Pocket EMP device with a disposable camera's flash?

sk8terg1rl wrote:

> Jim Yanik wrote:
>
>>"sk8terg1rl" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
>>news:(E-Mail Removed) groups.com:
>>
>>
>>>Ancient_Hacker wrote:
>>>
>>>>sk8terg1rl wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Hey guys, I heard a tale about someone successfully building an
>>>>>improvised pocket EMP device that fried RFID tags. IIRC he apparently
>>>>>removed the flashbulb and replaced it with a simple LC tank circuit.
>>>>
>>>>Nope, can't do it that way. The xenon flashtube is directly connected
>>>>across the main storage capacitor. It's triggered into firing by a
>>>>high voltage pulse applied to a thin wire that's wound around the tube.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>A LC circuit of course can't be triggered that way. I guess you could
>>>>put the LC in series with the flashtube, so there's be a several amp
>>>>pulse into it. But that's not going to generate much of a RF field.
>>>
>>>Can't you could just break the flashtube and effectively turn it into a
>>>large resistor,
>>
>>It does not turn into a resistor,it turns into an open circuit;a big air
>>gap.
>>You obviously do not know how a xenon flashtube works.
>>
>>
>>>and "short circuit" the LC in what were its input
>>>leads? AIUI all you're really taking from the disposable camera is its
>>>capacitor, the means to charge it and the trigger to discharge it. All
>>>of which should work independently of whether you have a flashtube or
>>>LC circuit connected to it.
>>
>>Better learn HOW the flashtube is triggered and how a xenon flashtube
>>works.
>>
>>Hint;the flashtube IS the switch.
>
>
> OK, so if I understand correctly: the trigger pulse ionises the Xenon,
> which then becomes conducting and the main discharge from the capacitor
> follows.
>
> Depending on the circuitry of the disposable camera, the capacitor's
> discharge is either controlled by a second switch, or simply by virtue
> of the Xenon becoming conducting.
>
> If it is the former, no problem - that second switch simply needs to be
> triggered or replaced to bypass it.
>
> If it is the latter, then replacing the Xenon with an inductance coil
> will cause the capacitor to discharge immediately after the trigger
> pulse is fired.
>
> So in theory it should work; correct me if I am wrong please.
>
The inductor is made with copper wire, which is rather conductive to
say the least - thereby putting a short circuit across a capacitor which
cannot charge in the first place.
As hinted perviously, the Xenon flash tube *is* the switch.
So if you want the capacitor to charge, and at some pre-determined
time to discharge into the LC circuit, you will need to add a switch
(hint: an SCR will do).

Didi wrote:
>
> My point is, however, that technological progress will inevitably bring
> with itself either a "zero secrets" society or something even worse
> than Orwells (after all, he wrote 1984, not 2084....).


Actually he wrote 1948, but he swapped the last two digits. Check the
original copyright date.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"sk8terg1rl" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed) oups.com...
>
> OK, so if I understand correctly: the trigger pulse ionises the Xenon,
> which then becomes conducting and the main discharge from the capacitor
> follows.

Yes.

>
> Depending on the circuitry of the disposable camera, the capacitor's
> discharge is either controlled by a second switch, or simply by virtue
> of the Xenon becoming conducting.

There is no "second" switch.

> If it is the former, no problem - that second switch simply needs to be
> triggered or replaced to bypass it.
>
> If it is the latter, then replacing the Xenon with an inductance coil
> will cause the capacitor to discharge immediately after the trigger
> pulse is fired.

No - work out why before you electrocute yourself please.

> So in theory it should work; correct me if I am wrong please.

Your "theory" is screwed!

On a sunny day (Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:51:38 +0100) it happened "Frithiof Andreas
Jensen" <frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com> wrote in
<eif3fa$5b0$(E-Mail Removed)>:

>No - work out why before you electrocute yourself please.
>
>> So in theory it should work; correct me if I am wrong please.
>
>Your "theory" is screwed!

If anyone had bothered to look up and _read_ the original article,
you would find they _do_ use a swicth, take out the flashbulb, and
replace it with a coil.

Original text:
# Blitzschaltung eines alten, externen Fotoblitzes mit Lichtleitzahl 24.
Der Kondensator dieses Blitzgerätes hat eine Kapazität von 330?F und 330V Spannung.
# Selbstgewickelte Spule, Maße: 4,5*8cm, lackierter Kupferdraht, 1mm dick, 5 Windungen


So a home wound coil of 4.5 x 8 cm of 1mm thick wire, 5 turns, in series with
a switch, with a HV cap of 330uF at 330V.

RFID-Zapper:
https://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/wiki/RFID-Zapper
<quote>
Hierzu verwenden wir einen hochkapazitiven und hochvoltigen
Blitzkondensator, wie wir ihn in einer billigen Einwegkamera finden, die wir
mit einer Spule aus lackiertem Kupferdraht nachrüsten. (Ein zusätzlicher
Schalter erwies sich auch als notwendig.) U
<end quote>
^^^^^^^^
'shalter = switch.

You close the switch, and bingo.


RFID detector (click the small pictures for diagram and PCB coil):
http://www.heise.de/ct/05/02/202/

"Jan Panteltje" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:eif5uf$a15$(E-Mail Removed)...
> On a sunny day (Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:51:38 +0100) it happened "Frithiof Andreas
> Jensen" <frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com> wrote in
> <eif3fa$5b0$(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
> >No - work out why before you electrocute yourself please.
> >
> >> So in theory it should work; correct me if I am wrong please.
> >
> >Your "theory" is screwed!
>
> If anyone had bothered to look up and _read_ the original article,
> you would find they _do_ use a swicth, take out the flashbulb, and
> replace it with a coil.

- judgement is passed much more efficiently without excessive knowledge ;-)


>
> Original text:
> # Blitzschaltung eines alten, externen Fotoblitzes mit Lichtleitzahl 24.
> Der Kondensator dieses Blitzgerätes hat eine Kapazität von 330?F und 330V
Spannung.
> # Selbstgewickelte Spule, Maße: 4,5*8cm, lackierter Kupferdraht, 1mm dick, 5
Windungen
>
>
> So a home wound coil of 4.5 x 8 cm of 1mm thick wire, 5 turns, in series with
> a switch, with a HV cap of 330uF at 330V.
>
> RFID-Zapper:
> https://events.ccc.de/congress/2005/wiki/RFID-Zapper
> <quote>
> Hierzu verwenden wir einen hochkapazitiven und hochvoltigen
> Blitzkondensator, wie wir ihn in einer billigen Einwegkamera finden, die wir
> mit einer Spule aus lackiertem Kupferdraht nachrüsten. (Ein zusätzlicher
> Schalter erwies sich auch als notwendig.) U
> <end quote>
> ^^^^^^^^
> 'shalter = switch.
>
> You close the switch, and bingo.

BUT - The flash tube is such a nice High Current switch and the trigger
mechanism is conveniently compatible with timers e.t.c. It would be a shame not
to use it!

>
>
> RFID detector (click the small pictures for diagram and PCB coil):
> http://www.heise.de/ct/05/02/202/
>

On a sunny day (Fri, 3 Nov 2006 11:46:49 +0100) it happened "Frithiof Andreas
Jensen" <frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com> wrote in
<eif6mp$6vg$(E-Mail Removed)>:


>> You close the switch, and bingo.
>
>BUT - The flash tube is such a nice High Current switch and the trigger
>mechanism is conveniently compatible with timers e.t.c. It would be a shame not
>to use it!

True, but I'd suspect a lot of energy to go into the flash, and less into the
coil.

On Thu, 02 Nov 2006 15:09:23 -0800, sk8terg1rl wrote:

> Jim Thompson wrote:
>
>> So? Don't jerk off in public ;-)
>
> It has less to do with the police catching legitimate criminals, than
> criminalising the innocent and acting with impunity.
>
> For example, the police who recently murdered an innocent, restrained
> and unresisting man are back on duty (Rambo killed another guy today
> too) and they weren't even *tried*. If that isn't an indication of
> being above the law, I don't know what is.
>
> It is easy for you to point fingers being a Yank where freedom is still
> somewhat valued but I extend a very warm welcome to you to come to
> Britain and see things for yourself.
>
> Until then, please spare us your snide misinformed comments.

Thompson's a Bushist. Talking sense to him is like talking to a brick.

Good Luck!
Rich

On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 10:33:48 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>On a sunny day (Fri, 3 Nov 2006 10:51:38 +0100) it happened "Frithiof Andreas
>Jensen" <frithiof.jensen@die_spammer_die.ericsson.com> wrote in
><eif3fa$5b0$(E-Mail Removed)>:
>
>>No - work out why before you electrocute yourself please.
>>
>>> So in theory it should work; correct me if I am wrong please.
>>
>>Your "theory" is screwed!
>
>If anyone had bothered to look up and _read_ the original article,
>you would find they _do_ use a swicth, take out the flashbulb, and
>replace it with a coil.


snip.

Thanks, it looks pretty interesting. I gathered up a lot of those
1-shot cameras just for the HV caps for a spark eroder I built.
There's a lot of other useful bits in them as well. In many cases,
there's still the AA cell, which is barely discharged.

One warning, in nearly every one, the HV cap still had about 150-200V
on it, even after weeks, It could catch you out, if you are unaware of
this.

Anyway, has anybody here actually tried it as an RFID Zapper? More
usefully, would it damage the cellphone of the idiot user babbling
away next to me on the train?

Barry Lennox

On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 05:49:00 GMT, "Michael A. Terrell"
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote:

>Didi wrote:
>>
>> My point is, however, that technological progress will inevitably bring
>> with itself either a "zero secrets" society or something even worse
>> than Orwells (after all, he wrote 1984, not 2084....).
>
>
> Actually he wrote 1948, but he swapped the last two digits. Check the
>original copyright date.

Quite true, I made a point of reading "1984" in 1984 over the Xmas
break. It was not very accurate, but not a bad read nevertheless.

However, it comes closer to describing Britain in 2006 with cameras on
every street corner, a gross loss of privacy, coppers shooting
innocent electricians then walking free, B-liar shouting "global
warming" as a distractor and a mad immigration policy that allows in
thousands of hate-filled religous zealots.

Barry Lennox

On a sunny day (Sat, 04 Nov 2006 08:27:22 +1300) it happened Barry Lennox
<(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in
<(E-Mail Removed)>:

>Anyway, has anybody here actually tried it as an RFID Zapper? More
>usefully, would it damage the cellphone of the idiot user babbling
>away next to me on the train?
>
>Barry Lennox

This is exactly one of my fears, we will get RFID tags in passports for example.
A new passport is expensive, and I dunno how many times they are prepared
to issue one, and if you go abroad and are not sure the tag works......
Better keep all those things is a metal box or envelope.

You can use one at the airport to zap all passports.......

oops.