Re: Art of Electronics 3rd edition? (probably the billionth timethis has been asked here)

John Larkin wrote:
> On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 11:58:40 -0700 (PDT), UAFEEUndergrad
> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>> I'll keep this short, because I am sure this has been asked a billion
>> times already.
>> Does anyone know if the Art of Electronics 3rd edition will be
>> released soon? I read there is a possibility of it being released
>> early next year. I have also heard that the 2011 date is an urban
>> legend. I have been looking over the AoE 2 and think it's amazing. I
>> will buy one Art of Electronics Book, that much is clear, but I don't
>> want to end up buying the second edition now, if the 3rd edition is
>> going to be released before I graduate in 2012.
>> Thanks for any info, and thanks for your patience.
>>
>> The Alaskan EE Undergrad
>> Montz
>
> Hey, stay behind the learning curve and save a few bucks.
>

Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff _while_
they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE sets one back
less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for that.

<shaking head>

Ok, OTOH this brings me assignments so I won't complain :-)

Note to Benjamin (can't read your posts): I paid good money for the 1st
edition of the Radar Handbook while fully aware of the fact that the 2nd
edition was coming out in due course. Because I wanted to learn this
stuff, right then and there, and not wait.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Jay Ts wrote:
> Jim Thompson wrote:
>> Jay Ts wrote:
>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>> Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff _while_
>>>> they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE sets one back
>>>> less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for that.
>>>>
>>>> <shaking head>
>>> Hey, don't be so hard. When I was in college, my main concern was having
>>> enough money to buy food, and I couldn't always do that!
>> You _can_ work your way thru college.
>
> Speak for yourself, Jim!
>
>> While I had a tuition, room and
>> board scholarship, I had to work for books, etc. First year I washed
>> dishes :-( After that I found a technician job in MIT Building 20.
>
> I washed dishes, too! And later worked for the Computer
> Science Department designing CAD software and IC layout.
>

I skipped the washing dishes kind of work. But I did some rather
dangerous jobs before getting my degree. The upside was that those paid
rather well.


> But for me, it was actually against the rules at Caltech.


Then the rules are wrong.


> I did it anyway, but made very little money, and it took
> time away from studying, so it hurt my grades. ...


I did the same, made about $6/h or so, in the 80's. Not CAD and layout
but board level design. Yes, it did hurt my grades but it was one of the
best decisions I ever made at university, to actually build stuff, make
stuff happen. You can't learn that in classes.


> There was a reason it was against the rules -- it didn't work.
>

No, it's wrong rules. Seriously, nobody ever looked at my grades after I
had my masters :-)

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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Use another domain or send PM.

Phil Hobbs wrote:
> John Larkin wrote:
>> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 09:13:26 -0700 (PDT), Jim MacArthur
>> <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>> The other must-have book is Phil's:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Building-Elect...Making-Applied...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> even if the cover is a tad garish.
>>>>
>>>> John
>>> Hey John, couldn't agree more about Hobbs. I'm wondering about
>>> whether to get the 2nd edition -- the one with the garish cover. Is
>>> there a significant amount of new material? Might just get it anyway;
>>> folks with Phil's sense of humor need all the support they can get...
>>>
>>
>> I haven't compared them side-by-side. Maybe Phil will tell us about
>> the changes.
>>
>> The cover thing isn't his fault.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>
> The books have nearly the same number of pages, but they shrank the
> font. At the same font size, the second edition has about 100 pages of
> new material, including things I learned in the interim and additional
> explanations and background material for some sections that were pitched
> at too high a level initially. ...


But hopefully they let you keep the mention of John 6:40. I liked that.

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

John Larkin wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:03:35 -0700, Joerg <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
>> Jay Ts wrote:
>>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>> Jay Ts wrote:
>>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>>> Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff _while_
>>>>>> they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE sets one back
>>>>>> less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <shaking head>
>>>>> Hey, don't be so hard. When I was in college, my main concern was having
>>>>> enough money to buy food, and I couldn't always do that!
>>>> You _can_ work your way thru college.
>>> Speak for yourself, Jim!
>>>
>>>> While I had a tuition, room and
>>>> board scholarship, I had to work for books, etc. First year I washed
>>>> dishes :-( After that I found a technician job in MIT Building 20.
>>> I washed dishes, too! And later worked for the Computer
>>> Science Department designing CAD software and IC layout.
>>>
>> I skipped the washing dishes kind of work. But I did some rather
>> dangerous jobs before getting my degree. The upside was that those paid
>> rather well.
>>
>
> I always designed electronics. I did try real work for a couple of
> weekends and didn't care for it. When I was a freshman at Tulane, I
> had a tuition scholarship, and TANO corporation put me on salary for
> over $400 a month, if you can imagine such a sum. Flight hardware for
> the S1B and the C5A, marine automation, SCADA, all sorts of stuff. I
> had my own computers (HP9100, PDP-8, PDP-11) before the Tulane EE
> department had one. Had it made, with my $80 apartment and 25 cent
> draft beer and 85 cent fried oyster po-boys.
>

I think we also had a PDP-11 type computer on the oil rig. A special
ruggedized one, conformal coating on the boards and such. The job was
sometimes hazardous. Mounting little explosive charges into core sampler
takers and so on. One guy lost half his neck doing that (but lived).


> The EE faculty at Tulane, mostly jerks, disapproved of students
> working or marrying. And presumably eating.
>

Maybe they were concerned about cholesterol levels from all those fried
oysters :-)

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

Jay Ts wrote:
> Joerg wrote:
>> Jay Ts wrote:
>>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>> Jay Ts wrote:
>>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>>> Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff
>>>>>> _while_ they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE
>>>>>> sets one back less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for
>>>>>> that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <shaking head>
>>>>> Hey, don't be so hard. When I was in college, my main concern was
>>>>> having enough money to buy food, and I couldn't always do that!
>>>> You _can_ work your way thru college.
>>> Speak for yourself, Jim!
>>>
>>>> While I had a tuition, room and
>>>> board scholarship, I had to work for books, etc. First year I washed
>>>> dishes :-( After that I found a technician job in MIT Building 20.
>>> I washed dishes, too! And later worked for the Computer Science
>>> Department designing CAD software and IC layout.
>>> But for me, it was actually against the rules at Caltech.
>> Then the rules are wrong.
>
> In your opinion, and you know very little about the facts
> of the matter. ...


My opinion is based on experience, and that's been over 25 years now. I
found that folks who had a healthy dose of hands-on electronics design
skills by the time they graduated were often more mature when it came to
designing stuff on their job.


> ... And the rule was wrong in my opinion, too,
> at the time. I broke it because I was desperate, and as
> far as I could tell, I had no choice.
>
> What I was told about that rule is that it was made because the
> administration knew that due to Caltech's exceptionally stressful
> academic workload, it was not considered humanly possible to maintain
> passing grades there (that is, remain in "good academic standing")
> while also maintaining any kind of job. Too many students who tried
> it had failed out of school as a result. It was said that the rule
> was implemented for the students, not against them. As I recall,
> it applied only to freshmen and sophomores.
>

Well, in the first couple of years they didn't exactly encourage us
either and you would not be accepted as a tech at one of the institutes
that early. I was, but with a special exemption and because I knew much
of the stuff they taught us already. But there was no explicit
discouragement regarding work. In fact, my school required a minimum of
three months industrial experience before you were allowed to sit for
any exam after the initial two years. During the 2nd half of your
studies you had to accrue another mandatory three months in industry but
this time in a hardcore high-tech environment. Oh, and you had to find
those intern positions on your own, the university did not provide any
sort of exchange for that (other than peg boards in the cantinas,
bring-your-own-pegs). That was a very good rule.


> I don't think it was that particular rule that was the problem,
> but rather, an academic system that was apparently designed
> to torture brilliant minds more than to help the students get
> a good start in life.
>

Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we used
to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't even own
a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many are totally
lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...


> And BTW, I also learned more useful things from my job than
> I did in classes! Aside from paying for food and other necessities,
> maybe that's one of the reasons why it was so important for me
> to have it. That job actually led me directly to getting a
> job at JPL, and later, my first job in the "real world".
>

Excellent. Most of my real know-how initially came from tons of ham
radio projects so I went into university with a pretty sound grasp WRT
designing transistor level circuits. Many of our ultra-achievers who
sported GPA lots better than mine weren't even able to repair their TV
sets. They probably still aren't.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

"gmail" domain blocked because of excessive spam.
Use another domain or send PM.

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 08:59:50 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On 11 Oct 2010 00:30:40 GMT, Jay Ts <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>
>>Joerg wrote:
>>> John Larkin wrote:
>>>> UAFEEUndergrad <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I'll keep this short, because I am sure this has been asked a billion
>>>>> times already.
>>>>> Does anyone know if the Art of Electronics 3rd edition will be
>>>>> released soon?
>>
>>No. :-P
>>
>>>>> I read there is a possibility of it being released
>>>>> early next year. I have also heard that the 2011 date is an urban
>>>>> legend. I have been looking over the AoE 2 and think it's amazing. I
>>>>> will buy one Art of Electronics Book, that much is clear, but I don't
>>>>> want to end up buying the second edition now, if the 3rd edition is
>>>>> going to be released before I graduate in 2012. Thanks for any info,
>>>>> and thanks for your patience.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Alaskan EE Undergrad
>>>>> Montz
>>>>
>>>> Hey, stay behind the learning curve and save a few bucks.
>>>>
>>> Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff _while_
>>> they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE sets one back
>>> less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for that.
>>>
>>> <shaking head>
>>
>>Hey, don't be so hard. When I was in college, my main concern
>>was having enough money to buy food, and I couldn't always
>>do that! I had already taken out "major loans" to pay
>>for tuition, room and board, and textbooks, etc., but it wasn't
>>enough to actually pay for all of those things. I had to
>>watch every dollar, and even doing my best, I ran out of money
>>more than once and could not get food to eat.
>>
>>If he is considering buying a copy of AoE at all, he
>>is doing quite well, IMO.
>>
>>> Note to Benjamin (can't read your posts): I paid good money for the 1st
>>> edition of the Radar Handbook while fully aware of the fact that the 2nd
>>> edition was coming out in due course. Because I wanted to learn this
>>> stuff, right then and there, and not wait.
>>
>>Good attitude!
>>
>>How about this: Buy a used copy of the 2nd edition off Amazon.com,
>>and read it while waiting for the 3rd edition. Then you can sell
>>it there and "upgrade" when (or _if_???) the 3rd edition is published.
>>I checked just now, and there are several copies available used
>>for about $66.
>>
>>If you are serious about learning electronics, this book is an
>>absolute "must have". So if you can cough up $66 plus shipping
>>(without dying from hunger :-), just do it.
>>
>>Jay Ts
>
>You _can_ work your way thru college. While I had a tuition, room and
>board scholarship, I had to work for books, etc. First year I washed
>dishes :-( After that I found a technician job in MIT Building 20.

I had a tuition scholarship my Senior year but paid for everything else (well,
between the two of us .

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:09:13 -0700, Jim Thompson
<To-Email-Use-The-Envelope-(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 10:03:35 -0700, Joerg <(E-Mail Removed)>
>wrote:
>
>>Jay Ts wrote:
>>> Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>> Jay Ts wrote:
>>>>> Joerg wrote:
>>>>>> Why are so few people willing to solder and learn _real_ stuff _while_
>>>>>> they are at college or university? I mean, a copy of AoE sets one back
>>>>>> less than $100, no need to take out a major loan for that.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> <shaking head>
>>>>> Hey, don't be so hard. When I was in college, my main concern was having
>>>>> enough money to buy food, and I couldn't always do that!
>>>> You _can_ work your way thru college.
>>>
>>> Speak for yourself, Jim!
>>>
>>>> While I had a tuition, room and
>>>> board scholarship, I had to work for books, etc. First year I washed
>>>> dishes :-( After that I found a technician job in MIT Building 20.
>>>
>>> I washed dishes, too! And later worked for the Computer
>>> Science Department designing CAD software and IC layout.
>>>
>>
>>I skipped the washing dishes kind of work. But I did some rather
>>dangerous jobs before getting my degree. The upside was that those paid
>>rather well.
>>
>>
>>> But for me, it was actually against the rules at Caltech.
>>
>>
>>Then the rules are wrong.
>>
>>
>>> I did it anyway, but made very little money, and it took
>>> time away from studying, so it hurt my grades. ...
>>
>>
>>I did the same, made about $6/h or so, in the 80's.
>
>Youngsters... I made $1.90 (1958-1962)

I made $1.50 (1970), until they figured out that even a state university had
to pay the federal minimum ($1.60). My junior and senior years I made about
$.25 over minimum ($2.00-$2.25). The experience got me my first job, when
most weren't even getting interviews.

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:51:24 -0700, John Larkin
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 14:46:29 -0700, Joerg <(E-Mail Removed)>
>wrote:
>
>>
>>Nothing wrong with a tough regimen, like military boot camp it makes
>>people tough and they need that for business. However, I find that
>>practical experience is sorely lacking in our current academic
>>environment. Asians are still tinkering and building stuff like we used
>>to do decades ago, while folks in the Western world often don't even own
>>a soldering iron. Plopped in front of a Tektronix 2465 many are totally
>>lost. Guess where the jobs are going ...
>
>Heck, those ancient analog scopes confuse me. All the traces are the
>same color!

I'm still in the habit of offsetting each trace a division or three.

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 20:48:03 +0000, Jay Ts wrote:
> Jim Thompson wrote:

>> Or you're not as good a student.
>
> Excuse me. What exactly was that supposed to mean?
>
Thompson's probably having a PMS attach or hot flushes or something.

I think he needs a Pamprin. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:48:26 -0700, John Larkin wrote:
> On 11 Oct 2010 20:48:03 GMT, Jay Ts <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:
>>Jim Thompson wrote:
>>>
>>> Or you're not as good a student.
>>
>>Excuse me. What exactly was that supposed to mean?
>
> What he's telling you is that he's a lot smarter than you are. He does
> that a lot.
>
Is it really smarts, or is he simply an analog savant? He sure doesn't
seem very smart about anything else.

Cheers!
Rich