Hey, what is all this 'off topic' posting?

I've noticed an alarming trend towards posts that are about electronics,
rather than politics or cooking.

Please, people, mark any electronics post with "OT", so we don't get
confused and start flame wars about the best capacitor or something like
that!

--
Regards,
Bob Monsen

If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has
so much as to be out of danger?
Thomas Henry Huxley, 1877

"Bob Monsen" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news(E-Mail Removed)...
> I've noticed an alarming trend towards posts that are about electronics,
> rather than politics or cooking.
>
> Please, people, mark any electronics post with "OT", so we don't get
> confused and start flame wars about the best capacitor or something like
> that!
>
> --
> Regards,
> Bob Monsen
>
> If a little knowledge is dangerous, where is the man who has
> so much as to be out of danger?
> Thomas Henry Huxley, 1877
>
>

I wouldnt be worried, its just a passing fad ya know.
Just killfile all the "electronics trolls" and they will go away.

--
Regards ......... Rheilly Phoull

"Rheilly Phoull" wrote ...
> I wouldnt be worried, its just a passing fad ya know.
> Just killfile all the "electronics trolls" and they will go away.

Indeed. Works great. Improves SNR of s.e.d by at least 40dB.

On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 18:06:51 -0700, Bob Monsen <(E-Mail Removed)>
wrote:

>I've noticed an alarming trend towards posts that are about electronics,
>rather than politics or cooking.
>

I've been grinding out assembly code all week. There's nothing much to
say about that.

John

John Larkin wrote:

> On Sat, 03 Sep 2005 18:06:51 -0700, Bob Monsen <(E-Mail Removed)>
> wrote:
>
> >I've noticed an alarming trend towards posts that are about electronics,
> >rather than politics or cooking.
>
> I've been grinding out assembly code all week. There's nothing much to
> say about that.

Might I ask why you're using assembler and what the CPU is ?

When there's a reasonably priced high level language alternative I really
don't see the point of using assembler.

Graham


p.s. I've used assembler where there was no alternative - audio DSP chip with
support only for assembler from the manufacturer.

Rheilly Phoull wrote:

> I wouldnt be worried, its just a passing fad ya know.
> Just killfile all the "electronics trolls" and they will go away.
>

I wish the good people at Google would get off their arses and include
that feature in their newsgroup reader.

Mark

"Pooh Bear" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> John Larkin wrote:
>> I've been grinding out assembly code all week. There's nothing much to
>> say about that.
>
> Might I ask why you're using assembler and what the CPU is ?
>
> When there's a reasonably priced high level language alternative I really
> don't see the point of using assembler.
>
> Graham

Here we go, another C versus ASM war.

I use AVR a lot and Atmel is forcing me into using C,
all new ANs are using C.

Than again, the bootloader in C is writing all over the SRAM
section of atmega screwing up my cunning memory backup
plan in process, even when it just checks the pin and jumps to
the reset vector.

With asm you always know what to expect, with C its a guessing
game.


--
Siol
------------------------------------------------
Rather than a heartless beep
Or a rude error message,
See these simple words: "File not found."

"SioL" <(E-Mail Removed)> schreef in bericht
news:eOCSe.66$(E-Mail Removed)...
> "Pooh Bear" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
news:(E-Mail Removed)...
>
> I use AVR a lot and Atmel is forcing me into using C,
> all new ANs are using C.

Rewrite them in ASM if you must.

> Than again, the bootloader in C is writing all over the SRAM
> section of atmega screwing up my cunning memory backup
> plan in process, even when it just checks the pin and jumps to
> the reset vector.
>
> With asm you always know what to expect, with C its a guessing
> game.

With asm you know you will need 10 times more time to deliver 1/10th
of the functionality. Use it for those two highly optimized loops
you need, but for all other stuff, forget it. It's 2005.

--
Thanks, Frank.
(remove 'q' and '.invalid' when replying by email)

SioL wrote:

> "Pooh Bear" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >
> > John Larkin wrote:
> >> I've been grinding out assembly code all week. There's nothing much to
> >> say about that.
> >
> > Might I ask why you're using assembler and what the CPU is ?
> >
> > When there's a reasonably priced high level language alternative I really
> > don't see the point of using assembler.
> >
> > Graham
>
> Here we go, another C versus ASM war.

Not at all. I'm no fan of C. I was actually offered a job coding in C back in 1984 - it was a publishing
application - long before Adobe got into that stuff - maybe long before Adobe even existed ! It was an inhouse
piece of software that took files from WordStar typically ! ;-)

I took one look at C code and syntax and 'ran away' - lol !

To this day I reckon that C / C+ / C++ is deliberately obscure so to as to impress the PHBs.

> I use AVR a lot and Atmel is forcing me into using C,
> all new ANs are using C.
>
> Than again, the bootloader in C is writing all over the SRAM
> section of atmega screwing up my cunning memory backup
> plan in process, even when it just checks the pin and jumps to
> the reset vector.
>
> With asm you always know what to expect, with C its a guessing
> game.

I like 8051s and their variants. I use PL/M 51. It's a lovely language to use but sadly Intel abandoned it. As
easy as Basic to understand but with the ability to talk to registers ( and indeed any other hardware you like
) directly if you need to. Not to mention some damn useful commands that are assembler-like such as ROL.

PL/M code is never obscure. It's quite the reverse.

And then there's the PL/M compiler's skill in using available free RAM to its best wrt to lifetime dependent
variables. I doubt any asm coder could match that !

Graham

Frank Bemelman wrote:

> "SioL" <(E-Mail Removed)> schreef in bericht
> news:eOCSe.66$(E-Mail Removed)...
> > "Pooh Bear" <(E-Mail Removed)> wrote in message
> news:(E-Mail Removed)...
> >
> > I use AVR a lot and Atmel is forcing me into using C,
> > all new ANs are using C.
>
> Rewrite them in ASM if you must.
>
> > Than again, the bootloader in C is writing all over the SRAM
> > section of atmega screwing up my cunning memory backup
> > plan in process, even when it just checks the pin and jumps to
> > the reset vector.
> >
> > With asm you always know what to expect, with C its a guessing
> > game.
>
> With asm you know you will need 10 times more time to deliver 1/10th
> of the functionality. Use it for those two highly optimized loops
> you need, but for all other stuff, forget it. It's 2005.

I sometimes use the 'show code' function with PL/M to see what asm has been
generated by the compiler.

Invariably it produces code that's very efficient and I don't have to worry
about it.

Best example I've come across comes to mind. 8031 with 12MHz crystal.
Interrupt service routine needs to compare 2 x *16* bit numbers and return
a conditional result.

It took ~ 70 us including the vectoring in and out overhead.

Even better. I deliberately sent interrupts at greater than the interrupt
service routine's period. You might expect a 'lock-up'. Not so. Reduce the
interrupt rate and normal service is restored !

Now beat that hand coding in asm !


Graham