starting at
>> > less than $100 and going up with more speed and features. *Also, Isee on
>> > eBay you can get some nice looking Techtronics scopes for $350 or so, 4
>> > channel digital, etc. *Just wondering if something like the AVR scope would
>> > be a useful tool or if I would be wishing I went ahead and bought a nice
>> > used scope on eBay.
>>
>> You might look into an older logic analyzer "for mostly digital
>> circuits". *Often, the cost of shipping is the biggest expense! *:>
>>
>> Of course, it also depends on the types of problems you are
>> trying to troubleshoot with the device...
>
>If you get a used logic analyzer, make sure it has the "pods". I'm
>simply amazed at how the box and pods get separated.

I am not sure that i would even bother with used logic analyzers,
USB pods are cheaper and usually fast enough (100 Mstates/s with
glitch capture). If your speeds are greater than that you need to
consider alternative data capture methods.

On Mon, 08 Feb 2010 20:36:24 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) (Nico Coesel) wrote:

>D Yuniskis <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>(E-Mail Removed) wrote:
>>> On Feb 7, 1:57 pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:
>>>> RogerN wrote:
>>>>> What's the best scope to get for the money for mostly digital circuits?
>>>>> I'll have some analog but nothing real high frequency, like analog
>>>> But, your *digital* stuff *will* be "high frequency" (at least
>>>> considerably higher than the analog examples you mentioned)
>>>>
>>>>> connections to the microcontroller, maybe some SMPS circuits. I was looking
>>>>> at some microcontroller and fpga designs that you can get kits starting at
>>>>> less than $100 and going up with more speed and features. Also, I see on
>>>>> eBay you can get some nice looking Techtronics scopes for $350 or so, 4
>>>>> channel digital, etc. Just wondering if something like the AVR scope would
>>>>> be a useful tool or if I would be wishing I went ahead and bought anice
>>>>> used scope on eBay.
>>>> You might look into an older logic analyzer "for mostly digital
>>>> circuits". Often, the cost of shipping is the biggest expense! :>
>>>>
>>>> Of course, it also depends on the types of problems you are
>>>> trying to troubleshoot with the device...
>>>
>>> If you get a used logic analyzer, make sure it has the "pods". I'm
>>> simply amazed at how the box and pods get separated.
>>
>>Ah, yes. And, more importantly, any *micrograbbers* that
>>might be attached to the pods! Otherwise, you'll spend more
>>on *those* than the logic analyzer itself! :<
>
>The rate at which micrograbbers release themselves is
>e^number_of_grabbers per hour. Besides with current devices you're
>better of soldering thin wires directly to a header which connects to
>the pod.

In both cases the connector to the pod is going to kill you.

"JosephKK"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 23:24:33 -0800 (PST), "(E-Mail Removed)" =
><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Feb 7, 1:57=A0pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:
>>> RogerN wrote:
>>> > What's the best scope to get for the money for mostly digital =
>circuits?
>>> > I'll have some analog but nothing real high frequency, like analog
>>>
>>> But, your *digital* stuff *will* be "high frequency" (at least
>>> considerably higher than the analog examples you mentioned)
>>>
>>> > connections to the microcontroller, maybe some SMPS circuits. =A0I =
>was looking
>>> > at some microcontroller and fpga designs that you can get kits =
>starting at
>>> > less than $100 and going up with more speed and features. =A0Also, I=
> see on
>>> > eBay you can get some nice looking Techtronics scopes for $350 or =
>so, 4
>>> > channel digital, etc. =A0Just wondering if something like the AVR =
>scope would
>>> > be a useful tool or if I would be wishing I went ahead and bought a =
>nice
>>> > used scope on eBay.
>>>
>>> You might look into an older logic analyzer "for mostly digital
>>> circuits". =A0Often, the cost of shipping is the biggest expense! =
>=A0:>
>>>
>>> Of course, it also depends on the types of problems you are
>>> trying to troubleshoot with the device...
>>
>>If you get a used logic analyzer, make sure it has the "pods". I'm
>>simply amazed at how the box and pods get separated.
>
>I am not sure that i would even bother with used logic analyzers,=20
>USB pods are cheaper and usually fast enough (100 Mstates/s with=20
>glitch capture). If your speeds are greater than that you need to=20
>consider alternative data capture methods.

I recently purchased a used logic analyzer from Tek for $450. I looked
at the USB LAs as well but if you want something nice (lot of depth,
at least 1Gs/s, versatile triggering and input specifications
specified at the tip of the probe) you'll pay a lot more.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:01:22 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) (Nico Coesel) wrote:

>"JosephKK"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 23:24:33 -0800 (PST), "(E-Mail Removed)" =
>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>On Feb 7, 1:57=A0pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:
>>>> RogerN wrote:
>>>> > What's the best scope to get for the money for mostly digital =
>>circuits?
>>>> > I'll have some analog but nothing real high frequency, like analog
>>>>
>>>> But, your *digital* stuff *will* be "high frequency" (at least
>>>> considerably higher than the analog examples you mentioned)
>>>>
>>>> > connections to the microcontroller, maybe some SMPS circuits. =A0I =
>>was looking
>>>> > at some microcontroller and fpga designs that you can get kits =
>>starting at
>>>> > less than $100 and going up with more speed and features. =A0Also, I=
>> see on
>>>> > eBay you can get some nice looking Techtronics scopes for $350 or =
>>so, 4
>>>> > channel digital, etc. =A0Just wondering if something like the AVR =
>>scope would
>>>> > be a useful tool or if I would be wishing I went ahead and bought a =
>>nice
>>>> > used scope on eBay.
>>>>
>>>> You might look into an older logic analyzer "for mostly digital
>>>> circuits". =A0Often, the cost of shipping is the biggest expense! =
>>=A0:>
>>>>
>>>> Of course, it also depends on the types of problems you are
>>>> trying to troubleshoot with the device...
>>>
>>>If you get a used logic analyzer, make sure it has the "pods". I'm
>>>simply amazed at how the box and pods get separated.
>>
>>I am not sure that i would even bother with used logic analyzers,=20
>>USB pods are cheaper and usually fast enough (100 Mstates/s with=20
>>glitch capture). If your speeds are greater than that you need to=20
>>consider alternative data capture methods.
>
>I recently purchased a used logic analyzer from Tek for $450. I looked
>at the USB LAs as well but if you want something nice (lot of depth,
>at least 1Gs/s, versatile triggering and input specifications
>specified at the tip of the probe) you'll pay a lot more.

At that speed the choices are get good stuff or go without. Did that price
include pods and probes?

"JosephKK"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Thu, 11 Feb 2010 18:01:22 GMT, (E-Mail Removed) (Nico Coesel) wrote:
>
>>"JosephKK"<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 23:24:33 -0800 (PST), "(E-Mail Removed)" =3D
>>><(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Feb 7, 1:57=3DA0pm, D Yuniskis <not.going.to...@seen.com> wrote:
>>>>> RogerN wrote:
>>>>> > What's the best scope to get for the money for mostly digital =3D
>>>circuits?
>>>>> > I'll have some analog but nothing real high frequency, like analog
>>>>>
>>>>> But, your *digital* stuff *will* be "high frequency" (at least
>>>>> considerably higher than the analog examples you mentioned)
>>>>>
>>>>> > connections to the microcontroller, maybe some SMPS circuits. =
>=3DA0I =3D
>>>was looking
>>>>> > at some microcontroller and fpga designs that you can get kits =3D
>>>starting at
>>>>> > less than $100 and going up with more speed and features. =
>=3DA0Also, I=3D
>>> see on
>>>>> > eBay you can get some nice looking Techtronics scopes for $350 or =
>=3D
>>>so, 4
>>>>> > channel digital, etc. =3DA0Just wondering if something like the =
>AVR =3D
>>>scope would
>>>>> > be a useful tool or if I would be wishing I went ahead and bought =
>a =3D
>>>nice
>>>>> > used scope on eBay.
>>>>>
>>>>> You might look into an older logic analyzer "for mostly digital
>>>>> circuits". =3DA0Often, the cost of shipping is the biggest expense! =
>=3D
>>>=3DA0:>
>>>>>
>>>>> Of course, it also depends on the types of problems you are
>>>>> trying to troubleshoot with the device...
>>>>
>>>>If you get a used logic analyzer, make sure it has the "pods". I'm
>>>>simply amazed at how the box and pods get separated.
>>>
>>>I am not sure that i would even bother with used logic analyzers,=3D20
>>>USB pods are cheaper and usually fast enough (100 Mstates/s with=3D20
>>>glitch capture). If your speeds are greater than that you need to=3D20
>>>consider alternative data capture methods.
>>
>>I recently purchased a used logic analyzer from Tek for $450. I looked
>>at the USB LAs as well but if you want something nice (lot of depth,
>>at least 1Gs/s, versatile triggering and input specifications
>>specified at the tip of the probe) you'll pay a lot more.
>
>At that speed the choices are get good stuff or go without. Did that =
>price=20
>include pods and probes?

Yes. It came with 3 16-channel probes and an extra 4M deep module.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------